Freedom Venues Vaccinated/Unvaccinated Rules Spelled Out

[harkinmr]

10 minutes ago, cured said:

According to someone onboard's livestream, Edge was able to still ask for vaccine info because the DeSantis law doesn't go into effect until July 1.  I wonder if their future cruises will also be at 99%.

They are sailing at the 95/98 vaccinated option given under the CSO and will be sailing this way through the Summer.  The law goes into effect July 1, but the Executive Order applies until June 30.  The law will not impact them as they have found this workaround.

[seabeew]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

It is not discrimination and parents are making a choice bringing unvaccinated children on board.  They can be infected and transmit the virus, as evidenced by the two unvaccinated children on Adventure. The risk is even higher with a sizable number of unvaccinated adults on board. Unvaccinated children can become infected by exposure on the ship well outside the dining room.  Parents need to decide if that is a risk they are willing to accept. It is not up to the cruise line to prevent their exposure or reduce their risk by foisting them upon the fully vaccinated.  

Harkinmr, I agree with most of your posts, but I take issue with your statement that “They can be infected and transmit the virus, as evidenced by the two unvaccinated children on Adventure”.

 

I was on that sailing and as far as I know no one else was infected by them. They were two teenagers traveling with their vaccinated parents. Further ttesting revealed the parents were not infected. Additional tests were run on people the teenagers had close contact with. None tested positive.
 

The entire ship had been tested on day 5 and no one tested positive. Today a member of our cruise discussion group posted a picture of a group of passengers who were on back to back cruises. As required by the Bahamas, they had to take another covid test yesterday. The picture showed them waiting for test results. I’m sure if anyone tested positive, there would have been more news. 

 

I saw very few children on the cruise. The ones I saw were sticking with their parents and very well behaved and following the rules. Everyone was taking the news about the covid cases in their stride, without any panic.

 

If there was spread after the teenagers and their parents left the ship , I don’t know and I don’t think anyone will know for sure. 

[jean87510]

45 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

yes, seriously wouldn't this make more sense instead of endless what if's?  I understand if you have a cruise booked this summer but by the fall it will probably be much different as evidenced by the differences between March 2021 and now.

[richstowe]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

If you arrive at the port and refuse or cannot provide proof you are classified as "unvaccinated" and placed in that pool of passengers, which is not to exceed 5%.  If the unvaccinated pool is full, you risk being turned away at the port.  If you are allowed to board, you are subject to the unvaccinated protocols, which include COVID testing before, during and after the cruise, masks and restricted shore excursions.  

Is this all clearly spelled out ? 

[graphicguy]

9 minutes ago, richstowe said:

Is this all clearly spelled out ? 

I'm perusing some Royal Sailings...

 

Here's what they say on their WEB Site...

 

At check-in, guests will be asked to provide documentation of their vaccination, such as the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) COVID-19 Vaccination Record Card. Those who are 16 and older and do not have or are unable to provide documentation will be considered unvaccinated.

Our unvaccinated guests must undergo additional COVID-19 testing at their own expense, and follow the health protocols described below, which are based on guidance from the CDC.

If you do not wish to undergo or pay for additional testing, or adhere to these health and safety protocols, we are happy to provide you with a refund. We believe that in the coming months, restrictions and requirements will be more accommodating as public health circumstances evolve.

 

 

Testing Requirements

Vaccinated Guests

Vaccinated guests do not have any testing requirements.

COVID-19 Testing for Unvaccinated Guests

As a requirement to sail with us, all unvaccinated guests age 2 and older must undergo multiple COVID-19 tests. Testing at the terminal prior to embarkation and onboard before disembarking will be conducted by licensed and accredited third-party testing providers we have contracted. Our unvaccinated guests must register for this test and agree to the third-party testing provider terms and conditions. Registration details will be sent via email in advance.

For unvaccinated guests 16 and older, the total charge from the third-party testing vendor for these tests is $136 USD per guest. This amount will be applied to the guest’s onboard expense account. Royal Caribbean will pay the testing vendor(s) on the guest’s behalf and will not retain any part of the testing costs. For guests age 2 to 15, we will cover the cost of any required testing.

