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How do you decide whether to pay or cancel?


Robjame
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Final payment for longer cruises is 181 days out and $350 penalty pp is 30 days before that.

 

Voyages January - April 2022, cancel or pay? Insurance is about 10% the cost of the voyage and companies in Canada exclude covid-related reasons are excluded, whether personal or industry-wide or country- or world-wide. When I asked the Oceania endorsed Insurance company they said for Covid reasons or cancellations, I would deal with Oceania re. refunds, cruise credit.

 

Is a future change of Oceania's stated vaccination policy, a valid reason to demand a refund?

 

Help. What do you do?

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6 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Final payment for longer cruises is 181 days out and $350 penalty pp is 30 days before that.

 

Voyages January - April 2022, cancel or pay? Insurance is about 10% the cost of the voyage and companies in Canada exclude covid-related reasons are excluded, whether personal or industry-wide or country- or world-wide. When I asked the Oceania endorsed Insurance company they said for Covid reasons or cancellations, I would deal with Oceania re. refunds, cruise credit.

 

Is a future change of Oceania's stated vaccination policy, a valid reason to demand a refund?

 

Help. What do you do?

Firstly- read your T&Cs. O can pretty much change anything they want related to the safety of passengers and crew. So, NO REFUND because you don’t care for their Covid policy.

 

If O now cancels your currently booked cruise, there is no choice of $ vs FCC. No new FCCs are being issued - only $$$ for items paid. Used an FCC for the booking? It will be redeposited to your O Club account with a “cruise by” deadline not to exceed 12/31/22.

 

As for you cancelling: The combination of your O invoice’s cancellation policies and the O Travelers Assurance promise in effect at the time of your booking determines what (if any) penalties exist.

 

That said, one great thing about O is that they will consider requests for REASONABLE extensions/exemptions on a case-by-case basis. And NO - you will not get a “cruise by” extension past 12/31/22.

 

You haven’t said which cruise(s) in January-April of 2022 are your concern.

Regatta and Insignia have OZ/NZ segments which will happen only if a miracle occurs. Nautica’s ports during those months are sketchy due to Covid (e.g., South Africa, India, etc) and the ship will be out of commission for several weeks to get the NEXT makeover. 
 

So, IMO, if you’ve got a single or multiple-segment cruise on an R ship (other than Sirena at this point) in the first quarter of 2022, look into transferring it to a different 2022 itinerary. The “bad news” that is “good news” is that, despite current limited cabin availability, the current/future early 2022 cancellations in progress now will allow creation of new segment itineraries with cabin availability.

 

FWIW, Before it was cancelled by O, we traded a January 2021 OZ/NZ for the same cruise in 2022 in part because we expected a rush to book the 2022 one once O cancelled the 2021 one. We then did the same thing with the 2022 OZ/NZ booking - traded it for a different 2022 itinerary (closer to home) because once O cancels that OZ/NZ one, most of those folks will be looking to rebook at the same time.

 

Bottom line is that there’s no right answer. Rather, what is important is to follow O’s current ship schedule decisions in light of the bigger picture of it’s overall operations framed by the worldwide Covid environment. 
 

 

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I asked the is question of O months ago and the answer was unfortunately, no. Some corporate speak I don't really understand. I surely empathize with the decision you are trying to make though. We went ahead and paid the final on our November cruise.....there is no way, it seems, to be completely sure of anything now so I suppose it is a matter of individual risk tolerance. 

 

I am thinking if it becomes really unsafe or unworkable O will cancel. 

 

Best to you in your decision making!!

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Life is a gamble. If you want to go in the cruise: pay up. If you feel more comfortable staying at home hunkering: cancel. Easy Peasy. 
 

We’re departing for a cruise in Europe on Saturday. Certain Premium lines are sailing. Life is an adventure. Not everyone likes adventure. Do what makes you comfortable.

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“You haven’t said which cruise(s) in January-April of 2022 are your concern.”

 

We are presently booked in Miami - Miami - Caribbean early March (final payment due December)

and

Miami - Venice - March - April (payment due First of October

 

Lots of factors to consider before payment but we have been seriously considering cancelling as we have a similar itinerary and timing booked for 2023. 
 

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7 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Life is a gamble. If you want to go in the cruise: pay up. If you feel more comfortable staying at home hunkering: cancel. Easy Peasy. 
 

We’re departing for a cruise in Europe on Saturday. Certain Premium lines are sailing. Life is an adventure. Not everyone likes adventure. Do what makes you comfortable.

The gamble for us would be financial - wish we could say that money is no object but we save to take the occasional cruise. If the world pandemic situation were to worsen between final payment and cruise ….

We could not travel if it were against the advice of our country as that would void our health insurance - yet this would not be a valid reason as far as travel insurance is concerned as they treat this as a pre-existing condition in effect at the time we booked.

 

We are in the Oceanic age demographic so travelling now healthwise is less of a personal gamble.

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1 minute ago, Robjame said:

....We could not travel if it were against the advice of our country as that would void our health insurance - yet this would not be a valid reason as far as travel insurance is concerned as they treat this as a pre-existing condition in effect at the time we booked....

