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2 passengers on first 100% vaccinated North American cruise test positive for COVID-19


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51 minutes ago, dolphin lady said:

I'm confused, I was wondering why they had to be tested in the first place if they showed proof of being vaccinated. Is it they went on a shore excursion and had to be tested when they came back? If it is, is this going to be the normal procedure everytime you get of the ship?


Because it was a requirement of the various ports prior to arrival. 

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13 hours ago, sugcarol said:

I feel there should be a second form showing the vax was given. I have 2 besides the card and feel that is sufficient. I also think if someone who tests positive that had the vax  should have to prove it some other way. I tend to hold up my pants with a belt, suspenders and rope. People do lie and will but it should have severe consequences if they do. I still feel they are taking the testing to extremes, but that may fade away soon. I am not afraid as I am fully vaccinated but worry about what others have done and not done and it cuts short the cruise and have to quarantine. All 50 states have health depts and those vax were not only reported to the CDC but also the state health dept. it takes time to get the verification but is available. The people that gave the vaccine had to keep records and input into a data base.

Prove it "some other way?" Nonsense.

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2 hours ago, ChutChut said:

Prove it "some other way?" Nonsense.

Providers of the vaccine asked people if they had Medicare or other insurance. The vaccine is free but the providers are allowed to charge for the administration, if no insurance than the federal govt paid the providers for the administration. Medicare pays 28.39 per jab, other insurance paid higher amounts. Those payment sheets are  legal documents. The health dept sent me a printout of my immunizations which included both jabs. It took me two weeks to get the printout from  Texas. all documents cross reference to the CDC card. If people are concerned about the fake cards they should back it up with other forms of identification that they got the vaccine/vaccines.

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9 minutes ago, sugcarol said:

Providers of the vaccine asked people if they had Medicare or other insurance. The vaccine is free but the providers are allowed to charge for the administration, if no insurance than the federal govt paid the providers for the administration. Medicare pays 28.39 per jab, other insurance paid higher amounts. Those payment sheets are  legal documents. The health dept sent me a printout of my immunizations which included both jabs. It took me two weeks to get the printout from  Texas. all documents cross reference to the CDC card. If people are concerned about the fake cards they should back it up with other forms of identification that they got the vaccine/vaccines.

 

Two points:

 

1) Medicare papers are likely easier to forge than the CDC card itself.

2) What about people who have no insurance provider?

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And this is why I’m not booking any cruises until this Covid theatre show is over. Of course someone will test positive on a sailing until every country has been fully vaccinated. Whether they get it from an excursion or what ever but don’t treat everyone as a biohazard now on their vacation, testing, wear masks on the ship, piss off mate. 
 

The passengers that did get it were vaccinated and not showing symptoms and now they get to vacation in their cabin and be treated like a biohazard once they get booted off the next port. 

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Both my husband and I got vaccinated, at different times. He is on Medicare and got it in February/March.  I have insurance thru my employer and got it in March.  Neither of us has a record of receiving the vaccine or a charge on our accounts.  The only proof we have is the card.

 

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I prefer to look at this whole episode as positive. Even when vaccinated, we all know there is a chance that we will be exposed and could test positive. This could have happened anywhere from pre-cruise transportation, a pre-cruise island stay or on shore at one of the ports with lower vaccination rates. I have no desire to quit doing the things that I love and am comfortable with the risks of cruising with full vaccinated ships.

 

The protocols followed allowed those positive to be identified and hopefully the spread stopped there. (More could still pop up and there is no way of knowing were it was contracted in the first place). My hope is that this shows that even with a fully vaccinated ship there are still risks, so why would any cruise line allow those who are not vaccinated to board at this point. If there were non-vaxxed cruisers on this cruise the spread could have been a lot worse.

 

Personally, I could care less if someone is not interested in being vaccinated. They have a right to make that choice, but if the cruise lines want to proceed they need to do what needs to be done to protect themselves and their passengers. My biggest concern is the cruise being cut short or being stuck on a ship with nowhere to land. This episode showed that neither of those things happened which makes me more comfortable. If there had been a large group of non-vaxxed onboard, think the fallout would be much worse in the media, etc.

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1 hour ago, luckyinpa said:

 

i like the part where cruising stayed normal after the 2 people were found out. i wouldnt look forward to being tested though. not fun. i only want to go on cruises where theres no testing 🙂

It was normal for most people...some had to quarantine...for a full night.  What the problem with testing?  Its a reasonable request and I really don't understand why anyone would be anti-testing.

