Will Princess cruise from Florida with unvaccinated passengers in Jan 2022?

[maggie777]

We have a cruise RT Ft Lauderdale in Jan '22 and will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers. How do you think Princess will handle the situation in Florida?

[HaveWeMetYet]

So you go out to all sorts of places with crowds of people that are not vaccinated but you won't get on a cruise ship. I don't get it.

 

As far as Princess and the other cruise lines go they want to stuff as many people as possible on these ships as soon as possible. If you will only cruise with vaccinated you better do it soon. In fact, the CSO may expire this month and the cruise lines can do what they want. First thing they will drop are masks and vaccine status.

[dog]

32 minutes ago, maggie777 said:

We have a cruise RT Ft Lauderdale in Jan '22 and will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers. How do you think Princess will handle the situation in Florida?

When I searched a December 2022 cruise out of Ft Lauderdale today, a banner dropped down with notice that this was for fully vaccinated passengers. Don’t know what Princess is planning, too soon to tell for 2022. 
I am going to wait until final payment to make my decision on whether I will cruise in 2022. 
No one else has a right to criticize your choice. 

[beg3yrs]

25 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

So you go out to all sorts of places with crowds of people that are not vaccinated but you won't get on a cruise ship. I don't get it.

....

Well personally I will cruise with passengers that are not vaccinated but ... it could be that people who insist on fully vaccinated cruises are worried about a repeat of last year's drama if there's an outbreak on board with ships either sitting in a port without being able to disembark or ships sailing almost aimlessly looking for a port that will take them. So much has been learned since then that if there are cases on board, the protocols are in place that those awful scenarios are IMHO highly unlikely. However, there are still those who worry ... it's sad.

[Musky Ike]

10 minutes ago, dog said:

When I searched a December 2022 cruise out of Ft Lauderdale today, a banner dropped down with notice that this was for fully vaccinated passengers. Don’t know what Princess is planning, too soon to tell for 2022. 
I am going to wait until final payment to make my decision on whether I will cruise in 2022. 
No one else has a right to criticize your choice. 

That's odd, I see that banner for a Nov. 2021 cruise but I looked at April and September ones for 2022 and it's not. Why would it be back again for Dec. 2022? Or did you look at Dec.2021?

[Syracusefan44]

57 minutes ago, maggie777 said:

We have a cruise RT Ft Lauderdale in Jan '22 and will not cruise with unvaccinated passengers. How do you think Princess will handle the situation in Florida?

The situation in Florida is far from over since Tuesday the US Department of Justice appealed the US District Court Judges decision to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.  The vast majority of the Court of Appeals decisions are final and binding in the lower courts in the same circuit so Princess will know more when they render a decision.

 

The State of Florida can file the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals decision to the US Supreme Court if they rule in favor of the CDC but the US Supreme Court only hears arguments in fewer than 100 of the 5000 cases appealed to them annually.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Syracusefan44

[PMGS247]

9 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

Well personally I will cruise with passengers that are not vaccinated but ... it could be that people who insist on fully vaccinated cruises are worried about a repeat of last year's drama if there's an outbreak on board with ships either sitting in a port without being able to disembark or ships sailing almost aimlessly looking for a port that will take them. So much has been learned since then that if there are cases on board, the protocols are in place that those awful scenarios are IMHO highly unlikely. However, there are still those who worry ... it's sad.

 

I've called on board outbreaks as concern because it would be annoying but I do agree it's very unlikely.  Still, more than any real concern over an outbreak situation, ultimately my desire to cruise with vaccinated passengers is to avoid masks, tests, any other annoying protocols. I get the need for them and I agree the protocols are exactly what makes the outbreaks highly unlikely...but if the protocols are lessened by only allowing vaccinated passengers then I'm all for it.

 

If I don't have to wear a mask or be tested every time I turn around and they're still confident that protocols can avoid repeats of past disembarkation challenges then I'm good with whomever they want to let on the cruise.  In order for this to be a reality though, and not put everyone through the protocols, they have to distinguish vaxxed vs unvaxxed at some point.  Just seems less complicated to do it before getting on board than somehow labeling people on board.

 

Maybe we can get away with no masks AND no vaccine requirement without having any idea who's vaxxed and who's not....I just doubt it and don't see them trying it any time in the near future.

[Steelers36]

35 minutes ago, Musky Ike said:

That's odd, I see that banner for a Nov. 2021 cruise but I looked at April and September ones for 2022 and it's not. Why would it be back again for Dec. 2022? Or did you look at Dec.2021?

I am sure he made a typo.

[Wishing on a star]

I don't know how likely it will be that the Court of Appeals will rule in favor of the CDC...  Or that it would rule in favor of FL...  Or that the Supreme Court would take the case on fast-track, if at all.

 

And, there are other possibilities and scenarios.

