Freedom Venues Vaccinated/Unvaccinated Rules Spelled Out

[3kidsncats]

41 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

 

Yes, it was fully paid and canceled a couple of weeks before sailing.  They gave us the option of our money back or 125% of the fare as a FCC.  The rest of my family all cashed out, I was the only one to take the FCC.  I have to book passage by 12/31 for sailings by April 2022 or I lose it, so I only have 6 months left to book something (less actually, but that's because of other things unrelated to RCL) or cash out the original fare paid.  I had fully intended to sail as soon as it was possible to do so, but if I'm either going to have to wear a mask all week despite being both recovered from COVID and fully vaccinated or fly to another departure port in order to sail mask-free, I'm out.  I could theoretically walk to Port Canaveral, it's a little frustrating to be faced with hundreds (if not over a thousand) in R/T airfare to get to Seattle or Nassau to sail from there instead.  That's not worth the 25% bump from the FCC - I'll just cash out and go to Vegas instead.

So, you’re willing to fly to Vegas?  But not a cruise port?  Your vacation, your money, your choice…but the logic escaped me as soon as you brought Vegas into the equation 

[OSUZorba]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

RCI does not need to jump through the hoops that it is in Florida. Celebrity just set sail from FLL with 99% vaccinated passengers and voluntary submission of vaccination proof. No problem with Florida government. Carnival will be proceeding with a similar plan. No less than 95% vaccinated.  RCI made a choice to welcome a larger percentage of unvaccinated passengers, including adults, thereby creating discomfort for both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers.  Their call, and not the right one given the overall reaction. 

What do the other lines do if someone refuses to provide proof?

[3kidsncats]

So after reviewing the guidelines, I’m really glad we are booked on AOS with a much more relaxed set of protocols.  And less likely to have fights break out / unruly behavior over adherence to the protocols.  I also, personally, wouldn’t take one of my kids (if they were still kids) on a cruise if they were unvaccinated.  One of the things I’ve been grateful for the past 16 months — my kids are now all officially adults and I didn’t have to make stressful decisions for them.  I feel for all the parents in this position cuz it can’t be easy (and I’m not just talking about vacations).
 

I do think the effort was made to choose very adult oriented venues for their designated “vaccinated cruisers”.  I also think those venues are going to be VERY crowded, if they have a primarily vaccinated cruise, ie, majority of adults are vaccinated.  I know I wouldn’t be choosing to go to a bar that required masking — I’d pick the mask free option.  They may have to adjust this list based on each sailing and how many adults fit in each category.

 

 

[OSUZorba]

2 hours ago, sunshinetricia said:

I'm probably very cynical after the last year, but what are the chances they actually enforce all of this? I've been to Disney a handful of times in the last year and although they are one of the best at enforcement, we still saw SO MANY instances where people didn't follow the rules. Plus look at all of the videos online of people freaking out because someone tried to enforce the rules on them. I'm a MAJOR rule follower, so I always get agitated when I see people breaking rules--especially during covid because the stakes are so high. I don't think I could handle being on a ship like this with so many rules and then watching people break them the whole time. It would completely ruin the vacation for me because I would just be irritated the whole time over the lack of rule enforcement (which is why I am sailing on Adventure where there aren't as many rules. lol) 

You must be my brother/sister of another mother ;).

[pcur]

3 hours ago, Evilgrin72 said:

Vaccinated cruisers probably aren't going to sail knowing they have to wear a mask on 70% of the ship.  They'll probably hop over to a line that is sailing at 95% or that doesn't require a mask. 

No, I won't do this.  I have no problem wearing a mask where required. I still wear a mask at inside venues here in No CA, and probably will until children are able to be vaccinated in the Fall.  I don't want to take ANY chance of carrying the virus to someone else.  When they are not "still studying", or children are vaccinated, I will stop.

 

I still wear a mask at the grocery store, because there are likely to be unvaccinated adults and children there.  I'm visiting my unvaccinated grand-toddlers in a little over 3 weeks, so I'm not taking any chances of taking the virus to them.  Wearing a mask until it's all safe.  

Edited June 28, 2021 by pcur

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, OSUZorba said:

What do the other lines do if someone refuses to provide proof?

If you arrive at the port and refuse or cannot provide proof you are classified as "unvaccinated" and placed in that pool of passengers, which is not to exceed 5%.  If the unvaccinated pool is full, you risk being turned away at the port.  If you are allowed to board, you are subject to the unvaccinated protocols, which include COVID testing before, during and after the cruise, masks and restricted shore excursions.  

[Evilgrin72]

20 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

So, you’re willing to fly to Vegas?  But not a cruise port?  Your vacation, your money, your choice…but the logic escaped me as soon as you brought Vegas into the equation 

I'm willing to fly, period.  But it's tough to stomach flying to a cruise port when I already have one in my backyard.  Plus, I get comped rooms in Vegas, so if I'm going to have to fly regardless, I'd rather take the free room, cash out my FCC and have my spending money for the week taken care of.  Just a personal preference.  I cruise a lot because it doesn't require the time, effort and cost of airfare - if I have to add that into the mix anyway, I'd just as soon take a land-based vacation and go back to cruising later on when (hopefully) all this is over. 

