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Can’t believe the competition did it!


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1 minute ago, jrapps said:

Everyone does know that is is just an expression, right? I think people try to read waaaaayyy to much into things.

 

My facetious meter must have malfunctioned. ☺️

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, sept10dsm said:

I guess I remember when in 1976 50 people died post flu vaccine (out of maybe 50 million shots) and the deaths were considered too many.  and the vaccine stopped.  Now nothing is attributed toe the shot for the most part.  And now no recourse for the unlucky. 

See, this is an example of misconstrued/very OVERLY simplistic and dangerously generalized statement that someone not fully informed might go  "yup! see an example!! Covid shot is bad because that shot was bad!!" without knowing the details behind what ACTUALLY happened in 1976...

 

That 1976 Flu Vaccine was a VERY different scenario than Covid-19 is today. First off, the shot wasn't discontinued BECAUSE of the side-effects but were a catalyst, it was really discontinued because the US government  FEARED that an outbreak of an incorrectly identified "spanish flu" variant (in reality it was a variation of swine flu) was about to spread based on some very severe cases of flu at Fort Dix but  never amounted to ANY outbreaks of any kind. There WERE side-effects, most remember Guillain-Barré as the primary side-effect from this shot.  So the combination of NO OUTBREAKS and side-effects that actually affected more people than apparently came down with the flu, the shot was discontinued. It's remembered in US psyche as a failure of policy, not of the flu shot. But to this day it is seen as the "gold standard" of "failed vaccines".  TLDR: Jimmy Carter and the US government attempted to be PROACTIVE to a potential FLU outbreak and developed a modified FLU vaccine to distribute to the masses to PREVENT an outbreak. Since an outbreak NEVER occurred and there were some serious side-effects (rare, but severe) it was determined that it wasn't worth continuing distribution. HAD AN OUTBREAK ACTUALLY OCCURRED, LIKE COVID-19, THE SHOTS LIKELY WOULD HAVE CONTINUED. 

 

Mind you the 450 cases of Guillain-Barré were READILY identified within 6 weeks of inoculation, out of almost 40 million shots. As a comparison, we have now been giving the Covid shot for almost 7 months and over 2 billion world wide, with nary of some blood clots and a few cases of inflammation (statistically).

 

And lastly, why do people think that our understanding of how to make safe and effective vaccines hasn't vastly improved since 1976? I mean, it took how many years and billions of $ to sequence the human genome in the 90s....it took a week to sequence SARS-COV2 in 2020, and you can now pay a hundred bucks and basically have your entire genome knocked out and results in a week? 

Edited by JMKreno
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2 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

Strangely, since 1973 we have heard “my body, my choice”.  That mantra seems to have lost luster in the current environment. 

Hahaha so true.  

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2 hours ago, gc said:

The problem is, deciding whether or not to vaccinate isn’t a personal choice—it’s a matter of world health....


Yeah if you believe the media.  I personally don’t but that’s my choice.  They have gotten nothing right in the past 5 years.  

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5 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Children are not responsible. They depend on adults to protect them.  Unvaccinated children are at risk.  Please don’t put them in risky situations.  Unvaccinated children shouldn’t cruise this year.  Keep them safe.  

 

Unvaccinated children are at risk for what exactly?

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3 hours ago, JMKreno said:

Hold on, a cruise is not a right. It's a LUXURY. I think being selfish IS ok in this scenario.

 

Why would I NOT WANT TO BE SELFISH about potentially having my INVESTMENT ruined (ie a cancelled cruise) because a covid outbreak occurs from a small group of unvaxxed passengers that exceeds the CDC guidelines? 

 

I got vaccinated and pose no additional risk (statistically) to the cruise line than I had before COVID-19 existed. If you do not feel a vaccine is something you need or want, then you can wait until the time comes that you can cruise without it. Same with immunocompromised (they are such a small subset of the US population BTW that they often avoided this type of travel, and eventually with so few exceptions there will be decisions made on a case-by-case basis). I also have a child under 12 with a cruise planned in October...looks like she'll be covered by this policy or hopefully be offered the vaccine by that time. If not, I will have to delay my cruise. No angst on my part to the cruise line, I want them to succeed and will do what I need to to make that happen so I can get back to this way of traveling. 

