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Well, now this is interesting.....Looks like Florida may have gotten it's way.


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6 minutes ago, AKJonesy said:

One of the huge issues we are seeing here is the lack of help.  We were in Seward a week ago and the lack of help was obvious everywhere.  The person running the lodge where we stayed said he could not get local help, help in US or foreign labor help.  That was obvious because other than our basic room, everything that used to be open at the lodge was closed.  In fact, we could not even clean our fish in the fish house; we had to go downtown at the harbor.  I got most of my meals from Safeway.  So, I suspect we may see some of this on our cruises and when you consider the vast numbers of people disembarking for a short port day, everyone should exercise patience.  

I keep hearing the "lack of help" and seeing "hiring" signs all over the place.  I keep wondering where all of the previous workers are going? Anyone else asking the same question?  

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18 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

They may not be completely unlikely but they are HIGHLY unlikely at this point.........

 

"Highly unlikely?"  I wish I could share your optimism.   If a foreign country demands vaccinations, no one will be allowed to step foot on a HAL ship unless they ae vaccinated.  Recently, an RCL ship in which several of its crew members tested positive, cancelled its July 1st cruise and required quarantine of its crew.  Another RCL ship had to intervene with Bermudian authorities when two of their passengers tested positive.  

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1 minute ago, silversneakers said:

I keep hearing the "lack of help" and seeing "hiring" signs all over the place.  I keep wondering where all of the previous workers are going? Anyone else asking the same question?  

In Alaska, we have a shortage because we are a large tourism state and we have a lot of foreign seasonal workers.  However, we know many businesses owners that do not own seasonal businesses and the workers were all from AK.   It is the same story, the state and federal governments incentivized people to stay home with big unemployment checks that exceeded their pay.  Finally, AK stopped the additional bump as did some other states, but I think it's far too late for some businesses now that will never reopen.  IMHO, this is what happens when the government gets involved.  

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11 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

"Highly unlikely?"  I wish I could share your optimism.   If a foreign country demands vaccinations, no one will be allowed to step foot on a HAL ship unless they ae vaccinated.  Recently, an RCL ship in which several of its crew members tested positive, cancelled its July 1st cruise and required quarantine of its crew.  Another RCL ship had to intervene with Bermudian authorities when two of their passengers tested positive.  

The ship in Bermuda was not RCL. Viking Orion.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

There is a point of law, not sure whether it involves constitutionality or not, but the judge questioned the following phrase, from 42 USC 264 (note, USC not CFR):

 

" the Surgeon General may provide for such inspection, fumigation, disinfection, sanitation, pest extermination, destruction of animals or articles found to be so infected or contaminated as to be sources of dangerous infection to human beings, and other measures, as in his judgment may be necessary."

 

He states that the phrase "and other measures" only applies to the preceding 6 actions (inspection, fumigation, disinfection, sanitation, pest extermination, destruction of animals or articles).  I find it hard to believe that the framers of this law would go to include a following phrase of "and other measures" if those measures only referred to 6 previously specified measures.  The framers were looking at the long picture, and knowing that what was a threat at the time the law was passed would not necessarily be the only threats in the future.  It also seems to me that most of the CSO requirements fall under one or more of the 6 measures, especially as how those measures are to be carried out are not specified.

Interesting, "and other matters" seems to be a very broad granting of jurisdiction that the judge in this case is either ignoring or substituting his judgement for those with medical rather than law degrees.

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1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

"Highly unlikely?"  I wish I could share your optimism.   If a foreign country demands vaccinations, no one will be allowed to step foot on a HAL ship unless they ae vaccinated.  Recently, an RCL ship in which several of its crew members tested positive, cancelled its July 1st cruise and required quarantine of its crew.  Another RCL ship had to intervene with Bermudian authorities when two of their passengers tested positive.  

"or the refusal of a country to allow anyone from the ship to disembark; or for possible quarantine aboard ship.  In those possible events, which are not completely unlikely" 

 

That's what I was referring to, not whether or not there will be positive test results or not.  I don't think we will see whole ships quarantined or unable to disembark. There were 8 crew members on the Odyssey with positive results, no symptoms, also no passengers on the ship.   I want to be as optimistic as possible with the realization that there will be bumps in the road along the way.

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2 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

In Alaska, we have a shortage because we are a large tourism state and we have a lot of foreign seasonal workers.  However, we know many businesses owners that do not own seasonal businesses and the workers were all from AK.   It is the same story, the state and federal governments incentivized people to stay home with big unemployment checks that exceeded their pay.  Finally, AK stopped the additional bump as did some other states, but I think it's far too late for some businesses now that will never reopen.  IMHO, this is what happens when the government gets involved.  

 

There are also many, many tourism, fast food, restaurant and convenience store workers who don't want to get COVID from work, many workers who went elsewhere to get a better paying job, or don't want to get assaulted because someone doesn't want to wear a mask in the place of business.

 

L.

 

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2 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

One of the huge issues we are seeing here is the lack of help.  We were in Seward a week ago and the lack of help was obvious everywhere.  The person running the lodge where we stayed said he could not get local help, help in US or foreign labor help.  That was obvious because other than our basic room, everything that used to be open at the lodge was closed.  In fact, we could not even clean our fish in the fish house; we had to go downtown at the harbor.  I got most of my meals from Safeway.  So, I suspect we may see some of this on our cruises and when you consider the vast numbers of people disembarking for a short port day, everyone should exercise patience.  

We were in Seward June 6-8.  Harbor was busy.  Lack of ability to get employees very obvious.  Best Western indicated that normally they would have 25 workings of temporary visas. this year 6. Many restaurants operating with reduced hours due to lack of staff.  Same in Homer (have relatives there) and Anchorage.