The testing required of our unvaccinated guests is described below.

Pre-Cruise
Unvaccinated guests 16 years of age and older will need to undergo a PCR test administered by an accredited laboratory of the guest’s choice, and taken no more than three days before sailing. We will require documentation of a negative result for this test prior to embarkation. All costs for this test are the unvaccinated guest’s responsibility.

At the Terminal
Unvaccinated guests 2 years of age and older are required to take a PCR test when checking in at the terminal, which will be administered by one of our testing vendors. Registration details will be sent via email in advance.

Prior to Disembarking
While onboard, unvaccinated guests 2 years of age and older will be required to undergo antigen testing before disembarking at the end of the voyage. This test will be conducted the day before the cruise ends by one of our testing vendors. Guests will be notified onboard about how to register for this test.

These tests will be complimentary for guests ages 2-15.

Guests under 2 years of age will not be tested.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by graphicguy

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, seabeew said:

Harkinmr, I agree with most of your posts, but I take issue with your statement that “They can be infected and transmit the virus, as evidenced by the two unvaccinated children on Adventure”.

 

I was on that sailing and as far as I know no one else was infected by them. They were two teenagers traveling with their vaccinated parents. Further ttesting revealed the parents were not infected. Additional tests were run on people the teenagers had close contact with. None tested positive.
 

The entire ship had been tested on day 5 and no one tested positive. Today a member of our cruise discussion group posted a picture of a group of passengers who were on back to back cruises. As required by the Bahamas, they had to take another covid test yesterday. The picture showed them waiting for test results. I’m sure if anyone tested positive, there would have been more news. 

 

I saw very few children on the cruise. The ones I saw were sticking with their parents and very well behaved and following the rules. Everyone was taking the news about the covid cases in their stride, without any panic.

 

If there was spread after the teenagers and their parents left the ship , I don’t know and I don’t think anyone will know for sure. 

I said they can be infected and they were.  I also believe they can transmit the virus.  I understand they tested close contacts and they tested negative, but incubation periods run 2 to 14 days and early testing does not always accurately reflect infection, particularly antigen tests.  As you said, they are not following anyone after the cruise so we will never know whether anyone else was infected.  It sounds like your experience on the cruise with children was different from others on that cruise and the first one who said they saw many children unmasked at various points.  It doesn't really matter.  Protocols should be enforced ship-wide and I still contend that the risk of infection of unvaccinated children is on the parents, not the cruise line.  It will be an even greater risk with larger groups of children and unvaccinated adults on board.  I guess that was the point of my post.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

5 hours ago, sunshinetricia said:

I'm probably very cynical after the last year, but what are the chances they actually enforce all of this? I've been to Disney a handful of times in the last year and although they are one of the best at enforcement, we still saw SO MANY instances where people didn't follow the rules. Plus look at all of the videos online of people freaking out because someone tried to enforce the rules on them. I'm a MAJOR rule follower, so I always get agitated when I see people breaking rules--especially during covid because the stakes are so high. I don't think I could handle being on a ship like this with so many rules and then watching people break them the whole time. It would completely ruin the vacation for me because I would just be irritated the whole time over the lack of rule enforcement (which is why I am sailing on Adventure where there aren't as many rules. lol) 

 

I agree with you. We've also booked Adventure.

 

For many people, fierce opposition to masks is a cultural badge of honor.  So there could be substantial noncompliance.  Why bother dealing with that when there are better cruise choices?

 

[harkinmr]

9 minutes ago, richstowe said:

Is this all clearly spelled out ? 

Yes.

[kearney]

I couple of links people might want to check periodically... since things are in flux

 

Celebrity protocols... look for link to info by departure port

 

Royal Caribbean protocols -- again look for details by departure port

 

But I saw this on the Celebrity page which I found forceful..given Florida passport ban..Royal dances around this... Celebrity doesn't... 

[Evilgrin72]

39 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

No doubt about that, I have cruised from PC from my Inlaws Condo in New Smyrna Beach....although that takes about an hour.  But it is a nice feeling...

