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3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 Once the Hawaii and the Aloha reflagged to Bahamas, they permanently lost their exemption to the US built clause of the PVSA.

 

I've spoken with some Sr Execs with NCL about the Hawaii situation, and I've been given a slightly different take on this part of the story.

 

Reflagging the Hawaii (Jade) and Aloha (Sky) to the Bahamas was NOT what permanently caused them to lose their exemption. I've been told that they could be reflagged to the Bahamas and then later re-reflagged back to the US on the condition that they did not sail from any US ports in the meantime.

 

Once the Sky starting sailing from Miami, she lost her right to reflag to the US.

 

NCL sent the Pride of Hawaii directly to Europe to become the Jade. The Jade then only sailed from Europe (thus avoiding US ports) so that they could always send her back to Hawaii. However, once they moved the Jade back to the US to start sailing from US ports, she lost her right to reflage to the US same as the Sky.

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This is interesting stuff.  My personal preference would be that at some point NCL would just start sailing roundtrip from LA or San Diego with the obligatory stop in Mexico.  I would happily invest more time/$$$ in a few more sea days than that miserable round trip flight.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

NCL does have a significant investment in the compound on Fanning Island, Republic of Kiribati, which is the closest foreign port to Hawaii (about 700 miles due south).  NCL did operate foreign flag ships around Hawaii for years, calling at Fanning as their foreign port.  They may find that that is another, more attractive alternative to West Coast sailings.  Since HAL and Seabourn are still calling at Fanning, I assume the compound (power plant, vacuum toilet system, galley, water sports equipment) is still in operation.

 

How about a shore excursion on Fanning Island to see the vacuum toilet system! 😜

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2 minutes ago, MorganClark said:

 

How about a shore excursion on Fanning Island to see the vacuum toilet system! 😜

 

As opposed to seeing the vacuum toilet system on the ship?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, RumRunner2021 said:

This is interesting stuff.  My personal preference would be that at some point NCL would just start sailing roundtrip from LA or San Diego with the obligatory stop in Mexico.  I would happily invest more time/$$$ in a few more sea days than that miserable round trip flight.

 

Actually, that's a great idea! Embark the foreign flag cruise ship in SD (or LA) which is a short sail to Ensenada, Mx to meet the foreign port stop requirement of the PVSA, then on to the Hawaiian Islands. I like it! And actually, I like sea days so no problem here. I think it is 5 sea days from the West Coast to Hawaii. Then, 7 days calling the Hawaiin Islands for a nice long 12 day cruise. 

Edited by MorganClark
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8 minutes ago, MorganClark said:

 

Actually, that's a great idea! Embark the foreign flag cruise ship in SD (or LA) which is a short sail to Ensenada, Mx to meet the foreign port stop requirement of the PVSA, then on to the Hawaiian Islands. I like it! And actually, I like sea days so no problem here. I think it is 5 sea days from the West Coast to Hawaii. Then, 7 days calling the Hawaiin Islands for a nice long 12 day cruise. 

Well, if you are going to use a foreign flag ship, then you would need to round trip from the West Coast, so it would be 5 days out, 7 days in Hawaii, and 5 days back, for 17 days.  Most lines that do the West Coast to Hawaii, are 14 day, with 4 days in Hawaii.

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Done several 15 night Hawaii and is way too long to spend such a little time in Hawaii. I dont mind sea days but there are simply too many. I have 7 day Hawaii 11/27 and hopefully it will sail. If not it will be a land trip.

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3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, if you are going to use a foreign flag ship, then you would need to round trip from the West Coast, so it would be 5 days out, 7 days in Hawaii, and 5 days back, for 17 days.  Most lines that do the West Coast to Hawaii, are 14 day, with 4 days in Hawaii.

 

I'm confusion. Couldn't a foreign flag cruise ship do a one way from SD (or LA) making a port stop in Ensenada to Hawaii (disembarking passengers in Honolulu) similar to how foreign flag cruise ships do one way cruises to Alaska from Vancouver? Oh wait, the fog is clearing; if the foreign flag cruise ship embarks passengers in a U.S. port (SD or LA) they have to return to that same U.S port and make a foreign port stop. Like foreign flag cruise ships do on those shorter 7 day Alaska cruises R/T from Seattle with the mandatory port stop in Victoria, BC. I think I got that correct...

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Posted (edited)

I think the future of sailing in Hawaii depends much more on the state government and less on the cruise lines. I read yesterday they are considering raising the arrival tourist tax again to try to get a handle on the over crowding. The current hotel tax is already 14.6% and an arrival tax would be in addition to.  The state could tax the cruise lines right out of any profit margins.

Edited by BermudaBound2014
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1 hour ago, SeaShark said:

Reflagging the Hawaii (Jade) and Aloha (Sky) to the Bahamas was NOT what permanently caused them to lose their exemption. I've been told that they could be reflagged to the Bahamas and then later re-reflagged back to the US on the condition that they did not sail from any US ports in the meantime.

