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Protocols for Unvaccinated Guests on Freedom of the Seas cruises starting July 2


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24 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

Post infection immunity is variable depending on a large number of factors — how long ago were you infected?  Which strain did you get?  Did you get a large viral load, or not? What is your own individual immune response?  Are you taking immunosuppressive drugs?  Lots of variables, and antibody studies are showing that convalescent immunity is not guaranteed to be long lasting (3-4 months for some people) and is also NOT as effective as the vaccine against the current variants of concern — like the Delta variant.  Oxford University studied this, and showed that between the two sublineages of the Delta variant, you are 2.7 tI 4 times more likely to contract Covid, depending on which sublineage you are exposed to.  I personally wouldn’t count on it as being “immune”.

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

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11 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Another issue are the families that have already suffered through the disease of covid and have natual immunities built into their bodies now. This is being completely ignored by the CDC. There are enough people that have had covid now & studies have been made that indicate there is no difference between the vaccinations and the natural immunities. But many are so absolutely convinced because it's all they hear is vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. Following certain 'science' and ignoring other science that does not fit their agenda is what has caused many to lose faith in the CDC. Having people pay a different price and/or be treated indifferently is going to be a real issue and it's completely being ignored. RCG is complicit, less than other cruise lines but still complicit. 

Thank you.   Only one 'science' matters.  The recovered studies by the NIH even are never mentioned.  They had a study back in Jan of this year stating the recovered were showing great antibodies and they were hoping the vaccine showed the same.  There have been (although a different illness but shows how the body remembers in not only antibodies but Tcells and Bcells and bone marrow) studies of those that had the 1918 flu and after even 80-90 years had strong immunity.

'

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3 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

Apparently you aren’t reading all the studies.

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20 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Another issue are the families that have already suffered through the disease of covid and have natual immunities built into their bodies now. This is being completely ignored by the CDC. There are enough people that have had covid now & studies have been made that indicate there is no difference between the vaccinations and the natural immunities. But many are so absolutely convinced because it's all they hear is vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. Following certain 'science' and ignoring other science that does not fit their agenda is what has caused many to lose faith in the CDC. Having people pay a different price and/or be treated indifferently is going to be a real issue and it's completely being ignored. RCG is complicit, less than other cruise lines but still complicit. 

And more studies showing more of us had it than we even realized.  

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

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1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

I like what NCL and Celebrity are doing better. NCL sailing with 100% vaxxed passengers and crew and Celebrity sailing with 95% vaxxed passengers and crew from Florida. Celebrity has a great strategy to work around the Florida law. I haven't heard yet what NCL is planning for their strategy but they will be sailing with 100% vaxxed passengers and crew.

 

Neither of those lines will have anyone wearing masks anywhere on their ships from Florida.

Sail with them, and please post in their forums... I am sure they will appreciate your approval.

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59 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

The rule should be if you're not eligible for the vaccine, you shouldn't have to wear a mask

Except that if you aren’t eligible for the vaccine (not talking about kids) then you must have a significant health issue.  If you have a significant health issue that means the vaccine is contraindicated, then you probably should wear a mask more than most.  And maybe wait on cruising and extended travel.  I know I wouldn’t go on a plane or a cruise if I wasn’t eligible for the vaccine.

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7 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

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59 minutes ago, sept10dsm said:

The recovered do not matter anywhere it seems!  There have been quite a few doctors and others including the NIH stating the value of recovered but it's just ignored.  

AMEN!

 

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7 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

Apparently you aren’t reading all the studies.

I've read plenty.  All would be a tall order.  I'm immune.  I'd like to see a study that says otherwise.  Not denying vaccines work, and I'm not even denying that vaccines would be a boost to immunity.  But I already have a "bulletproof vest", so I have no need for a second one.

 

Lots of readings here referenced and linked.  The science....

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-study-finds-natural-covid-immunity-lasts-almost-a-year-undermining-lockdown-vax-push

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

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Just now, poocher said:

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

That’s a great question.  There are definitely studies showing robust immune response for recovered patients, but there are also studies showing that not everyone has a robust immunity.  And they are seeing that when the antibodies decline, they seem to do so quite rapidly— so how do you know whether you are the 3 month person, or the 15 month person?    Even with the vaccine, we have to pay attention to see if and when immune response wanes.  Last study showed at least 6 months of solid immunity.  Hoping we get another update soon.