[3kidsncats]

9 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

I'm willing to fly, period.  But it's tough to stomach flying to a cruise port when I already have one in my backyard.  Plus, I get comped rooms in Vegas, so if I'm going to have to fly regardless, I'd rather take the free room, cash out my FCC and have my spending money for the week taken care of.  Just a personal preference.  I cruise a lot because it doesn't require the time, effort and cost of airfare - if I have to add that into the mix anyway, I'd just as soon take a land-based vacation and go back to cruising later on when (hopefully) all this is over. 

I have a port within an hour driving distance but it gets old only cruising from there, so it’s never been a thing for me.  But Vegas is pretty open right now -  we just got back from there yesterday.  

[Evilgrin72]

7 minutes ago, 3kidsncats said:

I have a port within an hour driving distance but it gets old only cruising from there, so it’s never been a thing for me.  But Vegas is pretty open right now -  we just got back from there yesterday.  

 

I've been to most of the Caribbean islands by now - I used to cruise from Miami, San Juan, Tampa, New Orleans, New York - wherever I could get to new places, but now that I've been to pretty much all of them, I tend to just cruise from wherever is the most convenient.  For the last few years, that's been PC.  There's nothing better than getting off the ship at 9 and being home by 9:30, unpacked and clothes in the washer, with a whole day in front of me with no airports, trams, long drives home, etc.

 

I just got back from Vegas last week - agreed, it is WIDE open.  I think the only time I had to wear a mask was at Omega Mart, otherwise, it was a free-for-all.  The biggest problem I saw was the inability to staff up to the point where all the venues could open and operate on regular schedules.

[nelblu]

4 hours ago, Evilgrin72 said:

Woof.  WAY too many venues accessible to un-vaccinated passengers, I'd be forced to wear a mask for at least half the cruise.  0% chance I book under these auspices. The rules and regs are in such flux right now that I haven't lost hope, but they've got about 2-3 months to get something better than this together or I'm cashing in my FCC for $$.

I'm on the opposite side.  I've got 4 cabins on upcoming Easter Anthem cruise and based on Bayley's recent comments we wont be able to cruise as I have a granddaughters in 3 of the cabins.  Bayonne, based on his comments, will be 100% vaxxed except for those under 12.  They are afraid of the jab and wont be able to cruise.  I've got FCCs for this cruise, plus additional amounts of excess FCCs.  If these protocols are in place, the FCCs are useless and like you, would like them converted into refunds to be used on a land vacation.

[nelblu]

15 minutes ago, Evilgrin72 said:

I just got back from Vegas last week - agreed, it is WIDE open.  I think the only time I had to wear a mask was at Omega Mart, otherwise, it was a free-for-all.  The biggest problem I saw was the inability to staff up to the point where all the venues could open and operate on regular schedules.

Like wise in Atlantic City.  Been there 3 times this past month and there signs that no mask for the vaccinated and,  masks for non.  However, there's no checking and simply on the honor system.

[RFerrington]

Good luck with converting the FCC's to cash.  I believe the only way that can be done is if the FCC's were eligible to be cash refunds, originally.  I truly hope you are successful.  I have not been so lucky.  Over $10K of them now.

[nelblu]

2 minutes ago, RFerrington said:

Good luck with converting the FCC's to cash.  I believe the only way that can be done is if the FCC's were eligible to be cash refunds, originally.  I truly hope you are successful.  I have not been so lucky.  Over $10K of them now.

I have about $8k of FCCS.  In NJ we have good consumer protection laws.  Also, the circumstances are quite different, as RCL is preventing you from cruising.

[Tolkmit]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You may want to look up the definition of "discrimination", because this is not it.

 

Might want to take your own advice.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination

"the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually."

 

This is, by definition, discrimination. It's treating people differently based on the category they are in, unvaccinated, not based on any individual attribute. It's just not discriminating against a protected class, (ie race), therefore it is completely legal. Discrimination is not inherently wrong, despite the negative connotation many between assume to be meant anytime the word is used.

[ronandcarla]

3 hours ago, sunshinetricia said:

I'm probably very cynical after the last year, but what are the chances they actually enforce all of this? I've been to Disney a handful of times in the last year and although they are one of the best at enforcement, we still saw SO MANY instances where people didn't follow the rules. Plus look at all of the videos online of people freaking out because someone tried to enforce the rules on them. I'm a MAJOR rule follower, so I always get agitated when I see people breaking rules--especially during covid because the stakes are so high. I don't think I could handle being on a ship like this with so many rules and then watching people break them the whole time. It would completely ruin the vacation for me because I would just be irritated the whole time over the lack of rule enforcement (which is why I am sailing on Adventure where there aren't as many rules. lol) 

Look at the outbreaks that have happened on airplanes; cruise folks always have broken the rules and nobody from RCCL have ever enforced the rules.  I would think in a matter of a few weeks when they open up allowing more passengers to board some ugly situations are going to happen bc the folks who think "they are taking away more freedoms and rights" (I'm still searching for what I'm missing) will cause some trouble by folks who want the rules enforced.  I sure hope by March we'll be back to saving lounges and seats in the lounges and not having to worry about Covid 19.

