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New, as of June 17, US Rules--especially Florida!


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9 minutes ago, 3Shelaghs said:

Segregating unvaxed pax in a theatre, is a Petri dish in the making. All it takes is one person with the Delta variant, and boom two days later that one becomes many. Are there enough medical staff onboard to cope with this? Here in Canada, our lock downs were to decrease the surge on the hospitals. How big is the medical unit onboard??

 

 

 

 

If we make policy from Canada we might as well sell the ships to them on their way to the ship shredders. Also if you compare the cruises to Canada then we should not be getting on the ships! We should be home. 

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1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

I think that's the purpose of the additional and enhanced testing protocols......to keep that from happening.

 

I just wish they'd go ahead and declare the ship to be totally vaccinated and save themselves, and the passengers, all of these contortions.  If FL wants to make a stink, let them.  Fight it out in court and let us know how it ends up 3-4 years from now after no one cares anymore.

As has been mentioned earlier that while Gov. D issued an executive order...it has now been codified in state law by the legislature and his signature.  I don't believe he can just change his mind.  He'd probably have to call a special session and amend the code.   Thoughts?

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16 hours ago, cruisingator2 said:

Here is how RCI will handle the Freedom out of Florida. One has to assume that other FL sailings will be the same. 
 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center/getting-ready-to-cruise?dPort=miami

Thank you for sharing this information. It answers a lot of questions for me.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Team Stag said:

This is a hot topic so I'm hesitant to offer a different perspective.  

First, we don't fully KNOW how Celebrity is managing the 5% unvaxed.  It may just be a CYA and place for children / those who can't get medically vaxed.  I would assume, if you are booking with unvaxed kids or have a medical reason you can't get the vaccine; you are on the phone with Celebrity having a conversation at booking vs waiting until day of.  Also, they may be trying to sail with much less that 5% internally.  For all we know the conversations of Celebrity reps reaching out may go like this:  X Rep "Hello, I'm calling to see if you are willing to voluntarily present your vax card at check in for your cruise 2 weeks?".  Passenger - "Per the law, I am not required to show it & I will exercise that right."  Celebrity rep (regards of how many nonvaxed on the list at that time) "Ok.  We understand the law and respect that.  At this time, we are currently at our 5% non vaxed threshold.  I can process a refund for you or your may come to board however there is no guarantee we will have a cancellation.  At that time, we will process a refund for the cruise but will not reimburse any travel expenses.  Also keep in mind unvaccinated travelers will be require to test, mask, {insert all the miserable stuff here}"  Boom.  Done.  And now, the crew only has to worry about kids and handful of medical exceptions vs. a full 5% of unvaxed passengers.  

Second, there is a lot of assumption here that a non-vaxed passenger immediately will get Covid and spread it throughout the ship.  Only 44.5% of America is fully vaxed.  If that is the case, we would have 165 Million cases of Covid in the U.S..  While a cruise ship is close quarters, similarities can be drawn to theme parks / hotels, Vegas, Music festivals / concerts, sports stadiums.  All which are restarting currently.  In fact, Universal announced they are going to full occupancy which means Disney & other parks will too (even if they don't formally announce it).  This is not taking into account the natural immunity people who have had Covid in the past may have as well.  Personally, I am more concerned about being expose to Sar-CoV-2 in the ports than I am on cruise ship.

Sticking with the theme of what we actually KNOW, for all the comments regarding Florida / DeSantis. I will remind you - none of us are "in the room where it happens".  We don't truly know what is being said between the Florida government & the Cruiseline executives.  All of these comments are being based off what is read in the media or conjecture.  DeSantis loves the cruise industry.  He is taking the CDC to court on their behalf.  The Cruise industry loves Florida - the ports, the infrastructure, the tax breaks etc.  While in the media, he has said his new law applies to EVERYONE - we have not seen a reported case of it applying to the Cruise Industry.  No Fines have been placed; no lawsuits have happened yet.  This whole vaccine passport / require to show vaccine proof is a slippery slope and major issue that they are looking at longterm just past this current pandemic.  Even Biden and the federal government have stayed away from it as well because they recognize the potential for abuse in the future.

