Will You cancel Your Upcoming Cruises if Royal Caribbean Doesn't Require Vaccinations

[msears101]

PLEASE READ

 

The thread is a simple question.  Will you cancel your future reservation IF  RCCL has no vaccine mandate.  Stick to that please.  It is a useful subject.

 

The personal attacks and "science" fighting is out of control.  This thread is going to just get ripped down.

 

Onto facts about the issue.   A LOT of the SCIENCE IS NOT COMPLETE.  What the mainstream media is reporting is misleading and sometimes just WRONG.  If you want to share, discuss and debate the SCIENCE go to PEER REVIEWED articles from reputable scientific journals NOT CNN, MSNBC, FOX, WSJ, NY POST, NY Times, and the rest of them.  Try places like Nature, Science, JAMA, or New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Genetics, Journal of Biology.  The latest info (on its way to publication) is often put on what is called "bio archives" (you need to be careful and be sure you can read and understand the information to see if it is flawed, but if you want the latest raw data look there.

 

Please have civility and respect for all people, and please use the sample of places listed above to get your facts. 

 

Good day to you all.

 

 

[cruiserking]

5 minutes ago, msears101 said:

PLEASE READ

 

The thread is a simple question.  Will you cancel your future reservation IF  RCCL has no vaccine mandate.  Stick to that please.  It is a useful subject.

 

The personal attacks and "science" fighting is out of control.  This thread is going to just get ripped down.

 

...

 

Good day to you all.

 

 

Thank You Msears. I think it's very helpful to get some sort gauge from the cruising public regarding this latest move from Royal Caribbean. I hope this thread can stay on point and continue to collect some helpful data. 

 

Jonathan

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, FOXTROT said:

It is illegal to require anyone to get an experimental drug. You can start by researching the Nuremburg Code & then try various government laws. Then start researching various laws against HIPPA & Disability Acts. The Chinese Virus vaccines are still experimental & schools can require them but they will loose when challenged.

You are so far off base I can’t even begin to start with the faults in your comments. 

[not-enough-cruising]

3 hours ago, FOXTROT said:

Do your research & prove me wrong. As long as it is an experimental drug, it is illegal to require people to get it. If the vaccines are so good, what difference does it make if I have it or not? 

First of all, NOT an experimental drug. The FDA has a completely different category for those, none of the Covid vaccines are listed on that formulary.  

[broberts]

3 hours ago, FOXTROT said:

It is illegal to require anyone to get an experimental drug. You can start by researching the Nuremburg Code & then try various government laws. Then start researching various laws against HIPPA & Disability Acts. The Chinese Virus vaccines are still experimental & schools can require them but they will loose when challenged.

 

What prompted this post? I'm not aware of anyone being forced to receive an "experimental drug". Certainly none that has been mentioned in this thread.

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Margaretealexander said:

Sounds like discrimination and a lawsuit waiting to happen. Just saying….

Can you please tell me what federally protected social group is being discriminated against? You have to have that to have a suit. 
 

I’ll wait.......

[xpcdoojk]

3 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Why do people keep continuing to say about what other ships are doing in other parts of the world.............We are talking about American Passengers........you know the ones that butt inline, the ones that that try to beat the system, the ones that don't listen to directions, the ones that don't like to be told what they can and can not do on a cruise........you know the ones at Customer Relation bitching and moaning about any little thing.........

Jeeze, stop the thing, what other ships are doing with non american people onboard.

I don’t think another broad generalization is providing any new information or even context.  I have seen citizens of countries other than the USA do all of the things that, apparently, embarrass you of your fellow citizens.  

 

jc

[Tolkmit]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Can you please tell me what federally protected social group is being discriminated against? You have to have that to have a suit. 
 

I’ll wait.......

 

This is legally inaccurate. You can sue someone for discriminating against you based on state laws just as much as you can based on federal laws. Discrimination, by definition, means treating people differently based on category. Certain states have made it illegal to treat people differently based on the category of Covid-19 vaccination status. Any business that breaks those laws have opened themselves up to lawsuits.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

This is legally inaccurate. You can sue someone for discriminating against you based on state laws just as much as you can based on federal laws. Discrimination, by definition, means treating people differently based on category. Certain states have made it illegal to treat people differently based on the category of Covid-19 vaccination status. Any business that breaks those laws have opened themselves up to lawsuits.

