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5 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I forgot one other thing my sister told me about FLL cruises. If you are considered unvaccinated you will have to submit to onboard Covid testing every couple of days. A positive test will require mandatory quarantine to your cabin for the rest of the cruise and or being put off the ship at the next port.

The bigger question is if you are thrown off the ship does the country in question have to take you in?  The word limbo comes to mind.

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9 minutes ago, marylander2 said:

Makes me REALLY wonder...

How all of you guys are picturing the embarkation with no clear clue of how many cruisers do have vaccination card, and how many do not?? Are you seriously seeing this to be "first come - first serve" basis for those (measly - no offense) 5%? Really?

It will be DEFINITELY sorted out prior to anyone will even start packing their suitcases. Be it a request from X, or anything like that, but I bet that well before anyone would step on the pier it will be already sorted out, who sails in that dreadful (again, no pun intended) 5% cohort.

This is not your standby airline principle, come on..... People will fly to the embarkation port without a clear guarantee that they will sail?? Are there gonna be fights for fitting in the "5"??? Are you kiddin' me...

 

There's probably a lot more already determined than what meets the eye. The reason? Keep the unvaccinated people in the dark on purpose to discourage them from booking. The website also won't let you add anyone under 17 right now. 

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2 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

I am not sure how they can know in advance.  By not submitting you basically are put into a pool and the cruise lines wont know how big that pool is until the day of sailing.  If its over 5% then they will need to lock it off at some point so the ship can sail.  I am pretty sure the rules will be clearly laid out what can happen if you don't volunteer your vaccination data.  

I am not sure either :))))
All I am saying is that a thought of people coming to the pier and being denied boarding just because they are late to fit in the sacred 5% is hilarious. C'mon, this is not even a train ride, this is a cruise...

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3 minutes ago, marylander2 said:

I am not sure either :))))
All I am saying is that a thought of people coming to the pier and being denied boarding just because they are late to fit in the sacred 5% is hilarious. C'mon, this is not even a train ride, this is a cruise...

The easy answer is if you are not stuck stay stuck at home. 

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Just now, marylander2 said:

I am not sure either :))))
All I am saying is that a thought of people coming to the pier and being denied boarding just because they are late to fit in the sacred 5% is hilarious. C'mon, this is not even a train ride, this is a cruise...

Well there is one possibility.  They could flag your status once online check in happens.  If they get to the 5% that way anyone trying to check in after that will be denied.  Then an email gets sent to all passengers that the 5% has been reached and if you have not checked in and we have not received vaccination status you will be denied boarding.  I assume that number will be reached quite quickly by people not wanting to be denied. This seems to be the only logical conclusion and will result in minimal issues at the port.

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1 minute ago, cscurlock said:

Well there is one possibility.  They could flag your status once online check in happens.  If they get to the 5% that way anyone trying to check in after that will be denied.  Then an email gets sent to all passengers that the 5% has been reached and if you have not checked in and we have not received vaccination status you will be denied boarding.  I assume that number will be reached quite quickly by people not wanting to be denied. This seems to be the only logical conclusion and will result in minimal issues at the port.

This is all speculative... the simpler way, IMHO, would have been to officially ask everyone to provide the proof, and if anyone denies to confirm, then this individual/group is placed in the 5% threshold. Once the BOOKING quota of 5% is reached, then the next non-vaccinated person/group is placed on the wait list, just like it is done normally with the early bookings. 

Simple.

But now we all are getting paranoid about HOW-WHO-WHEN etc etc ..... HOw many of us who booked this-n-that cruise with X are not vaccinated? How many are in a particular cruise?? etc etc etc...

Not really well-thought, IMO.

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21 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I forgot one other thing my sister told me about FLL cruises. If you are considered unvaccinated you will have to submit to onboard Covid testing every couple of days. A positive test will require mandatory quarantine to your cabin for the rest of the cruise and or being put off the ship at the next port.

Heh.  That should discourage the unvaccinated right there. I’m waiting for Florida’s Governor to have a press conference and to declare (whilst shaking his newly vaccinated fist in the air) that Celebrity is violating the spirit of his ban and he will stand for no legal shenanigans to get around it. 😉🙄

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1 minute ago, marylander2 said:

This is all speculative... the simpler way, IMHO, would have been to officially ask everyone to provide the proof, and if anyone denies to confirm, then this individual/group is placed in the 5% threshold. Once the BOOKING quota of 5% is reached, then the next non-vaccinated person/group is placed on the wait list, just like it is done normally with the early bookings. 

Simple.

But now we all are getting paranoid about HOW-WHO-WHEN etc etc ..... HOw many of us who booked this-n-that cruise with X are not vaccinated? How many are in a particular cruise?? etc etc etc...

Not really well-thought, IMO.