 

 

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2 hours ago, AKJonesy said:

In Alaska, we have a shortage because we are a large tourism state and we have a lot of foreign seasonal workers.  However, we know many businesses owners that do not own seasonal businesses and the workers were all from AK.   It is the same story, the state and federal governments incentivized people to stay home with big unemployment checks that exceeded their pay.  Finally, AK stopped the additional bump as did some other states, but I think it's far too late for some businesses now that will never reopen.  IMHO, this is what happens when the government gets involved.  

 

We have the same problem in Florida, well pretty much everywhere else too.  On a recent road trip to Gatlinburg, every single business we stopped in along the way had help wanted signs, hotels, restaurants, shops, truck on the road. No applications in my place of business (a resort) for over 8 months.  Suddenly last week when the extra $$ were cut off we had 3 the first day.  Coincidence?  I don't think so.

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4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There is a point of law, not sure whether it involves constitutionality or not, but the judge questioned the following phrase, from 42 USC 264 (note, USC not CFR):

 

" the Surgeon General may provide for such inspection, fumigation, disinfection, sanitation, pest extermination, destruction of animals or articles found to be so infected or contaminated as to be sources of dangerous infection to human beings, and other measures, as in his judgment may be necessary."

 

He states that the phrase "and other measures" only applies to the preceding 6 actions (inspection, fumigation, disinfection, sanitation, pest extermination, destruction of animals or articles).  I find it hard to believe that the framers of this law would go to include a following phrase of "and other measures" if those measures only referred to 6 previously specified measures.  The framers were looking at the long picture, and knowing that what was a threat at the time the law was passed would not necessarily be the only threats in the future.  It also seems to me that most of the CSO requirements fall under one or more of the 6 measures, especially as how those measures are to be carried out are not specified.

He specifically questioned the broad expanse of measures of the CSO and that they ‘strartingly’ go beyond the types of measures 1 through 6.

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I was going to cruise from FL in late summer. With the new ruling that cruise lines can't require  passengers to provide proof of vaccination, I will reluctantly suspend my plans. With a variant Covid making its way through the US, it's too chancy to be enveloped by people who are not vaccinated. Will wait to see what transpires at other ports around the country.

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5 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Not sure I would agree - it seems to me that X has made it fairly expensive and restrictive to cruise on them if not vacinated (a good approach IMO).  Should accomplish the same thing.

 

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Posted (edited)

The way I understand it, they are still adhering to the 95% vaccination guideline. If you opt not to provide them proof, they automatically put you in the 5% allotment for unvaccinated guests, which of course means you must follow the additional protocols and might not be able to sail if the 5% is full. 

Edited by MTAK
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I’m assuming that a person could cancel at this late date and have their money refunded if they only want a 100% vaccinated cruise, as those were the terms when they booked.

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11 minutes ago, mckgreg said:

I’m assuming that a person could cancel at this late date and have their money refunded if they only want a 100% vaccinated cruise, as those were the terms when they booked.

You'd have to check your cruise contract.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, MTAK said:

The way I understand it, they are still adhering to the 95% vaccination guideline. If you opt not to provide them proof, they automatically put you in the 5% allotment for unvaccinated guests, which of course means you must follow the additional protocols and might not be able to sail if the 5% is full. 

 

And it will cost you extra $$ if not vaccinated.  I like the way they are doing this.  If you "voluntarily" show your vaccine card, you're good to go, if not, you are assumed unvaccinated and must follow ALL those protocols they list and pay somewhere around $150 per person for the testing that has to be done.  Don't think it applies to young children, but not sure.  Works for me.

Edited by Gracie115
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20 minutes ago, mckgreg said:

I’m assuming that a person could cancel at this late date and have their money refunded if they only want a 100% vaccinated cruise, as those were the terms when they booked.

Were any of the Florida departures booked as 100% vaccinated?

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4 hours ago, fred101 said:

I was going to cruise from FL in late summer. With the new ruling that cruise lines can't require  passengers to provide proof of vaccination, I will reluctantly suspend my plans. With a variant Covid making its way through the US, it's too chancy to be enveloped by people who are not vaccinated. Will wait to see what transpires at other ports around the country.

You are connecting two separate issues.  The recent Federal Court ruling solely relates to how much overreach the CDC has had in shutting down cruising.  The second issue is the Florida law preventing 'immunization discrimination.'  The cruise industry will probably need to fight this issue out with Florida.  The two issues are not connected.

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On 6/18/2021 at 5:57 PM, leerathje said:

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2021/06/16/court-rules-on-cruise-industry-restrictions

 

On the news this morning, there was an "on-board" report from the Celebrity Edge which had just set sail. Many in masks.  I also read that unvaccinated passengers on cruises will have to segregate in certain areas, be tested etc. 

Why not just get the damn shot?

 

 

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2 hours ago, LynnTTT said:

On the news this morning, there was an "on-board" report from the Celebrity Edge which had just set sail. Many in masks.  I also read that unvaccinated passengers on cruises will have to segregate in certain areas, be tested etc. 

Why not just get the damn shot?

 

 

All crew were vaccinated on the Edge and 99% of the passengers were. I’m looking forward to hearing the reports from the reporter on board.  Love the send off by the only female captain on the major cruise lines here 🙂 

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On 6/21/2021 at 2:14 PM, kelleherdl said:

He specifically questioned the broad expanse of measures of the CSO and that they ‘strartingly’ go beyond the types of measures 1 through 6.

And, in an interesting development, SCOTUS has upheld the CDC eviction moratorium, so a majority, including Chief Justice Roberts, feel it is not an "overreach" of power.  Could be a key for whether the CDC appeals the Florida case.

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