Jump to content

Well, now this is interesting.....Looks like Florida may have gotten it's way.


Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

11th Circuit Court of Appeals has stayed the lower court’s injunction pending appeal.  Opinions will follow. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9799441/Court-stays-judges-ruling-CDC-enforce-COVID-cruise-ship-rules-July-18.html
 

 

Yep  now that it is out of the Florida selected district court, the first round at the court of appeals has gone to CDC. Will be interesting to see the opinions, as well as the other decisions to follow of the next few months/years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

11th Circuit Court of Appeals has stayed the lower court’s injunction pending appeal.  Opinions will follow. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9799441/Court-stays-judges-ruling-CDC-enforce-COVID-cruise-ship-rules-July-18.html
 

 

You'd think that this would be reported in the US media. How much we suck? Seriously.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, POA1 said:

You'd think that this would be reported in the US media. How much we suck? Seriously.

It has been reported in the US media in a few places like Florida.  And the author of the piece reports for AP as well.  Once the opinions are released I suspect we will see more coverage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, POA1 said:

You'd think that this would be reported in the US media. How much we suck? Seriously.

I've seen it in Atlanta Journal Constitution, South Florida Sun Sentinel, Rochester News.  It also happened at 10 minutes to midnight last night, just before the time ran out on the lower court ruling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I've seen it in Atlanta Journal Constitution, South Florida Sun Sentinel, Rochester News.  It also happened at 10 minutes to midnight last night, just before the time ran out on the lower court ruling.

Great timing!😁

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Yep  now that it is out of the Florida selected district court, the first round at the court of appeals has gone to CDC. Will be interesting to see the opinions, as well as the other decisions to follow of the next few months/years.

Yes, it's not over until the highest court willing to hear an appeal has spoken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Yep  now that it is out of the Florida selected district court, the first round at the court of appeals has gone to CDC. Will be interesting to see the opinions, as well as the other decisions to follow of the next few months/years.

The stay of the injunction was issued by a 3 judge panel with the vote 2-1.  It will be interesting to see if Florida demands an en banc review of the stay.

 

The case will still be heard in Merryday's court as it was not a final decision on the suit, this is currently just wrangling over the temporary injunction, not the entire case.

 

It certainly is an interesting case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, nocl said:

Yep  now that it is out of the Florida selected district court,

It's not. "selected". That's how our court system actually works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, POA1 said:

It's not. "selected". That's how our court system actually works.

Well, if truth be told, there is a certain amount of "venue shopping" with any lawsuit.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Well, if truth be told, there is a certain amount of "venue shopping" with any lawsuit.

OK. If you assert that the State of Florida "shopped" its case. . . Where would you expect them to file?

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, POA1 said:

OK. If you assert that the State of Florida "shopped" its case. . . Where would you expect them to file?

I did not say that I had any inside knowledge as to the state’s litigation process, I simply stated a fact. Venue shopping is a common practice.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hard to believe....I started this thread a month ago today.  Never in a million years did I think it would still be active, never mind be sitting at 11 pages!  Goes to show that people still have very strong opinions, both for and against.

 

L.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, POA1 said:

OK. If you assert that the State of Florida "shopped" its case. . . Where would you expect them to file?

One would likely expect them file in the northern district where the capital is located, or maybe the southern district where the most cruise business is located (where NCL filed), not the middle district where they got a judge that grew up in the state, went to college in the state, practiced law in Tampa for his entire career and whose seat on the bench is in the same state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, nocl said:

One would likely expect them file in the northern district where the capital is located, or maybe the southern district where the most cruise business is located (where NCL filed), not the middle district where they got a judge that grew up in the state, went to college in the state, practiced law in Tampa for his entire career and whose seat on the bench is in the same state.

The Middle District is where Tampa, Port Canaveral and Jacksonville are located. All 3 cities are cruise ports affected by the shutdown.  Why is the Southern District more appropriate with 2 cruise ports?  There are no cruise ports affected by the shutdown in the Northern District.  In the Middle District there are 30 Federal District Judges.  In the Tampa Division there are 6 Federal District Judges and another 6 Senior District Judges.  