You can sue for anything, that doesn't create a dereliction of the law that doesn't exist. The courts in this country have done a pretty consistent job of defending the private business owner in these matters (see Colorado baker suit)

[xpcdoojk]

3 hours ago, TheHawk1 said:

When you're in a store or a restaurant, you're there for like an hour and you can keep your distance from others if you choose?  Whereas a cruise ship is 7@24 in a confined space, for up to a week, with complete strangers.  Do you think you can really stay six feet apart from other cruisers in an elevator or a bar or that you're not breathing re-circulated air in a restaurant or a theatre on a ship?

 

Going on a cruise anywhere in the next year will be a big leap of faith that all the scientists have everything figured out.  It's not making it any easier when cruise lines want to put profits or politics above their customers' safety.

 

Hotels have elevators too, should they be only for vaccinated people?  How about office buildings and elevators?  

 

I don’t know about you, I am only in close proximity when I attend a show in the theatre.  I don’t ever lay out by the pool, but even there according to the CDC you would be considered outdoors, not in a confined space.

 

So many false or misleading statements for such a short post.

[Cigar King]

3 hours ago, FOXTROT said:

Do your research & prove me wrong. As long as it is an experimental drug, it is illegal to require people to get it. If the vaccines are so good, what difference does it make if I have it or not? 

Since you don't feel like sharing your legal credentials, I'm going to assume you have none.  That being the case why should I pay any attention to your legal opinions?

[xpcdoojk]

3 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

Please stop spreading lies.

That seems a bit strong, but hey... whatever works for you.😂

[CI66774]

On 6/5/2021 at 2:25 PM, cruiserking said:

Thoroughly disgusted by Royal Caribbean's latest decision not to require vaccinations. Just curious how many people Royal can expect to cancel their cruises in the near future if the this dangerous policy stays in place. 

 

Jonathan

If you’re vaxxed, why would you care? Did you care whether other paxs were vaxxed for flu, etc.? 

[broberts]

1 minute ago, CI66774 said:

If you’re vaxxed, why would you care? Did you care whether other paxs were vaxxed for flu, etc.? 

 

Works both ways, why do you care that they care? 🙂

[alangee]

4 hours ago, TheHawk1 said:

Going on a cruise anywhere in the next year will be a big leap of faith that all the scientists have everything figured out.  It's not making it any easier when cruise lines want to put profits or politics above their customers' safety.

You got that right - it's profits and politics over safety. Heaven forbid if there are more outbreaks on ships, then watch the profits sink even more.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

If you’re vaxxed, why would you care? Did you care whether other paxs were vaxxed for flu, etc.? 

Someone's decision to not get the flu vaccine didn't turn my cruise from a carefree experience to a masked, socially distant experience

[xpcdoojk]

Everything in life that is worthwhile is about profit.  There are no cruises if they don’t make money.  If there was no profit, there would be no internet, and we couldn’t read your endless profundities.  

 

Heaven help us if we ever get to a world without profit.  It will be far more dangerous than anyone can imagine.

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, msears101 said:

PLEASE READ

 

The thread is a simple question.  Will you cancel your future reservation IF  RCCL has no vaccine mandate.  Stick to that please.  It is a useful subject.

 

The personal attacks and "science" fighting is out of control.  This thread is going to just get ripped down.

 

Onto facts about the issue.   A LOT of the SCIENCE IS NOT COMPLETE.  What the mainstream media is reporting is misleading and sometimes just WRONG.  If you want to share, discuss and debate the SCIENCE go to PEER REVIEWED articles from reputable scientific journals NOT CNN, MSNBC, FOX, WSJ, NY POST, NY Times, and the rest of them.  Try places like Nature, Science, JAMA, or New England Journal of Medicine, Journal of Genetics, Journal of Biology.  The latest info (on its way to publication) is often put on what is called "bio archives" (you need to be careful and be sure you can read and understand the information to see if it is flawed, but if you want the latest raw data look there.