[Russ Lomas]

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

[Evilgrin72]

5 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

 

This is the first time most of us have seen any specifics.  If it changes, great.  As it is.... not great. 

 

Frankly, I'm unconcerned how it plays out once they actually sail.  BEST case scenario is that everyone follows the rules as laid out and there's no acrimony between passengers or between passengers and staff.  That's what I hope for, but it doesn't change the fact that in most of the bars/lounges and any time I'm passing between venues, walking in the promenade, on the elevators, etc, that I'm going to have to wear a mask.  Hard pass from me.  YMMV.

[not-enough-cruising]

26 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Might want to take your own advice.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination

"the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually."

 

This is, by definition, discrimination. It's treating people differently based on the category they are in, unvaccinated, not based on any individual attribute. It's just not discriminating against a protected class, (ie race), therefore it is completely legal. Discrimination is not inherently wrong, despite the negative connotation many between assume to be meant anytime the word is used.

By the Webster definition there must be a "discriminating" act

 

Webster defines "discriminating" as the practice of unfairly treating a person or group of people differently from other people or groups of people. : the ability to recognize the difference between things that are of good quality and those that are not.

 

In my opinion there is nothing "unfair" about Royal's policy, therefore there is no "discrimination"

[kearney]

5 hours ago, orville99 said:

Depending on how well these protocols work out on Freedom's July sailings, we may see them adopted across the fleet as new ships come on line. The more they get publicized, the less likely non-vaccinated passengers will be on board.

The problem with this...is that many vaccinated won't sail if they have to wear masks in most areas of the ship ..like hallways, the promenade deck, inside shops...etc. So they may lose..not just unvaccinated..but vaccinated as well.... especially since there are other options for vaccinated.. eg Celebrity and other lines. Unvaccinated have few choices..if they want to cruise.

 

Now what will be interesting is what happens with the CDC-Florida case... will people be afraid to cruise if ...say..as an example.. the CDC were to come out and say... well vaccinated don't have to wear masks even on sailings with ... say... 50% not vaccinated. What will people think of a dramatic change like that? It will be a few weeks before we have any idea on what the CDC or court will do next...

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, Evilgrin72 said:

For the last few years, that's been PC.  There's nothing better than getting off the ship at 9 and being home by 9:30, unpacked and clothes in the washer, with a whole day in front of me with no airports, trams, long drives home, etc.

 

No doubt about that, I have cruised from PC from my Inlaws Condo in New Smyrna Beach....although that takes about an hour.  But it is a nice feeling...

[PTC DAWG]

21 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

I agree, we are booked on Allure in Sept,  fully vaccinated, hoping for the best.  

[cured]

4 hours ago, harkinmr said:

RCI does not need to jump through the hoops that it is in Florida. Celebrity just set sail from FLL with 99% vaccinated passengers and voluntary submission of vaccination proof. No problem with Florida government. Carnival will be proceeding with a similar plan. No less than 95% vaccinated.  RCI made a choice to welcome a larger percentage of unvaccinated passengers, including adults, thereby creating discomfort for both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers.  Their call, and not the right one given the overall reaction. 

According to someone onboard's livestream, Edge was able to still ask for vaccine info because the DeSantis law doesn't go into effect until July 1.  I wonder if their future cruises will also be at 99%.

[kearney]

1 minute ago, PTC DAWG said:

I agree, we are booked on Allure in Sept,  fully vaccinated, hoping for the best.  

We are out of Nassau in August... and rules for port tours on the website have changed 3 times in the last several days... not worth worrying about for weeks. Also..when we booked..back in April..we knew we were risking unpleasant protocols...so that is on us... if we don't like them.

[CruisingNole]

So in other words, as a vaccinated Floridian, I will have to wear a mask in 50%+ of venues on RC cruises that depart from Florida but I won't have to wear a mask on the cruise lines that are requiring vaccinations?

 

Royal sure is making this an easy decision. 

[kearney]

1 minute ago, cured said:

According to someone onboard's livestream, Edge was able to still ask for vaccine info because the DeSantis law doesn't go into effect until July 1.  I wonder if their future cruises will also be at 99%.

If I recall correctly.. they ask and if you don't want to share.. they consider you unvaccinated like Royal. Now Royal will accept you..but Celebrity is committed to the 95% standard... so the question is... will they turn you away at the port or call and say that they have reached their quota and offer you a FCC... that part is not clear...