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5 hours ago, WarfRatWA said:

No one knows if they passed it to anyone else on the ship.  It can take up to 7days before testing will catch an infection.

Doesn't that hurt the argument of an entire cruise having to turn back?  If people are infected on day 3, they may not show positive until day 7 or 8.

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1 minute ago, KennyFla said:

Doesn't that hurt the argument of an entire cruise having to turn back?  If people are infected on day 3, they may not show positive until day 7 or 8.

Who said anything about turning back?  The cruise lines just don't want a positive on board.  If it happens 1hr after disembarkation, they are ok with it.  Either way, who cares?  Its all about mitigation.  If everyone is vaccinated its less likely an event will occur, and if one does, the protocols will be the far less invasive.

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6 minutes ago, WarfRatWA said:

 What the problem with testing?  Its a reasonable request and I really don't understand why anyone would be anti-testing.

 

The problem with testing has always been the rate of false positive. You might be tested (and not have covid), yet your test result is a false positive and you (along with everyone you have come in contact with) quarantine until such a time as your testing comes back negative.

 

Cut/paste directly from from the USA FDA site: Potential for False Positive Results with Antigen Tests for Rapid Detection of SARS-CoV-2 - Letter to Clinical Laboratory Staff and Health Care Providers | FDA

 

image.png.76818d438b22e1d41d393d00eca6b926.png

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2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Two points:

 

1) Medicare papers are likely easier to forge than the CDC card itself.

2) What about people who have no insurance provider?

No they are not easier, you would have to have colored shaded paper, how would you get that kind of paper? You would have to have someone elses payment sheet, do whiteout and reprint, which would be so obvious it is fake, that is ridiculous on its face. People without insurance would have their vaccine info

through their state health dept. CDC and all 50 states have data bases that can be obtained. I dont care what other people have, but if people are going to scream that CDC cards can be faked then they will need to get off their duff and get backup proof. I am trying to help people, is that so wrong? If so then dont ***** when it eventually comes down to being required. I'm done with you people.

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27 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The problem with testing has always been the rate of false positive. You might be tested (and not have covid), yet your test result is a false positive and you (along with everyone you have come in contact with) quarantine until such a time as your testing comes back negative.

 

Cut/paste directly from from the USA FDA site: Potential for False Positive Results with Antigen Tests for Rapid Detection of SARS-CoV-2 - Letter to Clinical Laboratory Staff and Health Care Providers | FDA

 

image.png.76818d438b22e1d41d393d00eca6b926.png

PCR tests mitigate false positives.  Your cut/paste is all about antigen tests.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, WarfRatWA said:

PCR tests mitigate false positives.  Your cut/paste is all about antigen tests.

 

LOL.. you do realize that antigen tests are what cruise ships are using because they are so much cheaper??? Some lines might be able to preform a PCR to confirm an antigen test but they are starting with antigen. So false positive is still in play.

 

I could cut and paste every cruise line policy, but this is taken directly from NCL since this is a NCL forum. 

All guests will be required to take a COVID-19 antigen test, administered and paid for by the cruise line, prior to boarding and receive a negative result.   Norwegian Cruise Line | Sail Safe | Health & Safety Protocols (ncl.com)

 

You asked what the problem is with testing. The answer is obvious.

Edited by BermudaBound2014
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19 minutes ago, sugcarol said:

If so then dont ***** when it eventually comes down to being required. I'm done with you people.

 

Yikes, I thought I brought up two excellent points for discussion. I didn't mean to trigger you. But I understand your need to be 'done with us people" lol.

 

For everyone else: I don't buy for one minute that medicare paperwork can't be forged. Color coded passports with encrypted barcodes can be forged. Birth certificates with raised seals can be forged. Basically anything can be forged. Certainly two pieces of vaccination proof would safer, but if someone was willing to forge a CDC card, they will forge a medicare receipt.  To suggest otherwise is naïve at best. 

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2 hours ago, sugcarol said:

Providers of the vaccine asked people if they had Medicare or other insurance. The vaccine is free but the providers are allowed to charge for the administration, if no insurance than the federal govt paid the providers for the administration. Medicare pays 28.39 per jab, other insurance paid higher amounts. Those payment sheets are  legal documents. The health dept sent me a printout of my immunizations which included both jabs. It took me two weeks to get the printout from  Texas. all documents cross reference to the CDC card. If people are concerned about the fake cards they should back it up with other forms of identification that they got the vaccine/vaccines.