It depends on what the objective is.  If it's to make sure that most people are vaccinated going on the ships I say it does a good job of that.  If its to avoid having to go through a lawsuit against the state of Florida that could be costly even if they win I think the rules do a good job of handling that.  The guarantee is that 5% or less will be unvaccinated, otherwise the ship can't sail.  If you are on the ship you will know who is unvaccinated, they will be wearing masks pretty much everywhere.  They'll be tested getting on and off ships so you'll see that as well.

 

They unfortunately can't ask for proof or they are unwilling to because they don't feel they want to deal with lawsuits which I can understand because even if you know you can win the lawsuit it could be stretched out for months.  Better just to navigate around with rules and get cruising. 

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6 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Heh.  That should discourage the unvaccinated right there. I’m waiting for Florida’s Governor to have a press conference and to declare (whilst shaking his newly vaccinated fist in the air) that Celebrity is violating the spirit of his ban and he will stand for no legal shenanigans to get around it. 😉🙄

Yeah me too but if its voluntary I don't see how the cruise lines are breaking the law.  Its not a requirement which is specifically what the law states.  They are meeting the state and federal requirements so they should sail without issue.  They could amend the law but again the cruise lines would probably find another route then either that or just take them to court and let the commerce clause speak for itself.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I forgot one other thing my sister told me about FLL cruises. If you are considered unvaccinated you will have to submit to onboard Covid testing every couple of days. A positive test will require mandatory quarantine to your cabin for the rest of the cruise and or being put off the ship at the next port.

 

This is exactly what happened this week to a couple of people on the MSC Seaside who tested positive during their cruise:

 

"Two passengers tested positive for the coronavirus during routine checks aboard a Mediterranean cruise this week, MSC Cruises said.

 

The passengers, who were asymptomatic, got their positive test results on Monday, according to MSC Cruises spokesman Luca Biondolillo. They were not traveling together on the MSC Seaside. Biondolillo said the individuals and their traveling groups, as well as close contacts, were immediately isolated, and no one aside from the original two passengers tested positive.

 

According to the Times of Malta, the vessel was not allowed to make a regular call in Malta’s Valletta cruise port Monday. Instead, Biondolillo said, the ship made a “technical call” — where passengers don’t disembark — and then resumed its regular schedule with a stop in Sicily.

 

Both passengers and their parties left the ship in Siracusa, on the island of Sicily, and were taken home “by protected MSC Cruises transport” Tuesday, the cruise company said. The ship continued its normal schedule after the Siracusa stop.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/06/09/msc-cruise-covid-passenger-italy/

Edited by SeaHunt
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

My sister and BIL just booked a suite on the  Edge for a July cruise from FLL.  They were told that anyone unwilling to prove being vaccinated,  will be considered unvaccinated, and will have to wear a mask 100% of the time they are outside of their cabin on the cruise. They are both vaccinated so not worried about mask wearing but when she asked how the masking policy will be enforced for unvaccinated, she was told the details are being worked out by Celebrity. She thinks it may be linked to sail cards when you check in and board. This could prohibit leaving the ship when in any port that requires tourists to be vaccinated.  Why anyone would want to cruise if unvaccinated makes no sense if these protocols are in place. 

 

Regarding what I highlight in red:  Because they're idiots and think they can scam their way into anything.

Edited by K.T.B.
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5 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Yeah me too but if its voluntary I don't see how the cruise lines are breaking the law.  Its not a requirement which is specifically what the law states.  They are meeting the state and federal requirements so they should sail without issue.  They could amend the law but again the cruise lines would probably find another route then either that or just take them to court and let the commerce clause speak for itself.

Hmmm. Just thinking about the first complaint by an unvaccinated cruiser that they weren’t allowed to sail because they wouldn’t/couldn’t provide vaccine proof. That’s the “spirit” of the law. 

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5 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

This is exactly what happened this week to a couple of people on the MSC Seaside who tested positive during their cruise:

 

"Two passengers tested positive for the coronavirus during routine checks aboard a Mediterranean cruise this week, MSC Cruises said.

 

The passengers, who were asymptomatic, got their positive test results on Monday, according to MSC Cruises spokesman Luca Biondolillo. They were not traveling together on the MSC Seaside. Biondolillo said the individuals and their traveling groups, as well as close contacts, were immediately isolated, and no one aside from the original two passengers tested positive.

 

According to the Times of Malta, the vessel was not allowed to make a regular call in Malta’s Valletta cruise port Monday. Instead, Biondolillo said, the ship made a “technical call” — where passengers don’t disembark — and then resumed its regular schedule with a stop in Sicily.

 

Both passengers and their parties left the ship in Siracusa, on the island of Sicily, and were taken home “by protected MSC Cruises transport” Tuesday, the cruise company said. The ship continued its normal schedule after the Siracusa stop.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/06/09/msc-cruise-covid-passenger-italy/

I was just reading about this incident and was going to post it here.  What was left off above. and in the article I was reading.  MSC does not require vaccinations and all passengers must wear a mask and social distance in all public areas plus submit to Covid testing every 2 days during the cruise even if vaccinated. This is not any cruise I would want to be on.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Hmmm. Just thinking about the first complaint by an unvaccinated cruiser that they weren’t allowed to sail because they wouldn’t/couldn’t provide vaccine proof. That’s the “spirit” of the law. 

