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John Heald is stuck in the UK :( Will not be able to cruise :(


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3 minutes ago, kleibo said:

I understand he said he would have been fine if he travelled yesterday, but is there any documentation to support that.  I only see the old proclamations.

 

Yet another example of why it's important to travel early for your cruise - in order to take into account travel delays... lol

 

Tom

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7 minutes ago, kleibo said:

He was probably going with this one:

 

(viii)  any noncitizen traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any noncitizen otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/25/proclamation-on-the-suspension-of-entry-as-immigrants-and-non-immigrants-of-certain-additional-persons-who-pose-a-risk-of-transmitting-coronavirus-disease/

 

Not a lawyer and don't play one on tv, but I read those visas as only applicable to commercial vessels, and those by definition carry cargo.  I'm not sure that cruise ships fall into that category.

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Just now, ladylyn915 said:

Is the Horizon's 7/3 itinerary the same as 7/18?  

 

If so,  Horizon's first stop is Amber Cove, couldn't he fly to DR and get on ship there?  And, get off again in Bimini?  Not ideal, but could be a work around.  His eyes were so sad during his live.  I feel terrible for him.

FAQs posted on another thread this morning stated that guests who missed the embarkation port would not be permitted to join the cruise at another port and would receive no compensation.

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1 minute ago, ryanpatricksmom said:

Not a lawyer and don't play one on tv, but I read those visas as only applicable to commercial vessels, and those by definition carry cargo.  I'm not sure that cruise ships fall into that category.

 

Yes, another reason he should have known he would not be allowed in.  Not sure where the mis-step was.  That's why I'm looking for this "new" rule that came out yesterday.

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11 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

Yesterday, while discussing whether he is required to wear a face mask, he stated that he would be on the ship as a guest, not a crew member.

Then he would follow the travel restrictions for passengers.

9 minutes ago, ryanpatricksmom said:

Not a lawyer and don't play one on tv, but I read those visas as only applicable to commercial vessels, and those by definition carry cargo.  I'm not sure that cruise ships fall into that category.

Cruise ships are commercial vessels, as they are engaged in commerce.

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41 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

Yesterday, while discussing whether he is required to wear a face mask, he stated that he would be on the ship as a guest, not a crew member.

🤦‍♂️ He should have said he was part of the crew, an essential part.

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1 hour ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

FAQs posted on another thread this morning stated that guests who missed the embarkation port would not be permitted to join the cruise at another port and would receive no compensation.

But he is not a guest. he is an employee and employees get on and off at ports all the time - at least they did before the pandemic.

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So from what I have read: He got refused entry because of the new rule, just hours old, concerning entry from the UK to the US due to the Delta variant.

 

That's all, as far as I can see.

 

If so, then everything else about vaccinated or not, crew member or not, is just obfuscating the root cause.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

So from what I have read: He got refused entry because of the new rule, just hours old, concerning entry from the UK to the US due to the Delta variant.

That's what I understood as well.  He did a follow up video a short time ago and it sounded like everyone headed to the US was getting turned away.

Edited by Lee Cruiser
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2 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

So from what I have read: He got refused entry because of the new rule, just hours old, concerning entry from the UK to the US due to the Delta variant.

 

That's all, as far as I can see.

 

If so, then everything else about vaccinated or not, crew member or not, is just obfuscating the root cause.

Correct.

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This is unfortunate, but in the end JH is not an essential worker. I have not heard nor have I kept up with requirements for flying to the US. The Delta variant is more contagious and worse for those that contract it. Current vaccines in the US, Moderna and Pfizer (still waiting on J&J),  are extremely effective against Delta. Recent data from Australia shows it as well. If he was denied, I am hoping they are the same with everyone trying to fly to the US.

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42 minutes ago, ladylyn915 said:

But he is not a guest. he is an employee and employees get on and off at ports all the time - at least they did before the pandemic.