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Just now, Tippyton said:

I've read plenty.  All would be a tall order.  I'm immune.  I'd like to see a study that says otherwise.  Not denying vaccines work, and I'm not even denying that vaccines would be a boost to immunity.  But I already have a "bulletproof vest", so I have no need for a second one.

 

Lots of readings here referenced and linked.  The science....

 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/new-study-finds-natural-covid-immunity-lasts-almost-a-year-undermining-lockdown-vax-push

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

I wish you well, but I don’t agree with you in your “absolute” belief.  

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13 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

And more studies showing more of us had it than we even realized.  

 

- The Forgotten 20 ++

AND many of the young people with the heart issues are found to have had it. 

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1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

The rule should be if you're not eligible for the vaccine, you shouldn't have to wear a mask

That makes no sense at all. Eligibility has nothing to do with the ability to spread the virus. The idea of masking is to mitigate the spread of the virus. Kids can still spread the virus so there needs to be mitigation among those kids. They need to mask up.

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6 minutes ago, poocher said:

I’m sorry but how do you, or anyone, know for how long?  Not being snarky, I truly want to know how.  At most, the first people infected and recovered have been immune for 15 months.   I am recovered from Covid and got the vaccine as soon as I was able.  I don’t know when or if my immunity will end.  I feel much safer having gotten the vaccine.  It was fast and painless and little enough to do for my peace of mind.

Not going to knock your choice at all and no need to justify what you did - I get it.  Of all the reading I've done, we don't know because it is "novel", so 15 months is all we have.  But there are clues.  SARS 1 from 2003 and SARS 2 are very closely related.  SARS 1 survivors are still immune.  SARS 1 survivors are immune from SARS 2.  Lots of speculation because we truly don't know, but there is a lean towards very long term immunity.  Viruses mutate, generally to be less deadly but more contagious.  The public fear is a mutation will end up escaping the built up immunity to prior variants.  Having said that, the fact that the current mutations have been similar and are I think "simultaneous convergence" - meaning the same mutation occurs independently, makes the likelihood (from what I've heard) of some untoward mutation that kills us all very unlikely [so long as we quit messing with bats].

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8 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

I wish you well, but I don’t agree with you in your “absolute” belief.  

Hmmm.  I feel like I just got waived off with a "tuk tuk".  At least I can provide ample backup to my statements.

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1 hour ago, sept10dsm said:

The recovered do not matter anywhere it seems!  There have been quite a few doctors and others including the NIH stating the value of recovered but it's just ignored.  

I value the recovered as they help us reach herd immunity.

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Just now, Tippyton said:

Hmmm.  I feel like I just got waived off with a "tuk tuk".  At least I can provide ample backup to my statements.

I was trying to respect your opinion, but you go ahead and do you 🙄

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13 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

That’s a great question.  There are definitely studies showing robust immune response for recovered patients, but there are also studies showing that not everyone has a robust immunity.  And they are seeing that when the antibodies decline, they seem to do so quite rapidly— so how do you know whether you are the 3 month person, or the 15 month person?    Even with the vaccine, we have to pay attention to see if and when immune response wanes.  Last study showed at least 6 months of solid immunity.  Hoping we get another update soon.

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

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8 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

It's the Tcells and bone marrow that remember and protect the recovered as well

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53 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

We have no less immunity than do vaccinated folks.  Any statement otherwise is merely a sentiment and not only not supported by science but also is supported by more and more emerging studies. [Props to the scientists actually bothering to look.] That science has been made clear and continues to be made clear.  SARS 1 folks are immune to this day 18 years later.  SARS 1 folks are immune from SARS 2. COVID survivors have a robust humoral immune response. Ad nauseum....I've yet to see any study that says "Covid survivors are not immune to getting it again."  Nor have any clinical trials been done on COVID survivors in terms of added efficacy, let alone side effects.

 

I'm immune.

 

- The Forgotten 20

I have heard expert doctors claim that natural immunity does not protect against the variants as well as vaccine immunity. I wish it were not so but there seems to be a consensus about this. I have not had Covid but am vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine and so far, I feel pretty safe against these variants out there.

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20 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Paraphrased...."Anitbodies wane over time - it's  normal,  I've been exposed to dozens of viruses and bacteria over my life.  If I still had active antibodies in my blood for all of them, my blood would be a thick goo."

- Dr. John Campbell, May 30th video on Youtube.

 

Seems simple enough to understand.

It does indeed, which is why I can’t understand why you are so convinced of your absolute immunity

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