I think we all agree that the cruise industry wants to get back on the water.  A cruise that has to be canceled due to an outbreak will set back this industry months.  They are going to err on the side of caution vs being worried about the feelings / comments of the 5% unvaxed who may get their vacations canceled.

My final 2 thoughts - 1) The last thing Celebrity wants is to be policing mask wearing by the "5%".  As someone who has a bunch of friends who work at Disney; I can tell you - the most miserable part of their job this year has been enforcing and remind guests to wear their masks / fix their masks.  It will hurt crew morale if they are busy having to deal with the "5%" trying to skirt the mask rule.  2) If you plan on cruising this year, make sure the first things you pack are flexibility and patience.  

I don’t think  Celebrity cares whether the governor is suing the CDC or not.  Celebrity doesn’t want to sail with unvaccinated people whatever the CDC says.   He is suing the CDC for his own reasons. If Celebrity wanted to sail without any restrictions they wouldn’t be looking for a work around.  One large outbreak and that is it for cruising.  

Edited by riredsox
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28 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

If we make policy from Canada we might as well sell the ships to them on their way to the ship shredders. Also if you compare the cruises to Canada then we should not be getting on the ships! We should be home. 

Yep... forever...

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, riredsox said:

I don’t think  Celebrity cares whether the governor is suing the CDC or not.  Celebrity doesn’t want to sail with unvaccinated people whatever the CDC says.   He is suing the CDC for his own reasons. If Celebrity wanted to sail without any restrictions they wouldn’t be looking for a work around.  One large outbreak and that is it for cruising.  

But how will there be a large outbreak if 95% are vaccinated?? 
I am trying to understand the hysteria about the unvaccinating killing an entire ship of vaccinated people. Even if someone sneaks on and gets through all the testing the worst case is many asymptomatic people who were vaccinated never knowing they have something if we trust the science of the vaccine. 

Edited by Stick93
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18 hours ago, CeeeKr said:

I hope the cruise lines will adopt a zero tolerance for any unvaccinated who refuse to cooperate. We've seen an unprecedented amount of bad behavior on flights... don't need to have that overflow onto the ships.

 

I will try one more time.  This time I will be as sweet (obedient) as a maple syrup - life is heaven no matter how much tar they add to it!

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, 3Shelaghs said:

Segregating unvaxed pax in a theatre, is a Petri dish in the making. All it takes is one person with the Delta variant, and boom two days later that one becomes many. Are there enough medical staff onboard to cope with this? Here in Canada, our lock downs were to decrease the surge on the hospitals. How big is the medical unit onboard??

 

Nope.  Vaccines have been shown to be effective against the variants, including the Delta variant.  You won't have large outbreaks when 95+% of the people are vaccinated.

 

BTW, how did those lockdowns work for you in Canada?  Vaccination is the key.

Edited by ipeeinthepool
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

If you choose a cruise as your vacation, and still feel the need for a mask even though you're vaccinated and 95% of other cruisers are vaccinated, then you maybe, possibly, might have chosen the wrong type of vacation.

More often than not, I return from a cruise with some sort of cold. I've gotten used to wearing a mask, don't really mind it. I'm fully vaxxed, but might still consider wearing a mask sometimes on a cruise.

 

For me, a deterrent to cruising might be having to deal with the rule-breakers.

Edited by latserrof
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2 minutes ago, latserrof said:

More often than not, I return from a cruise with some sort of cold. I've gotten used to wearing a mask, don't really mind it. I'm fully vaxxed, but might still consider wearing a mask sometimes on a cruise.

I agree - people should do as they feel comfortable. 
But if you wear a mask you may be confused for an unvaccinated person and get into trouble. This is the danger of the separation of people. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, latserrof said:

More often than not, I return from a cruise with some sort of cold. I've gotten used to wearing a mask, don't really mind it. I'm fully vaxxed, but might still consider wearing a mask sometimes on a cruise.

If you plan on eating in the dining room, then you might as well not bother with the mask.  Because that's 2+ hours a day (X 7 days) of non-stop exposure in one of the most crowded venues on the ship.  
Masking for perceived protection on a cruise is a fallacy.   Cruising by its very nature is a closed environment. 