They could but the cruise lines would say if the ship didn't meet the 95% threshold the ship could not sail.  Unfortunately spirit does not equal the text used in the law.  The law specifically states required.  That is not the case here as there is no requirement to give them your vaccination status.  The cruise line has to meet federal guidelines to sail and as long as that is known when you purchase your ticket and they only have room for 5% unvaccinated that means its not a requirement.  Its not about vaccinated or unvaccinated its about can the ship meet the federal guidelines to sail. The person might go to their online check in if they are unvaccinated and you will not be able to check in and you will be notified that the threshold has been met for unvaccinated passengers and they will not be taking anymore.  

Edited by cscurlock
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54 minutes ago, marylander2 said:

I am sorry this is not how I/we got booked for December Millie cruise... We did it through *****, and while the TA had asked me about the vaccination, it was not intended to be entered anywhere in the official docs, he JUST ASKED. I feel that this nonsense with embarkation being denied for those who are late to fill the 5% quota on pier is really silly. This is not even your Jacksonville-Atlanta local flight where you are on a standby and if you are not flying in the afternoon you could catch up the evening flight... How do you imagine families coming from Mannitoba to F-Ldl to sail on Millie and they are told "sorry, our quota for 5% of non-vaccinated if filled already"? Seriously?

There's a very easy solution to your problem: get vaccinated.

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3 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

They could but the cruise lines would say if the ship didn't meet the 95% threshold the ship could not sail.  Unfortunately spirit does not equal the text used in the law.  The law specifically states required.  That is not the case here as there is no requirement to give them your vaccination status.  The cruise line has to meet federal guidelines to sail and as long as that is known when you purchase your ticket and they only have room for 5% unvaccinated that means its not a requirement.  Its not about vaccinated or unvaccinated its about can the ship meet the federal guidelines to sail. The person might go to their online check in if they are unvaccinated and you will not be able to check in and you will be notified that the threshold has been met for unvaccinated passengers and they will not be taking anymore.  

I agree only so far. It is not a federal requirement to sail fully vaccinated. The cruise lines were given a choice. Celebrity made it, but that does not mean it is necessarily in compliance with state law. Mind you I FIRMLY believe that the Commerce Clause protects all of the cruise lines against this purported ban. You are right that it is the text of the law, not its “spirit”, that is important. But since when does that matter to a politician’s perspective, especially one so wedded to the legislation?  Maybe Celebrity worked something out with the state and got their blessing.  Who knows.  I don’t know if there will be objections now or later from Tallahassee, but based on recent history there very well could be. No one should be surprised if there is. Just saying. 

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9 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

There's a very easy solution to your problem: get vaccinated.

Cruise Critic took down the thread in which I believe you responded to my query about Canada's sluggish vax roll out.  Perhaps you can do it here.  Also, I accept in advance your sympathies for the events on Long Island last night.  Go VGK!!

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Posted (edited)

How are they going to handle the people who can prove they've had covid and according to the Cleveland Clinic are just as immunized as people who have gotten the vaccine and do not derive any additional benefits from being vaccinated.  

Edited by cwayne
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4 minutes ago, cwayne said:

How are they going to handle the people who can prove they've had covid and according to the Cleveland Clinic are just as immunized as people who have gotten the vaccine and do not need to be vaccinated.  

 

They aren't. As of right now, the CDC's CSO says 95% of passengers need to be vaccinated. There is no exemption for passengers who have been infected and recovered.

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3 minutes ago, cwayne said:

How are they going to handle the people who can prove they've had covid and according to the Cleveland Clinic are just as immunized as people who have gotten the vaccine and do not need to be vaccinated.  

A great question.  In fact, my husband who had a positive test for the virus (but it ended up being the mildest virus he has ever had, thankfully) has been advised by our doctor NOT to get the vaccine for a while.  I wish that they would allow the blood test for antibodies to be proof of immunity for those who have had the disease.

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Just now, cwayne said:

They might want to look at this.  

 

Who is the "they" in your statement. Celebrity is obligated to meet the requirements of the Conditional Sail Order, which explicitly says 95% of passengers must be vaccinated in order to forgo test sailings and to have relaxed mitigation standards (masks, social distancing, etc.) on board. If Celebrity were to allow for some sort of process by which passengers could prove natural immunity, they would be subject to the stricter standards of the CSO, which they clearly do not want to do. Unless the CDC changes the CSO, vaccination is going to be required.

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Posted (edited)

This study had over 52,000 people in that had had covid.  If I had had covid and gotten over it and my own body produced antibodies then I wouldn't get the vaccine and risk the side effects.  You get the vaccine to protect you from someone who is infected.  I'm sure that things will be modified as it goes along.

Edited by cwayne
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