 

Please have civility and respect for all people, and please use the sample of places listed above to get your facts. 

 

Good day to you all.

 

 

I don't think I personally can answer that question yet and here's why.  My concern isn't the vaccine.  My concern is the mask mandates if any.  I remain hopeful as there has been tremendous progress in the past couple of months in the USA with reopenings and cruises.  

 

Ironically, I also check out these research tools as well.  😁

[cruiserking]

5 hours ago, GetToLivin said:

This negates the big picture though and is only focusing on cruising. If you're truly concerned about only being around vaccinated people, living life in general would also have to create big issues for you, not just the cruise. How do you know the people you grocery shop next to are vaccinated? Or at work? Do you currently go to the movies, restaurants, what about that? How do you know the people you're flying with are vaccinated? Once you're off the ship and on an excursion, how do you know the people you're around are vaccinated? What about those nice tight lines in customs with people jammed together! 😉 My point is that if it's truly an issue of grave concern I would imagine it's just best you stay home, because the truth is, you don't know the medical information of the people you're around just by living life day-to-day. 

The point is when you have been vaccinated you expect to experience a cruise as close to the "Old Days" as possible. But, with unvaccinated passengers sailing as well our relaxing cruising experience will be severely altered by needing to wear masks, social distancing, not having the freedom to explore ports on our own. 

 

By getting a vaccination I have given myself the peace of mind to go about my life without fear of contracting a deadly virus. I also should be able to enjoy an expensive vacation without the trappings of Covid protocols. Instead I am being flung right back into masks and distancing because others haven't been vaccinated. 

 

Jonathan

[alangee]

3 hours ago, shutterbug63 said:

We are sitting tight right now and waiting to see what happens since we can't get a refund at this point. It may be a moot point, though. If RCCL sailings go out with no vaccine requirements and there's Covid outbreaks on board which I think is more likely under those conditions, who knows what will happen with cruises after that.

If there are in fact Covid outbreaks, which is most likely with unvaccinated passengers, the cruise industry will be in even more dire straits than they are now.

[bucfan2]

3 minutes ago, alangee said:

If there are in fact Covid outbreaks, which is most likely with unvaccinated passengers, the cruise industry will be in even more dire straits than they are now.

So shall we encourage them to do nothing?  That will help them get to liquidation sooner.  How about this:  When the protocols are in place, decide if the rules are such that you feel like cruising, or simply pass.

Edited June 6, 2021 by bucfan2

[alangee]

6 minutes ago, cruiserking said:

The point is when you have been vaccinated you expect to experience a cruise as close to the "Old Days" as possible. But, with unvaccinated passengers sailing as well our relaxing cruising experience will be severely altered by needing to wear masks, social distancing, not having the freedom to explore ports on our own. 

 

Agreed. Also by allowing unvaccinated passengers on board, Royal is endangering the people who live in the already impoverished ports they will be visiting.

[cruiserking]

12 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

If you’re vaxxed, why would you care? Did you care whether other paxs were vaxxed for flu, etc.? 

Let's see,

1.) Even though I'm vaccinated I will still have to mask up and social distance when cruising with non-vaccinated passengers. 

 

2.) There is a good chance that unvaccinated will infect each other which could shorten the cruise, cause us to miss ports or both. 

 

3) I won't have the flexibility to explore ports on my own I can only book cruise sponsored excursions. 

 

Jonathan

[RFerrington]

4 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Oh my.  Google is your friend.  It is not illegal to require a COVID-19 vaccine under an EUA.  In fact, hundreds of employers and universities across the country are doing it already.  Will there be legal challenges?  Yes, likely.  Will those challenges be successful?  Who knows, but historically vaccine mandates have been allowed by law.

 

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/eeoc-updated-guidance-covid-19-vaccinations-employer-policies-obligations-and

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/05/authorization-status-covid-19-vaccine-red-herring-mandating-vaccination/

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

[jrapps]

3 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Yes, and I expect to win the lottery this week. 😉

Wait I expected to win the lottery today too.... Can we share it?