 

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18 minutes ago, marieps said:

As has been mentioned earlier that while Gov. D issued an executive order...it has now been codified in state law by the legislature and his signature.  I don't believe he can just change his mind.  He'd probably have to call a special session and amend the code.   Thoughts?

You asked....LOL!  

 

Honestly, I think he painted himself into a corner.  What he thought was a law that was going to herald him being a Governor trying to get the cruise industry sailing again by removing the CDC Vaccine restrictions has backfired and is now the biggest stumbling block in allowing the cruise industry to restart safely.

 

The cruise industry represents $7.7 Billion economic impact just to Florida alone.  Last figure I saw stated 80% of the cruising public wants cruises to sail fully vaccinated.  That's an overwhelming majority.

 

NCL and Carnival both have come out and said they'll sail 100% vaccinated, at least for the foreseeable future.  They understand that any misstep with an outbreak on board will likely doom, not only their cruises, but probably the entire industry, for a long, long time.  So, they are ignoring FL's mandates.  They are looking like the good guys in this (something they aren't used to).  The optics of sailing 100% vaccinated plays well.  The cruise lines come across as good stewards of their passenger's well being.

 

The vocal minority in this (anti-vaxers, "no one can tell me what I have to do", etc....those folks)  just come across like they're yelling at the sky.  

 

There's too much money at stake and an entire industry that would be shuttered if they can't sail vaccinated.

 

It may come down to the 11th hour, but I think the legislature and Desanits acquiesce and come up with a stay of the law for the cruise industry and make an exception so they can sail again.

 

As it stands, if they have to go through with the FL/Desantis mandate, we see what the restrictions will be.  Unvaccinated and/or those unwilling to provide proof of vaccination will incur additional charges for more testing, will have to wear a mask inside enclosed spaces on the cruise ship, likely be segregated.  It's onerous, but that's what will happen if there isn't a reprieve in FL for at least 95% vaccinated cruises.

 

The other "gotcha" is turning away passengers at the pier once the 5% unvaccinated quota is filled.  I can just imagine what that would look like on the evening news.  That would look badly for FL, Desantis, the cruise lines, everybody.

 

Royal is stating they strongly suggest everyone be vaccinated.  I can't even imagine what that will look like.  It would be a cluster, for sure!

 

Plus, the different ports will have their own places when it comes to COVID requirements.  So, FL's law won't even come into play with those ports.  I saw even the Governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands wants only vaccinated passengers in his ports.  

 

I just can't see any sailings in the next 90 days the won't have the vast majority of passengers vaccinated (95%+).  And, I think the 5% unvaccinated will prioritize children under 12.  Still, I can't even imagine kids will want to mask up, and parents paying to have enhanced testing on them.

 

Again, the optics for Desantis on this do not look good.  And, they're getting worse by the day.

 

We're 2-3 weeks away from this coming to a head.  Celebrity sails the last week of June.  The FL law goes into effect July 1.  Stay tuned and watch how things shift from the FL Governor's office begin the shift shortly before then.

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9 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I agree - people should do as they feel comfortable. 
But if you wear a mask you may be confused for an unvaccinated person and get into trouble. This is the danger of the separation of people. 
 

 

Why would an unvaccinated person wearing a mask get into trouble?  They'd be following protocol.  

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20 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

BTW, how did those lockdowns work for you in Canada?  Vaccination is the key.

Actually the lockdowns worked quite well in Canada.  Thanks for asking.

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3 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

Why would an unvaccinated person wearing a mask get into trouble?  They'd be following protocol.  

 

Maybe he meant the person would be subjected to glares from fellow vaxxed passengers, and generally being avoided like when one takes a wide path around a homeless person on the streets

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16 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

I'm not referring to mask wearing outside of the ship "bubble". I'm specifically addressing wearing it onboard. 

I still routinely wear mine out and about.  My state hasn't relaxed Covid restrictions yet.  Plus I wear one all day for work, it doesn't bother me. 

My point is, why go on a cruise if you're still uncomfortable about removing it?  The whole point of a vaccinated cruise is so you DON'T have to wear it.