FL could win appeal, and then cruise lines like Princess could begin their own legal suits.

 

Right now the language on Princess web-site states that they 'intend' to go with the up-to-5% exceptions.  But, that is meaningless language.  As it seems that there are no exceptions being considered.

 

The only thing that we know is that we really DON'T know.

 

About the masks and protocols...  Some cruise lines are outlining protocols for those who do not provide adequate proof of vaccination.   So, this would have minimal effect on vaccinated cruisers.  That would really negate that point about not wanting to 'cruise with unvaccinated passengers' because of how that would effect the enjoyment of the cruise.   I would make a guess that this does have something to do with fear.  

 

This ain't over till it's over!

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[memoak]

I see no reason why Princess would abandon the 95% vaccinated rule.  If a bunch of unvaccinated passengers get infected by one of their own and an outbreak happened we would be back to pandemic status.  For those unvaccinated they need to be kept to a low amount and given limits as to what they can do.  Sorry but they are a danger to themselves and to the future of cruising.  Especially from areas where vaccination levels are super low.

[Wishing on a star]

It seems that Princess  wants to sail 100% vaccinated.

Their position seems clear.

But, what happens with this, and possible future, lawsuits, is yet to be seen.

 

If FL prevails, then Princess could choose to defy the law, and dare them to collect any fines. Princess could stop sailing from FL.   They could sue the State of FL, on the grounds that any prevailing law infringes on their rights to operate as they feel they need to, to protect the health and welfare of their passengers.  There are many different possibilities.

 

I think that any final ruling on this would then immediately become a Nationwide legal precedent.  As, this would mean that the CDC/Feds do, or do not, have the overriding authority.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Wishing on a star

[dog]

5 hours ago, Musky Ike said:

That's odd, I see that banner for a Nov. 2021 cruise but I looked at April and September ones for 2022 and it's not. Why would it be back again for Dec. 2022? Or did you look at Dec.2021?

No, for me December 2022 the banner is there. Maybe temporary?

[dog]

20 minutes ago, dog said:

No, for me December 2022 the banner is there. Maybe temporary?

Could be a glitch. I am having some trouble today with website 

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, dog said:

No, for me December 2022 the banner is there. Maybe temporary?

 

46 minutes ago, dog said:

Could be a glitch. I am having some trouble today with website 

I am thinking so, because no banners for me on checking several DEC 2022.  Also doesn't appear on our cruises we have booked for OCT 2022.  I do see the CDC banner for anything in DEC 2021.

[2 cruises a year]

2 hours ago, dog said:

Could be a glitch. I am having some trouble today with website 

Sections of our website will be unavailable due to scheduled maintenance between 11:00PM PDT on 7/9 and 01:00AM PDT on 7/10 

Anything can be happening, even now.  Even worse things can happen when they are done based on the last few months.  😁

[Ombud]

9 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

So you go out to all sorts of places with crowds of people that are not vaccinated but you won't get on a cruise ship. I don't get it.

If unvaccinated are permitted on Crown Princess in December 2019 I might cancel. It all depends on how the ship will segregate them. Yes 22% are not fully vaxed here but that's different than an unknown % on a ship. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Ombud

[KruzPrincess]

9 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

So you go out to all sorts of places with crowds of people that are not vaccinated but you won't get on a cruise ship. I don't get it.

 

But I don’t go out to all sorts of places with crowds of unvaccinated people. I’m not alone in that. I have 3 cruises booked and none of them are out of FL. I hope other states respect the cruise lines choices on what is necessary to protect their passengers and employees. 

[caribill]

If does not matter at the moment for 2022 cruises what the current battle between the state of Florida and the CDC is.

 

The CDC Conditional Sail Order is set to expire at the start of this November if not extended. It is this CSO that mandates (or suggests per the courts) the 95% vaccinated rule.

 

So what nobody knows:

a)Will the CDC CSO be extended beyond early November? If it is, what changes it might have?

b) What will Princess and other cruise lines will do once the CSO expires?  Require vaccinations? Require pre-cruise and during cruise testing? Nobody knows, not even Princess.

 

Even those who are fully vaccinated are right to be concerned about  cruising with an unknown number of unvaccinated passengers. In Texas recently a church camp of about 450 people has resulted so far in around 150 Covid-19 cases, including ten people who had been fully vaccinated. Some of the 150 with Covid-19 had been infected at the camp and some were family members and others who were infected after the camp participants came home.

 

It will take "herd immunity" to get to a point that vaccinated people can be considered safe among unvaccinated people. And that may mean up to around 90% of fully vaccinated people in the general population. In the USA so far, only about 50% of those eligible for a vaccine are fully vaccinated.

 

The 70% goal of at least one jab in eligible Americans is not a goal based on science. It is an intermediate goal to be used to encourage vaccination.