PECs as seen by insurers refer to your personal medical situation during the lookback period prior to the date you purchase the policy. It has nothing to do with Covid restrictions in effect or anticipated.

Of course, a country’s travel restrictions or pandemics, terrorism, etc can be listed among an insurer’s exclusions for which cancellation claims would be denied. 
 

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15 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:
22 minutes ago, Robjame said:

 

PECs as seen by insurers refer to your personal medical situation during the lookback period prior to the date you purchase the policy. It has nothing to do with Covid restrictions in effect or anticipated

I thought so too, until I phoned CARP (Canada’s AARP) and our extended health insurance provider. Their interpretation is that the condition (pandemic) existed at the time we booked so we were gambling that the situation would improve. If it didn’t then the risk is ours.

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Flatbush laid it out as perfectly and as completely as possible. Travelers Assurance is your ace in the hole. Most important, Oceania will not sail the ship with staff and passengers if it were not safe to do it. We are like you with 4 segments booked on Riviera beginning October 18 so plenty of cash is in play. 
I just heard from a Sommelier friend and she leaves the Philippines tomorrow heading to meet up with other staff on Marina to prepare for her sailing August 29.  I don’t think O would be paying and flying them if they were not going to be sailing.

See some of you shortly.

Bonnie and Gerry

 

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March seems even safer to me than your headline of January.  And it also means that final payment isn't due for quite a while (and as noted above O has been flexible about extending that deadline).  So I would sit tight at this point, expecting those cruises to go.  One thing I wouldn't do is trigger my travel insurance just to save the deposit – since my policies can be rolled over to a later trip.

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Who is the CARP insurance underwritten by?

 

JMO

If the cruise line cancels  then you will be refunded (I hope)

If you get covid  that is another matter

 

Pre Covid  we used RSA insurance  for trip cancellation 

DH got sick before  then during  a cruise ..they paid  up no problem 

Once you leave the Province  you need medical insurance as OHIP no longer cover  anything

read the fine print carefully  some US policies  do not cover Canadians

 

Just to add

The $350 Admin fee can be used on a future cruise  so it is not lost  to you

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Robjame said:

I thought so too, until I phoned CARP (Canada’s AARP) and our extended health insurance provider. Their interpretation is that the condition (pandemic) existed at the time we booked so we were gambling that the situation would improve. If it didn’t then the risk is ours.

There are two definitions of PEC: Both involve your personal health only One is the healthcare interpretation and the other is the insurance interpretation. Covid is a PEC only if you personally have acquired it (or had significant changes in Tx or Rx for it) during the insurance lookback period.


That said, Covid as a pandemic (whether or not you have it and whether or not it is a PEC medical condition for you personally), can be an insurance policy “exclusion from coverage.” So, whether or not you have it is irrelevant as is 

when it was declared as a pandemic or when existed or whatever. 

Further, while you can get PEC waivers for all sorts of personal medical conditions, policy exclusions are not open to waivers or exceptions.

 

Basically, unless the use of terminology for insurance is really different in Canada (highly unlikely), it appears that you are confusing the terms “PEC” (personal health) and “exclusion” (policy limitation).

Edited by Flatbush Flyer
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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

Basically, unless the use of terminology for insurance is really different in Canada (highly unlikely), it appears that you are confusing the terms “PEC” (personal health) and “exclusion” (policy limitation).

It would not be the first time I have confused things… lol

i only want insurance to protect my investment prior to the cruise,  not for health insurance during the cruise. That I have through extended (supplemental) health benefit insurance.

All I can tell you is that after 2 long telephone conversations the worsening of the pandemic is not a valid reason for cancelling:

AON - Oceania - discretion of the cruise operator as it is not a health related reason for cancellation

mcLennan Group - CARP - the pandemic is a pre-existing condition that I should be aware of and as such the risk is mine (example given was if brother is terminal and dies that is not valid to cancel trip as I was aware of the situation)

 

These are the risks, gambles, situations that I have to weigh and I still have time to see how things shake out.

‘Thanks for your input.

Edited by Robjame
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18 minutes ago, Robjame said:

It would not be the first time I have confused things… lol

i only want insurance to protect my investment prior to the cruise,  not for health insurance during the cruise. That I have through extended (supplemental) health benefit insurance.

All I can tell you is that after 2 long telephone conversations the worsening of the pandemic is not a valid reason for cancelling:

AON - Oceania - discretion of the cruise operator as it is not a health related reason for cancellation

mcLennan Group - CARP - the pandemic is a pre-existing condition that I should be aware of and as such the risk is mine (example given was if brother is terminal and dies that is not valid to cancel trip as I was aware of the situation)

 

These are the risks, gambles, situations that I have to weigh and I still have time to see how things shake out.

‘Thanks for your input.

If Oceania cancels a cruise before you do, their T&Cs (even for Canada) should still say that your fare paid will be refunded.