 

Sure, the AG probably picked the best venue but it's a 50/50 decision between the districts affected by the shutdown.  What certainly is not 50/50 odds was that the case would have been assigned to Judge Merryday.  I don't think even Karnak the Magnificent would have known for sure which Judge would have the case assigned to their docket.

 

Per the US Courts: "Q.  How are judges assigned to cases?

A.  Judge assignment methods vary. The basic considerations in making assignments are to assure equitable distribution of caseloads and avoid judge shopping. By statute, the chief judge of each district court has the responsibility to enforce the court's rules and orders on case assignments. Each court has a written plan or system for assigning cases. The majority of courts use some variation of a random drawing."  (Emphasis added)

 

FAQs: Filing a Case | United States Courts (uscourts.gov)

 

I just do not believe that the "fix was in..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The Middle District is where Tampa, Port Canaveral and Jacksonville are located. All 3 cities are cruise ports affected by the shutdown.  Why is the Southern District more appropriate with 2 cruise ports?  There are no cruise ports affected by the shutdown in the Northern District.  In the Middle District there are 30 Federal District Judges.  In the Tampa Division there are 6 Federal District Judges and another 6 Senior District Judges.  

 

Sure, the AG probably picked the best venue but it's a 50/50 decision between the districts affected by the shutdown.  What certainly is not 50/50 odds was that the case would have been assigned to Judge Merryday.  I don't think even Karnak the Magnificent would have known for sure which Judge would have the case assigned to their docket.

 

Per the US Courts: "Q.  How are judges assigned to cases?

A.  Judge assignment methods vary. The basic considerations in making assignments are to assure equitable distribution of caseloads and avoid judge shopping. By statute, the chief judge of each district court has the responsibility to enforce the court's rules and orders on case assignments. Each court has a written plan or system for assigning cases. The majority of courts use some variation of a random drawing."  (Emphasis added)

 

FAQs: Filing a Case | United States Courts (uscourts.gov)

 

I just do not believe that the "fix was in..."

The fix no, understanding the courts docket and getting a good idea of the odds yes.

 

As my old head of legal used to say the judge assignment and jury selection are the two most important criteria in determining the outcome.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The Middle District is where Tampa, Port Canaveral and Jacksonville are located. All 3 cities are cruise ports affected by the shutdown.  Why is the Southern District more appropriate with 2 cruise ports?  There are no cruise ports affected by the shutdown in the Northern District.  In the Middle District there are 30 Federal District Judges.  In the Tampa Division there are 6 Federal District Judges and another 6 Senior District Judges.  

 

Sure, the AG probably picked the best venue but it's a 50/50 decision between the districts affected by the shutdown.  What certainly is not 50/50 odds was that the case would have been assigned to Judge Merryday.  I don't think even Karnak the Magnificent would have known for sure which Judge would have the case assigned to their docket.

 

Per the US Courts: "Q.  How are judges assigned to cases?

A.  Judge assignment methods vary. The basic considerations in making assignments are to assure equitable distribution of caseloads and avoid judge shopping. By statute, the chief judge of each district court has the responsibility to enforce the court's rules and orders on case assignments. Each court has a written plan or system for assigning cases. The majority of courts use some variation of a random drawing."  (Emphasis added)

 

FAQs: Filing a Case | United States Courts (uscourts.gov)

 

I just do not believe that the "fix was in..."

It's called playing the odds. Is anyone surprised that NCL did not pick the Central district?

 

And as NOCL pointed out most of the cruises are in the Southern District from Miami and Fort Lauderdale.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

The Middle District is where Tampa, Port Canaveral and Jacksonville are located. All 3 cities are cruise ports affected by the shutdown.  Why is the Southern District more appropriate with 2 cruise ports?  There are no cruise ports affected by the shutdown in the Northern District.  In the Middle District there are 30 Federal District Judges.  In the Tampa Division there are 6 Federal District Judges and another 6 Senior District Judges.  

 

Sure, the AG probably picked the best venue but it's a 50/50 decision between the districts affected by the shutdown.  What certainly is not 50/50 odds was that the case would have been assigned to Judge Merryday.  I don't think even Karnak the Magnificent would have known for sure which Judge would have the case assigned to their docket.

 

Per the US Courts: "Q.  How are judges assigned to cases?