 

No, the point of having a vaccinated cruise is to be in line with the CDC's requirements about following the CSO OR being 95% vaxxed. The CSO included masks but a lot more than that; also test cruises, pre and post cruise covid testing, mandatory shore excursions, etc. 

 

I think it's unreasonable to assume that everyone who is vaxxed SHOULD be unmasked and everyone who is unmasked is not vaxxed. 

 

I work a mask all last week at work and I'm vaxxed. I did it because I had a (non-covid) cold over the weekend and beginning of the week and didn't want to risk spreading it if I was still contagious. This was actually the norm in many countries pre-covid - putting a mask one when sick or when entering a crowded space just to prevent the spread of normal every day illnesses. 

 

I have a co-worker who still wears a mask every day. His wife is immune-compromised. They are both fully vaxxed. But if it helps them feel "safer" and get back to their lives, no judgement. I could see someone who normally doesn't wear a mask putting one on for the cruise when entering crowded hallways and rooms. Nothing wrong with that. 

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1 minute ago, CalTexCruiser said:

 

Maybe he meant the person would be subjected to glares from fellow vaxxed passengers, and generally being avoided like when one takes a wide path around a homeless person on the streets

Of course that's how the unvaccinated will be treated.  And yet knowing that, they still chose a cruise for their vacation.  When 80% of the cruising public wants fully vaccinated cruises only, that should be sending a message to the other 20% about what it will look like for them onboard in the near future.

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We’re scheduled on Equinox on July 25out of Ft. Lauderdale so that makes us her first sailing. I’m hopeful the threat of masks and additional testing costs makes the unvaccinated stay home. Unfortunately what that will probably mean is the ones who do board will be the noisy troublemakers. 
 

I’m hoping that the first time they catch an unvaccinated person without a mask in a public space they throw them into the brig and toss them off the ship at the next available port.

 

I fully support your right to not take the vaccine, but you don’t have a right to ruin my expensive vacation by causing the whole ship to get quarrentined.

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Posted (edited)

Those who want cruises with 100% vaccinated passengers have some cruises to choose from, others who are comfortable with the 95/5% have cruises to choose from, those who are unvaccinated or cruising with children have options 

The debate is unlikely to change anyone’s mind. 
 

Let’s all just find a cruise line that we feel comfortable taking and get back at sea.

Edited by jelayne
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7 minutes ago, Elkins45 said:

We’re scheduled on Equinox on July 25out of Ft. Lauderdale so that makes us her first sailing.

We are also on your sailing and totally agree with you! 

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18 hours ago, MBN33025 said:

I just wonder how unvaccinated folks will be “marked” so that the restrictions can be enforced. Wristbands? Different colored sea pass? A scarlet letter? A sash emblazoning “unclean” across their chest??
 

I would much prefer cruising with a fully vaccinated population and see enforcement as potentially problematic.

 

They'll need to don hazmat suits to keep others safe.

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3 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Those who want cruises with 100% vaccinated passengers have some cruises to choose from, others who are comfortable with the 95/5% have cruises to choose from, those who are unvaccinated or cruising with children have options 

The debate is unlikely to change anyone’s mind. 
 

Let’s all just find a cruise line that we feel comfortable taking at get back at sea.

The debate might not change minds, but I'm sure the onboard experience will.

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8 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

The cruiselines could give a fig about the CDC.  

 

I don't think this statement is accurate. They may not like the CDC but they certainly listen to them. They haven't sailed in 18 months because of them...

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1 minute ago, sanger727 said:

 

I don't think this statement is accurate. They may not like the CDC but they certainly listen to them. They haven't sailed in 18 months because of them...

Actually they have in many other parts of the world.  Just not in the US.  And for a very good reason.  They are the type of environment rich for superspreader events.  And it's been 15 months, not 18.

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Just now, iamaqt2 said:

Actually they have in many other parts of the world.  Just not in the US.  And for a very good reason.  They are the type of environment rich for superspreader events.  And it's been 15 months, not 18.

 

The CDC has stopped the cruises from sailing in the US. They have no jurisdiction in other parts of the world. Ok, 15 months...

 

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