 

The older I get, the more I value it.  In my 20s, I lived in NJ and sailed out of Miami three times, Honolulu once, San Juan once.  Since I moved to Florida, I've sailed out of Nassau, San Juan, New Orleans and NYC.  All because I wanted to visit different islands.... but now that there are very few left that I haven't been to (and any cruise that visits one of them includes 2 or 3 others I've been to multiple times,) I tend to opt for the convenience and lower cost of cruising from my home port.

 

It's mildly annoying that between the FL government and RCL, they've managed to come up with a plan that involves me either having to wear a mask half the time or fly to another state/country to cruise when I have a port I can get to in 10 minutes if traffic permits.  If I lived anywhere but Florida and if my credit was with any line but RCL, it doesn't seem I would have these issues.  It's f@#$ing irritating.  😄

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

If you arrive at the port and refuse or cannot provide proof you are classified as "unvaccinated" and placed in that pool of passengers, which is not to exceed 5%.  If the unvaccinated pool is full, you risk being turned away at the port.  If you are allowed to board, you are subject to the unvaccinated protocols, which include COVID testing before, during and after the cruise, masks and restricted shore excursions.  

 

Thanks for this clear and concise description.

[forgotmyCCname]

1 hour ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

YES!!!!!

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, kearney said:

I couple of links people might want to check periodically... since things are in flux

 

Celebrity protocols... look for link to info by departure port

 

Royal Caribbean protocols -- again look for details by departure port

 

But I saw this on the Celebrity page which I found forceful..given Florida passport ban..Royal dances around this... Celebrity doesn't... 

Celebrity can not dance around it.  They chose not to do test sailings; they can not leave the dock unless the unvaccinated count s 5% or less.i

[exm]

I really which royal would split out kids 12 and younger from the 12-16 crowd. First of all, kids 12 and younger can't get vaccinated. Secondly, CDC data proves that the younger kids hardly transmit the virus at all. Finally, a 6 year old will behave very differently compared to a 15 year old.

 

I'm not overly impacted looking at the venues, with the exception of not being able to take any excursions outside of RC-provided ones.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

I hope things change by November, but at this time I am not thrilled that my unvaxxed 10 yo child will be limited to areas full of unvaxxed adults. While it's not a problem for him (or any of us) to wear a mask at any of the indoor venues, like theater or ice shows where we are not eating or drinking, I am worried about congregating in the MDR limited to unvaxxed passengers only. And the fact that none of the passengers with kids can just take a taxi to the beach, keeping away from the crowds, but must actually ride a bus/ferry with the unvaxxed adults, is not going to keep the children safe.

 

We've kept him safe by doing remote schooling for the whole year, no sports, no extracurricular activities, no playdates with his BFF who went to school in person... However, now the teachers are all vaccinated, and all of the adults in his life as well, so even though there won't be any remote schooling in August, I find a small consolation in the fact that all of the people at the school are vaccinated.

 

So, needless to say - I am torn. It's already a risk to cruise with an unvaccinated child, but when the cruise line itself limits the already vulnerable kids to the areas with unvaccinated adults and teens only - the risk increases. 

At the same time, we haven't had a vacation in 2 years, thanks to covid. This cruise was L&S... We really want to cruise, and we are even willing to wear masks indoors.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

It's all opinion and speculation on here.  If we didn't share opinions or speculate there wouldn't be much to talk about. 😉

Edited June 28, 2021 by harkinmr

[Goodtime Cruizin]

17 minutes ago, kearney said:

I couple of links people might want to check periodically... since things are in flux

 

Celebrity protocols... look for link to info by departure port

 

Royal Caribbean protocols -- again look for details by departure port

 

But I saw this on the Celebrity page which I found forceful..given Florida passport ban..Royal dances around this... Celebrity doesn't... 

 

That's interesting. Our cards have no stamp whatsoever. Of any kind. I think this is nothing but a CYA scare tactic. I'm not saying they may not try,  but they could not prove any type of fraud w/ the card we were issued. No signature and no agency stamp of any kind.