During yesterday morning’s video chat, he was asked if he would be wearing a mask.  He explained that crew members are required to wear masks at all times, unlike guests.  He stated that because he is cruising as a guest, he technically did not have to wear a mask; when he is interacting with guests, he would not wear it, but when he was in crew areas or otherwise interacting with crew members, he would wear it.  It was stated very clearly that on that particular cruise, he was (would have been) sailing as a guest.

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I do feel sorry for JH. He is now experiencing exactly what CCL has done to the rest of us that have had to wait as long as possible for them to cancel. Maybe they can put a little be of compassion into their practices.

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4 minutes ago, ZoeyVictoria said:


During yesterday morning’s video chat, he was asked if he would be wearing a mask.  He explained that crew members are required to wear masks at all times, unlike guests.  He stated that because he is cruising as a guest, he technically did not have to wear a mask; when he is interacting with guests, he would not wear it, but when he was in crew areas or otherwise interacting with crew members, he would wear it.  It was stated very clearly that on that particular cruise, he was (would have been) sailing as a guest.

Well then so much for my 'work around'  thanks.  Can't have it both ways.

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Yes, turn away a vaccinated individual because of concerns surrounding the Delta variant. When we already have plenty enough of that circulating around to spread amongst ourselves. The risk from him, or others in situations similar to his, is basically zero - or close enough to zero as to make little difference.

 

Perhaps this stems from a lack of national, or in this case international, framework for proof of vaccinations.

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24 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Yes, turn away a vaccinated individual because of concerns surrounding the Delta variant. When we already have plenty enough of that circulating around to spread amongst ourselves. The risk from him, or others in situations similar to his, is basically zero - or close enough to zero as to make little difference.

 

Perhaps this stems from a lack of national, or in this case international, framework for proof of vaccinations.

I think it stems from idiots that don't follow science. They make their suggestions and other idiots say yes. 

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Doesn't make any sense.  Vaccinated - had the PCR test done - and no notice.  We already have the Delta variant in every state.  UK is seeing 3-4 deaths a day.  I am thinking this is a political and health play to get more people in the UK vaccinated.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Yes, turn away a vaccinated individual because of concerns surrounding the Delta variant. When we already have plenty enough of that circulating around to spread amongst ourselves. The risk from him, or others in situations similar to his, is basically zero - or close enough to zero as to make little difference.

 

Perhaps this stems from a lack of national, or in this case international, framework for proof of vaccinations.

 

From what I have seen and read this is going to be a big issue for the travel industry.

 

Americans can easily get to U.S. ports and thus go cruising no problem. When you start adding in different countries it becomes a disaster.

 

I agree that the Delta variant is dangerous and we need to be cautious but without consistent rules across numerous countires these situations will occur.

 

We may be hearing of non Americans who booked the first cruises out of the U.S. and are also denied boarding.

Edited by K_e_short
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, BrotherCraig said:

Doesn't make any sense.  Vaccinated - had the PCR test done - and no notice.  We already have the Delta variant in every state.  UK is seeing 3-4 deaths a day.  I am thinking this is a political and health play to get more people in the UK vaccinated.  

Some countries have halted all travel from the UK due to the Delta variant (Hong Kong comes to mind), and European countries like Germany explicitly left the UK off the list of countries to be allowed to travel inbound.

 

So this is the world reacting to the spread within the UK, not just the US.

 

EDIT: it is unfortunate that Mr Heald and so many other were caught off guard, and I don't agree with this travel ban if the travelers are vaxxed and test negative, but I don't set immigration policy...

Edited by ProgRockCruiser
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1 hour ago, ZoeyVictoria said:


During yesterday morning’s video chat, he was asked if he would be wearing a mask.  He explained that crew members are required to wear masks at all times, unlike guests.  He stated that because he is cruising as a guest, he technically did not have to wear a mask; when he is interacting with guests, he would not wear it, but when he was in crew areas or otherwise interacting with crew members, he would wear it.  It was stated very clearly that on that particular cruise, he was (would have been) sailing as a guest.

It would seem to me that he would be a combination passenger and crew member. A passenger would not normally be allowed in crew areas, mask or no mask.

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