[dog]

5 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

Sections of our website will be unavailable due to scheduled maintenance between 11:00PM PDT on 7/9 and 01:00AM PDT on 7/10 

Anything can be happening, even now.  Even worse things can happen when they are done based on the last few months.  😁

Must be problem. I am having trouble on website scroll through excursions too. 

[dog]

4 hours ago, Ombud said:

If unvaccinated are permitted on Crown Princess in December 2019 I might cancel. It all depends on how the ship will segregate them. Yes 22% are not fully vaxed here but that's different than an unknown % on a ship. 

December 2021?

 

[dog]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

If does not matter at the moment for 2022 cruises what the current battle between the state of Florida and the CDC is.

 

The CDC Conditional Sail Order is set to expire at the start of this November if not extended. It is this CSO that mandates (or suggests per the courts) the 95% vaccinated rule.

 

So what nobody knows:

a)Will the CDC CSO be extended beyond early November? If it is, what changes it might have?

b) What will Princess and other cruise lines will do once the CSO expires?  Require vaccinations? Require pre-cruise and during cruise testing? Nobody knows, not even Princess.

 

Even those who are fully vaccinated are right to be concerned about  cruising with an unknown number of unvaccinated passengers. In Texas recently a church camp of about 450 people has resulted so far in around 150 Covid-19 cases, including ten people who had been fully vaccinated. Some of the 150 with Covid-19 had been infected at the camp and some were family members and others who were infected after the camp participants came home.

 

It will take "herd immunity" to get to a point that vaccinated people can be considered safe among unvaccinated people. And that may mean up to around 90% of fully vaccinated people in the general population. In the USA so far, only about 50% of those eligible for a vaccine are fully vaccinated.

 

The 70% goal of at least one jab in eligible Americans is not a goal based on science. It is an intermediate goal to be used to encourage vaccination.

Right, nobody knows

 

good points made. 

[Ombud]

55 minutes ago, dog said:

5 hours ago, Ombud said:

If unvaccinated are permitted on Crown Princess in December 2019 I might cancel. It all depends on how the ship will segregate them. Yes 22% are not fully vaxed here but that's different than an unknown % on a ship. 

Expand  

December 2021?

Yes. 2021. I'm having 2nd thoughts on that one

[ontheweb]

40 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Yes. 2021. I'm having 2nd thoughts on that one

You would have needed a time machine to do the December 2019 cruise.🤣 And no one would be vaccinated, but unless it was a long world cruise for several months, you should have been safe.

[Jemnibabe]

8 hours ago, caribill said:

If does not matter at the moment for 2022 cruises what the current battle between the state of Florida and the CDC is.

 

The CDC Conditional Sail Order is set to expire at the start of this November if not extended. It is this CSO that mandates (or suggests per the courts) the 95% vaccinated rule.

 

So what nobody knows:

a)Will the CDC CSO be extended beyond early November? If it is, what changes it might have?

b) What will Princess and other cruise lines will do once the CSO expires?  Require vaccinations? Require pre-cruise and during cruise testing? Nobody knows, not even Princess.

 

Even those who are fully vaccinated are right to be concerned about  cruising with an unknown number of unvaccinated passengers. In Texas recently a church camp of about 450 people has resulted so far in around 150 Covid-19 cases, including ten people who had been fully vaccinated. Some of the 150 with Covid-19 had been infected at the camp and some were family members and others who were infected after the camp participants came home.

 

It will take "herd immunity" to get to a point that vaccinated people can be considered safe among unvaccinated people. And that may mean up to around 90% of fully vaccinated people in the general population. In the USA so far, only about 50% of those eligible for a vaccine are fully vaccinated.

 

The 70% goal of at least one jab in eligible Americans is not a goal based on science. It is an intermediate goal to be used to encourage vaccination.

Excellent post with many good points and now let me add another concern, which is very unpredictable at this point.  Many cruisers are older and have immunsupressed illnesses so they are not necessarily 95% covered for the original covid virus and now, with the spread of the Delta variant, we are only about 64% covered.  And not everyone that is vaccinated is out mixing and mingling with unvaccinated people.  Some people who are vaccinated have fears of the unknown especially since we are hearing more and more about vaccinated people having breakthru cases and dying.  So, I think it is only fair for those of us who might not be the healthiest specimen to be somewhat cautious about sailing with unvaccinated people.  Just my truthful thoughts.

 

Judy from SW Florida

 

[Wishing on a star]

And, the current CDC Conditional Sail Order may or may not be in effect, based on any Appeals Court Ruling.   FL came out ahead in round one...  Didn't the judge rule that the CSO was in effect until the end of July??? (or was it July18th)  And the CDC immediately appealed.  It would seem that any future cruising will be contingent on any rulings on appeal.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Wishing on a star