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

That's interesting. Our cards have no stamp whatsoever. Of any kind. I think this is nothing but a CYA scare tactic. I'm not saying they may not try,  but they could not prove any type of fraud w/ the card we were issued. No signature and no agency stamp of any kind.

The printed CDC logo is what they're talking about for US cards.

[forgotmyCCname]

6 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

That's interesting. Our cards have no stamp whatsoever. Of any kind. I think this is nothing but a CYA scare tactic. I'm not saying they may not try,  but they could not prove any type of fraud w/ the card we were issued. No signature and no agency stamp of any kind.

I was perplexed by this as well. As a "jabber", we recorded the date, lot number sticker (OR we printed it in a few cases) and our signature ,  In the States there is also no "central database " of the vaxxed despite claims of such . 

[Shorewalk Holmes]

33 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

That's interesting. Our cards have no stamp whatsoever. Of any kind. I think this is nothing but a CYA scare tactic. I'm not saying they may not try,  but they could not prove any type of fraud w/ the card we were issued. No signature and no agency stamp of any kind.

 

Excellent point. If someone gets a blank card and fills it out, can Royal really verify vaccination using the information on the card?  And even if they can, and they find an incorrect piece of data, can they prove that it's fraud vs. human error? 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[Babr]

3 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

Excellent point. If someone gets a blank card and fills it out, can they really verify vaccination using the information on the card?  And even if they can, and they find an incorrect piece of data, can they prove that it's fraud vs. human error? 

 

This has been discussed somewhere on CC - maybe Celebrity. If they really wanted to make the effort, they can trace the lot/batch number. That will indicate where and when it was given. 
 

Can they trace it to the individual? I don’t know. I think a lot depends on where you got the shot and the documentation process used at that location. A pharmacy or the health department may provide more information than a drive-thru site. Some states have a registry, but the accuracy depends on the reporting.

 

How closely will they check? Again, I don’t know, but I think they may flag anything that looks suspicious and follow up as necessary.  
 

I know  a VP is a taboo subject, but I would like the option to have one for international travel.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

6 minutes ago, Babr said:

I think a lot depends on where you got the shot and the documentation process used at that location. A pharmacy or the health department may provide more information than a drive-thru site. Some states have a registry, but the accuracy depends on the reporting.

Since my insurance was billed for the cost of the materials used, I can also print out EOBs showing the dates for the vaccinations matching our vaxx cards.

[Tolkmit]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

By the Webster definition there must be a "discriminating" act

 

Webster defines "discriminating" as the practice of unfairly treating a person or group of people differently from other people or groups of people. : the ability to recognize the difference between things that are of good quality and those that are not.

 

In my opinion there is nothing "unfair" about Royal's policy, therefore there is no "discrimination"

 

Literally linked you the definition according to Merriam Webster. The word "unfairly" does not appear in it.

[Babr]

4 minutes ago, Tolkmit said:

 

Literally linked you the definition according to Merriam Webster. The word "unfairly" does not appear in it.

But you used a circular definition. First define discriminate.

[MommaBear55]

4 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

Instead of everybody speculating how this plan is bad for everybody, why don't we all just wait a week or 10 days til the Freedom actually sets sail and we can hear what the experience was like for those aboard the actual sailing?  Things may work themselves out naturally and I am sure RCCL will be watching closely and "tweaking" for future sailings.

Russ, Russ, Russ, how can you take away everyone's fun in speculating and then arguing about that speculation? Using logic? Pshaw. You probably want facts and documentation only from the primary source. Where would Cruise CRITIC be with that type of behavior? It would be boring and have very few posts. We excel in arguing about the unsubstantiated and inane, not necessarily at the same time. 

I do agree we will have to have several sailings from different ports with different criteria before it becomes obvious which approach actually works and makes enough people happy to to sail and make Royal Caribbean some money. There make actually be 2 different approaches, see there I go speculating without facts...

And if there is anyone who is surprised there were a couple of positive cases, well, they haven't been paying attention this last 18 months.