I know that that was a common belief at NCL headquarters, since the act granting them the waiver (PL 108-7, Division B, Title II, Section 211) clearly prohibits the ships from sailing from other US ports.  However, the basis of a PVSA exemption is that the ship is US flag.  There have been ocean liners built in the US, and therefore compliant under the PVSA, that were reflagged foreign, and when subsequently reflagged back to US, had to  apply for an exemption to return to the PVSA trade.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MorganClark said:

 

I'm confusion. Couldn't a foreign flag cruise ship do a one way from SD (or LA) making a port stop in Ensenada to Hawaii (disembarking passengers in Honolulu) similar to how foreign flag cruise ships do one way cruises to Alaska from Vancouver? Oh wait, the fog is clearing; if the foreign flag cruise ship embarks passengers in a U.S. port (SD or LA) they have to return to that same U.S port and make a foreign port stop. Like foreign flag cruise ships do on those shorter 7 day Alaska cruises R/T from Seattle with the mandatory port stop in Victoria, BC. I think I got that correct...

The PVSA allows closed-loop cruises (round trip returning to the embarkation port) with a stop in any foreign port.  To allow the "open jaw" or one-way cruise that embarks in one US port and disembark at a different US port, it needs to be a "distant foreign port".  Ensenada and Victoria are not distant enough to qualify for the one-way trips.

 

This is why the one-way Alaska trips either start or end in Vancouver.

Edited by hallux
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, hallux said:

The PVSA allows closed-loop cruises (round trip returning to the embarkation port) with a stop in any foreign port.  To allow the "open jaw" or one-way cruise that embarks in one US port and disembark at a different US port, it needs to be a "distant foreign port".  Ensenada and Victoria are not distant enough to qualify for the one-way trips.

 

This is why the one-way Alaska trips either start or end in Vancouver.

 

Thanks. As the "fog" lifted all the way, I remembered the term closed-loop cruises. So, I would just have to stay on the ship longer on a Hawaii closed-loop cruise that departs SD (or LA) and makes the required stop in Ensenada (right @RumRunner2021?). I think @chengkp75said it was a 14 day cruise (5 days out to Hawaii, 4 days calling Hawaiian islands/ports and 5 days back to the U.S. west coast). Yeah, go ahead and "throw me in that briar patch"...

Edited by MorganClark
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I have done a 15 day round trip Hawaii cruise on Princess and I would not do it again. We were caught in a storm going and it was rougher than skirting a tropical storm in the Caribbean. One evening we were asked to stay in our cabins except to go to dinner. I enjoyed the cruise after the first few days and I love sea days but 8 sea days more or less was too much even for me.

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2 hours ago, saltsandknit said:

I have done a 15 day round trip Hawaii cruise on Princess and I would not do it again. We were caught in a storm going and it was rougher than skirting a tropical storm in the Caribbean. One evening we were asked to stay in our cabins except to go to dinner. I enjoyed the cruise after the first few days and I love sea days but 8 sea days more or less was too much even for me.

 

I totally respect your reaction to adverse sea conditions. Heck, I was a professional merchant mariner (now retired) and I am susceptible to sea sickness. But, there are remedies for sea sickness, you just need to be prepared before you leave the dock. Just my preference but I like sea days and longer cruises.

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I wasn’t sick. I don’t get sea sickness. It was so rough we couldn’t use the pool or some of the bars the first few days. Perhaps i would have enjoyed it more if there had been more to do. I loved Hawaii Maui in particular but next time I will fly and do a land vacation 

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50 minutes ago, saltsandknit said:

I wasn’t sick. I don’t get sea sickness. It was so rough we couldn’t use the pool or some of the bars the first few days. Perhaps i would have enjoyed it more if there had been more to do. I loved Hawaii Maui in particular but next time I will fly and do a land vacation 

 

Gotcha. You lucky sea dog that you don't get sea sick (I wish I had that "problem", lol). Yeah, Hawaii is definitely on my bucket list.

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1 hour ago, MorganClark said:

 

Gotcha. You lucky sea dog that you don't get sea sick (I wish I had that "problem", lol). Yeah, Hawaii is definitely on my bucket list.

I’m lucky and surprised  I don’t get motion sickness my mom and sister struggle with it. A lot of sick people on the ship. That cruise.  Unfortunately it was just so boring. I like sea days usually and longer cruises. I didn’t much care for Princess either. 

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1 hour ago, saltsandknit said:

I’m lucky and surprised  I don’t get motion sickness my mom and sister struggle with it. A lot of sick people on the ship. That cruise.  Unfortunately it was just so boring. I like sea days usually and longer cruises. I didn’t much care for Princess either. 

 

Yeah, I agree about Princess. I sailed with Princess to Alaska. But it's "one and done" for both Princess and Alaska for me.

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43 minutes ago, MorganClark said:

 

Yeah, I agree about Princess. I sailed with Princess to Alaska. But it's "one and done" for both Princess and Alaska for me.

Not that I disagree, but what didn't you like about Princess vs. NCL? (I've never sailed Princess)

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57 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

Very interesting discussion here.  Thanks to everyone for the information!

 

Cheers

 

Thanks. Btw, I like your CC avatar. I'm a Red Wings fan also. Do you live in Michigan?

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