 

I think that feels pretty reasonable. These companies need to MAKE MONEY and it's not selfish of them to NOT WANT A DIAMOND/GRAND/RUBY situation all over again. I as a passenger, ALSO do not want this scenario. Yes, that is selfish. 

Well said!  And it is not selfish at all. What is selfish is those who have made a conscious decision not to be vaccinated demanding that others put themselves and their normal life resumption at risk because of their choice. As I have said repeatedly, we all make choices in life. And choices have consequences and we must live with them. Folks can’t sail now because of their choice so be it. They will at some point. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

These same people you are ragging on and their kids have had their whole world uprooted to save the old folks. Now the old folks are ready to party and some of these same folks that sacrificed for them are being left behind or once again put last. Their frustration is understandable, the arrogance and lack of empathy from some of some of the old folks is not so understandable. There is plenty of selfish to go around.    

It is completely your choice if you want to party or not. Nobody is holding you back from doing exactly what the "old" people did - get vaccinated.

 

Just like it was a choice of the "old" people to get vaccinated, it is everyone's choice. Not every "old" person chose to get vaccinated. Do you think concern for the vaccine stopped at a certain age? There are "old" people who also chose not to vaccinate. Guess what, they are also not cruising. My 89 year old mother didn't want it. She is now obviously limited in what she can do.

 

If you feel like you are being left behind, it has nothing to do with the "old" people and their choices. Your choice is completely up to you. But own your choice.

 

Vaccination = Party. It has nothing to do with age.

Edited by cured
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Don't forget to mention that the people demanding everyone get vaccinated are mostly doing so because they feel it will interrupt their cruise. The selfish nature knows no boundary. 

 

No one here is demanding that anyone do anything, including getting vaccinated. Certain cruise lines are requiring it, and others like RCI will make it inconvenient not to, but they aren’t demanding it either. People make a choice. Live with it!

Edited by harkinmr
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2 hours ago, gc said:

The problem is, deciding whether or not to vaccinate isn’t a personal choice—it’s a matter of world health....

 I suppose you think everyone should get their not at risk kids vaccinated for "world health".  LOL!

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5 hours ago, harkinmr said:

That may be medical or religious exemptions which would need to be documented.  That is not children. There is no legal obligation to board children not eligible for a vaccine. 

 

How do you document a religious exception 🤔 

 

Asking for a friend

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5 hours ago, cruiselvr04 said:

Very interesting.  We said we’d never take another Carnival cruise but .....

 

Some of you will of course disagree but I think this is the way to go for now,  maybe at least through the end of the year.  I think cruise lines should take a stance and stick with it, maybe until the end of 2021.  Let people know for sure.  Let cruising resume safety and then later it can be revisited.  While I wasn’t too concerned about unvaccinated kids aboard I think Carnival actually has it right.  Not forever, just right for now.  Let cruise lines start to make some money again and let people who have chosen to get vaccinated get on with it. And then don’t change the “rules” again right before you board.

 

Folks with kids won’t agree but then I’m not sure I’d want to make my young kids get tested ( it’s very unpleasant) or put them in an environment where they might be quarantined. Families have waited this long, a few more months wait is not the end of the world.

 

I've been testing twice a week since Thanksgiving.  It wasn't the brain ticker people think it is.

 

For us, Monday was a mouth swab, Thursday was a shallow nose swab. Pretty much just the ball of the Qtip

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1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I've been testing twice a week since Thanksgiving.  It wasn't the brain ticker people think it is.

 

For us, Monday was a mouth swab, Thursday was a shallow nose swab. Pretty much just the ball of the Qtip

Had only one nasal swab last July when hubby was exposed to a positive coworker. It was deep swab but wasn’t the “brain tickle” that some have described. It made my eyes water and my nose tingle. That’s it. I do think that most of us are babies about stuff like that anyway. We don’t like to be poked or prodded. 

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14 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

How do you document a religious exception 🤔 

 

Asking for a friend

Here is a great article. What I found interesting is that having a religious exemption does not exempt you from all the protocols. It only means that reasonable accomodations should be made but those could include wearing a mask, being restricted to areas, social distancing, testing.  Which Royal Caribbean is already doing for those who choose to not be vaccinated.