I'm not concerned about my original CDC card being questioned.  That said, I have also placed into my passport wallet the original prescription slips they gave me at each vaccination.  They replicate some of the info (mfg, dose, provider) but also add more info (prescribing tech, full name/address of administering pharmacy, etc.).  I figure it can't hurt to have some further backup "just in case."

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Posted (edited)

Royal did antigen tests at check-in for everyone sailing on their first cruise from Nassau today. Next week, you need to show up with a negative PCR a test or be denied boarding. 
 

They will also do antigen tests on Day 6 to allow guest to travel home after the cruise. 
 

68B46BAD-6A7D-439C-9B4A-60E7850EC7B8.jpeg

Edited by BirdTravels
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7 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Royal did antigen tests at check-in for everyone sailing on their first cruise from Nassau today. Next week, you need to show up with a negative PCR a test or be denied boarding. 
 

They will also do antigen tests on Day 6 to allow guest to travel home after the cruise. 
 

 

 

Are you onboard? HOw exciting!!

 

Yes, I have read where cruise ships are requiring pcr when it isn't them giving the test :). But, when cruise ships are giving the test, it appears by all accounts, antigen is the test being used. Again, this makes perfect sense given the cost differences.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

LOL.. you do realize that antigen tests are what cruise ships are using because they are so much cheaper??? Some lines might be able to preform a PCR to confirm an antigen test but they are starting with antigen. So false positive is still in play.

 

I could cut and paste every cruise line policy, but this is taken directly from NCL since this is a NCL forum. 

All guests will be required to take a COVID-19 antigen test, administered and paid for by the cruise line, prior to boarding and receive a negative result.   Norwegian Cruise Line | Sail Safe | Health & Safety Protocols (ncl.com)

 

You asked what the problem is with testing. The answer is obvious.

If someone tests positive, I am quite certain NCL will conduct a PCR test to verify.  The last thing they want is false positive onboard.  I am vaccinated, if I tested positive with an antigen test, I would demand a PCR to verify.  if someone is kicked off or has to quarantine due to a false positive, the cruise line would liable...I don't think they would go down that road.  I would bet Celebrity used a PCR test to verify their positive cases.

 

Your argument is spurious at best

Edited by WarfRatWA
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3 minutes ago, WarfRatWA said:

If someone tests positive, I am quite certain NCL will conduct a PCR test to verify.  The last thing they want is false positive onboard.  I am vaccinated, if I tested positive with an antigen test, I would demand a PCR to verify.  if someone is kicked off or has to quarantine due to a false positive, the cruise line would liable...I don't think they would go down that road.

 

Your argument is spurious at best

 

Not so fast. Can you site where NCL has the ability to give a PCR test  at sea? If NCL has a PCR testing lab onboard, your argument has some merit. However; I was under the impression that only Viking Cruise Lines has the ability to run a  PCR test onboard. Please site NCL's ability to conduct on-board PCR test, I can't find verification of your claim anywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Not so fast. Can you site where NCL has the ability to give a PCR test  at sea? If NCL has a PCR testing lab onboard, your argument has some merit. However; I was under the impression that only Viking Cruise Lines has the ability to run a  PCR test onboard. Please site NCL's ability to conduct on-board PCR test, I can't find verification of your claim anywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Who says it has to be onboard...the next port is just a day away.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, WarfRatWA said:

Who says it has to be onboard...the next port is just a day away.

 

Well then, we are back to my original response. In the case of celebrity, a negative test was required to debark in St Maartin. IF celebrity conducted an antigen test on day 5 and that test was false positive, guests would be quarantined until arriving at the next port (2 days later). That is the problem.

 

I would like to add this which does support your argument. ,It appears that viking has PCR lab and royal is planning to install PCR testing labs onboard. I can't verify where NCL is doing the same, but they might be. In which case, there would be less of a problem with testing 🙂

 

 

Edited by BermudaBound2014
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Posted (edited)

Hawaii has the strictest Covid testing protocol. They will accept only PCR and IDNOW. they will not accept antigen tests because they are not reliable because of false positives and negatives. I will never sail on a ship that uses that test for screening. Too much is at stake if the results are not accurate. If they do an antigen which shows positive than an IDNOW test should be given to verify. I do not know if they did that for the passengers on Celebrity, or did they simply repeat the Antigen test. American Airlines at DFW does the IDNOW test that is accepted as trusted by Hawaii. The results are back within 20 minutes and the cost is 249.00. Cruise ships will not do a PCR and IDNOW is too expenxive. The Antigen test is cheap, that is why they are using it.

Edited by sugcarol
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