A.  Judge assignment methods vary. The basic considerations in making assignments are to assure equitable distribution of caseloads and avoid judge shopping. By statute, the chief judge of each district court has the responsibility to enforce the court's rules and orders on case assignments. Each court has a written plan or system for assigning cases. The majority of courts use some variation of a random drawing."  (Emphasis added)

 

FAQs: Filing a Case | United States Courts (uscourts.gov)

 

I just do not believe that the "fix was in..."

I will also note that the State of Florida just requested that the NCL case filed in the Southern District be moved to Merryday's court.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

It's called playing the odds. Is anyone surprised that NCL did not pick the Central district?

 

And as NOCL pointed out most of the cruises are in the Southern District from Miami and Fort Lauderdale.

Florida has requested the the NCL case be moved from the Southern District to Merryday's court.

 

Usually you would expect the Goverment of Florida to file where its Capital is, the Northern district.

 

NCL you would expect to file in the Southern based upon where its business is located.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, nocl said:

Florida has requested the the NCL case be moved from the Southern District to Merryday's court.

 

Usually you would expect the Goverment of Florida to file where its Capital is, the Northern district.

 

NCL you would expect to file in the Southern based upon where its business is located.

At this point, we really don't know anything until the court publishes the opinions.  It may be that the stay is only long enough for the appeals court to rule on a request for a permanent reversal of Merryday's injunction.  A stay is only temporary in order for a court to examine an issue further.  The injunction has not been reversed or overturned.  Only time will tell what will happen now.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

The stay of the injunction was issued by a 3 judge panel with the vote 2-1.  It will be interesting to see if Florida demands an en banc review of the stay.

You can't 'demand' an en banc review – you can only request, and the Appeals Court decides whether to grant it.  Nor can you 'demand' that the US Supreme Court hear an appeal.  So this may be over.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now we face a highly transmissable variant of covid  called Delta or just the D variant . We understand that children can get impacted as well with this new variant , Los angeles county which is the largest county in the USA for population has just re mandated that all people wear masks when indoors  in public buildings or restaurants /.bars,whether vaccinated or not vaccinated  .Reasoning is that cases are rising & so are hospital admissions .  This D variant is all over the 50 states .  States with low vaccinations can especially get hit hard 

 

 My question is will the cruise  lines  soon  include protocols  requiring masks be worn in  the public areas & or social distancing ? will they decrease the pax numbers in board to achieve the social distancing ?  how will the cruising public respond to any new protocols that are more   restrictive ?  

 

 The case  rise is  over 70%  & hospital  cases   over 35% rise .Similar numbers are in the UK as well 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, nocl said:

I will also note that the State of Florida just requested that the NCL case filed in the Southern District be moved to Merryday's court.  

 

 

Sounds like judge shopping to me.🤣

 

Is there any legal basis for this other than we like the way this judge thinks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

You can't 'demand' an en banc review – you can only request, and the Appeals Court decides whether to grant it.  Nor can you 'demand' that the US Supreme Court hear an appeal.  So this may be over.

You're absolutely correct.  When I re-read my post, I saw that grammatical error and it was too late for me to edit the post.  I had intended to write 'petition for'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, nocl said:

. . . they got a judge that grew up in the state, went to college in the state, practiced law in Tampa for his entire career and whose seat on the bench is in the same state.

It took me a little while to look this up, but this is from the Local Rules of the Middle District:  

Rule 1.05 - Docketing and Assignment

 

(a) CLERK'S DOCKETING AND ASSIGNMENT. On receipt of an initial paper, the clerk must classify the paper as civil, criminal, or miscellaneous; assign the paper a distinct number; and randomly assign the paper to a district judge, a magistrate judge, or both. The clerk cannot change the initial assignment without an order from the judge or the chief judge. The clerk must report promptly to the chief judge an apparent attempt to evade the random assignment of an initial paper.  (Emphasis Added)

 

I will agree that there is a certain amount of 'court shopping', but that is usually done by nation-wide consortiums.  Some circuits and districts are more favorable to the issuance of nation-wide injunctions and will 'shop' which circuit to file in, but that is not what happened here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • Holland America Line’s Alaska Exploration Sale
      • Cruise Critic Live Special Event: Q&A with American Queen Voyages
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...