 

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/religious-objections-to-mandated-covid-3391001/

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54 minutes ago, cured said:

It is completely your choice if you want to party or not. Nobody is holding you back from doing exactly what the "old" people did - get vaccinated.

 

Just like it was a choice of the "old" people to get vaccinated, it is everyone's choice. Not every "old" person chose to get vaccinated. Do you think concern for the vaccine stopped at a certain age? There are "old" people who also chose not to vaccinate. Guess what, they are also not cruising. My 89 year old mother didn't want it. She is now obviously limited in what she can do.

 

If you feel like you are being left behind, it has nothing to do with the "old" people and their choices. Your choice is completely up to you. But own your choice.

 

Vaccination = Party. It has nothing to do with age.

 

I'm sure the vaccinated folks with young kids would love for you to tell them where they can get their kids vaccinated. Please do tell. 

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2 hours ago, ToroAzul said:

Kids have a 99.99% survival rate.

 

Pools are more dangerous.

OP was implying kids can’t die from COVID. Which is false even with your input. 

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9 hours ago, dominicr said:

So if they can exclude kids then they should exclude anyone with health conditions or anyone over 50.  This is so stupid.  

Those people with health conditions and people over 50 will be vaccinated. Those people pose no risk of Covid to others. Why should they be excluded?

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1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

I'm sure the vaccinated folks with young kids would love for you to tell them where they can get their kids vaccinated. Please do tell. 

All cruise lines that are mandating vaccines are only requiring them for those who are eligible to be vaccinated (I.e. over the age of 12). 

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2 hours ago, bouhunter said:

 I suppose you think everyone should get their not at risk kids vaccinated for "world health".  LOL!

Actually, I do, because we vaccinated not just for ourselves but for others so we can achieve herd immunity. Without vaccinating, there will not be herd immunity. 

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9 hours ago, cruisegoal100 said:

It's sad that Royal Caribbean apparently will be the only major cruise line that will sail from the US without requiring proof of vaccination. Our concern is simply that unvaccinated cruisers will now be encouraged to cruise Royal which could create a less safe environment on these cruises.

 

Although not a major cruise line, MSC isn't requiring vaccinations.  Part of their return to cruising statement does say this though:

 

"Those who are not vaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be subject to requirements such as additional testing, as well as restrictions, which will be announced at a later date. "

 

So it looks like somehow they're going to find out if you're vaccinated. No idea what the restrictions will be. They're starting in August with only 3-4 day cruises. 7-day cruises will begin mid-September. 

 

We have a cruise booked on their Meraviglia out of Miami for mid-October. Not really happy about their decision, but we've been canceled 3 times, flights have been changed and we're looking forward to sailing in their Yacht Club again. 

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11 hours ago, dominicr said:

So if they can exclude kids then they should exclude anyone with health conditions or anyone over 50.  This is so stupid.  

 

Not so stupid".......

 

I posted this on another thread, 

 

..... So for arguments sake, it is believed in America the population over age 50 on their own have reached herd immunity percentages, using the equation you stated.  Those 30 and under, on their own are believed to not have reached herd immunity because obviously many are unvaccinated. The mixing of the two groups, given the age demographic on many cruises, the passengers as one group should be at or very close to herd immunity.

 

For me, here is what I hope and pray is NOT a future problem....when unvaccinated and uninfected gather as a group.....sort of like when kids programs put kids together, and teens naturally hang together.

 

The Covid Delta (Indian) variant is 40% more transmissible than the Covid Alpha (Kent, England) variant.  The Alpha variant is 50% more transmissible than the original virus that hit Dawn Princess.  So now as kids or teens gather, the Delta variant is twice as transmissible as Dawn.  Yuck.....R value could be up to 6!!!

 

Kids don’t get as sick, although some 20 and 30 somethings are getting more severe conditions with this variant, but what I don’t want to see is a knee jerk reaction from CDC if a bunch of people test positive at the end of cruises.  I don’t want to see a repeat of the NSO.  

 

And for for the record, I am NOT anti children and not afraid of cruising myself.

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11 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Everyone (myself included) said they would never do it, age ineligible children excluded. 

Carnival has announced for July embarkation from Galveston, anyone not vaccinated (INCLUDING CHILDREN) will be denied boarding. 
Children also excluded from Alaska itineraries for the 2020 season. 

Is there some reason you can't put the subject of your post in the title?  

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