When O was originally doing “Covid concerns” cancelled cruises (early 2020), fully paid passengers were given an opportunity to take 125% FCC instead of 100% refund. Later in 2020, they changed to “if you don’t tell us you want a $ refund by a certain date, we’ll give you a100% FCC automatically. Recently, that changed to refund of 100% of cruise fare (+ optional purchases) paid (and/or FCCs used are redeposited in your account). Note that, in no case, has O violated its T&Cs promise of $ refund.

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26 minutes ago, Robjame said:

Thanks Flatbush Flyer - I really appreciate your expertise on these topics.

Thanks!

Not so much an Oceania “expert” as “I know enough to be mildly dangerous.”

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This thread is helpful.  DH and I are fully vaccinated and intend to pay in full on the due date for our upcoming January 2022 cruise.  If Oceania cancels our sailing I can expect a full refund.  Any cancellation made by me is my problem to work out with insurance, etc.  Am I understanding this correctly?

 

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I would  feel ok with the Caribbean cruise  if Miami allows O to sail from there

Oceania  may have another option in case Florida  throws a spanner in the works

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Roccaforte said:

This thread is helpful.  DH and I are fully vaccinated and intend to pay in full on the due date for our upcoming January 2022 cruise.  If Oceania cancels our sailing I can expect a full refund.  Any cancellation made by me is my problem to work out with insurance, etc.  Am I understanding this correctly?

 

If you are in North America

Providing your insurance  & the reason for cancelling is covered by them

eg: you got sick  from something  that did not exist when you bought the insurance

DH  had a gall bladder attack at the hotel prior to boarding the plane  ..it was covered

 

Always  read the fine print  & ask questions to make sure  what is a covered event

 

FWIW  it is good to put the Country you live in on your profile

different answers for different Countries

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15 minutes ago, Roccaforte said:

This thread is helpful.  DH and I are fully vaccinated and intend to pay in full on the due date for our upcoming January 2022 cruise.  If Oceania cancels our sailing I can expect a full refund.  Any cancellation made by me is my problem to work out with insurance, etc.  Am I understanding this correctly?

 

As of the most recent O “travel advisory” (late May/early June?): If Oceania cancels any currently booked cruise, it will refund 100% of the cruise fare $ paid as well as any options purchased.

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1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

As of the most recent O “travel advisory” (late May/early June?): If Oceania cancels any currently booked cruise, it will refund 100% of the cruise fare $ paid as well as any options purchased.

We got our $1,500 deposit for Sirena's cancelled TA exactly one month after the cancellation.  I was never worried the money was lost.  I soon have final payment due for Riviera's Feb 7, 2022 voyage from Miami and I plan to pay it.  Let the adventure begin.

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Regarding the OP's post I would be more concerned about my own government then O...if I lived in Canada.  No telling what restrictions your PM will impose.  As to dealing with "O" I was not particularly happy making a final payment on a Dec cruise that may not happen, but that is the way of the new Covid world.  If "O" were to cancel our cruise I would simply request a refund.  

 

We have posted, elsewhere, that travel in this new COVID world always involves some degree of risk, adventure, and a requires positive attitude.  We have 3 cruises booked in the next 5 months and each of them involves some element of risk (although our upcoming cruise from Greece seems to now involve little risk).  DW and I have actually traveled throughout the pandemic and while we have always used lots of common sense in our traveling we did understand that our COVID risk was increased because of our travel.  But we were not about to give up a year of travel and fun because of COVID.  The COVID risk will likely continue for many years and there will be new variants and probably new viruses.  A life spent in fear, wearing masks, locking down, etc. is not for us.  While we have the utmost respect for those that want to spend a few years locked down, love wearing masks, etc.  it is just not our style.  We try to keep educated on the real facts, make decisions based on common sense, balance, and our own risk tolerance, and live our lives.

 

Hank

 

 

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4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Regarding the OP's post I would be more concerned about my own government then O...if I lived in Canada.  No telling what restrictions your PM will impose.  As to dealing with "O" I was not particularly happy making a final payment on a Dec cruise that may not happen, but that is the way of the new Covid world.  If "O" were to cancel our cruise I would simply request a refund. 

I think this gets to the heart of the matter. It is possible that travel restrictions might be still in effect at the time of final payment for Canadians or be reimposed if the pandemic were to worsen. Both would negate any insurance for us but might not affect our American friends. Oceania could still be a go. That is an answer for our TA to solve.

Our tolerance for the COVID risk is quite high. However, our ability and desire to accept a loss of $30 000 or a large portion of this, are less so. There are very few perks offered by our government for the fully vaccinated. The ‘universal good” subjugates individual rights and freedoms. Even the issuing of a COVID passport is seen as “divisive”. Universal healthcare does present some unique problems where political decisions can affect what risks insurance carriers are prepared to underwrite.

Thanks for hearing me out on what may be a Canadian problem not of interest or concern.

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15 hours ago, LHT28 said:

If you are in North America

Providing your insurance  & the reason for cancelling is covered by them

eg: you got sick  from something  that did not exist when you bought the insurance

DH  had a gall bladder attack at the hotel prior to boarding the plane  ..it was covered

 

Always  read the fine print  & ask questions to make sure  what is a covered event

 

FWIW  it is good to put the Country you live in on your profile

different answers for different Countries

 

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