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Mixed Vaccines


MaddyandMax
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9 hours ago, Robjame said:

The situation is a little more complex than this. Even the EU digital green passport does not approve of the AZ vaccine if it was made in India - only that made in the EU. The FCC has requested results of a large trial by AZ which have not yet been provided.

 

 

 

As of yesterday, I read the Covishield vaccine, which is the AZ version manufactured by the Serum Institute of India, is now approved by 13 EU countries and a number of additional non-EU countries. Once general travel to Europe is permitted, persons vaccinated with Covishield are eligible to travel to those countries, with whatever additional requirements are necessary. Covishield is WHO approved.

 

Yes, the EU digital green passport at this time only accepts 4 vaccines and Covishield is currently not one of them. However, this document to to facilitate travel by EU citizens within the EU block. At this time, I read it is not relevant for international travel into the EU.

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I am waiting as I hear that Carnival is making an announcement this week.

 

With that said I am seriously considering looking into getting a 3rd dose, 2nd Pfizer. and thus have 2 Pfizer doses and thus be "FULLY VACCINATED."

 

As I watch the Ottawa news they are talking about so much supply and not that much demand. I am planning on calling the Vaccine booking number and asking that question.

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5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

At the end of the day, the CDC bases its direction to the cruise lines on the lists of vaccines approved by the FDA and the WHO. Currently, neither has approved a 2 vaccine combination. Until such time as there are proper trials run on combinations and approvals forthcoming, neither the CDC nor the cruise lines are going to accept them. The GOC can exert pressure on the WHO to bring about change, so as I said in my earlier post, if you want to make a difference, write to your MP, not your cruise line.

 

The WHO panel of experts (SAGE) still recommend getting 2 doses of similar vaccines, but they also address the mixing of vaccines. The SAGE reports dated 15th June clearly states that when 2 different vaccines are administered, no additional dose of either vaccine is required. Therefore, if another dose is not required, the WHO panel of experts considers those of us with mixed doses fully vaccinated. The WHO defers to local Health Authorities for accepting mixed doses and longer intervals between doses.

 

They also recognise that mixed vaccine trials are ongoing and will update recommendations accordingly.

 

Our preferred cruise line initially stated acceptance of FDA approved vaccines, but quickly changed to WHO & FDA. Since both AZ & Moderna are WHO approved, I do not anticipate any issues.

 

The US CDC only provides direction to cruise ships operating in US Territorial Waters. At this time, this is very few ships. Most cruise ships currently operating are not in US waters, so couldn't care what the US CDC dictates.

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22 hours ago, MaddyandMax said:

This is something else I’ve been considering from something someone else said. Do we need both slips when the last one indicates we received two doses?  If not, the indication on the second slip is both my vaccines were moderna. But I don’t like playing games. Especially when I am, in fact, fully vaccinated. 

 

I am wondering about the second sheet, that indicates that we have 2 doses of Moderna. Although our first dose was AstraZeneca. What if they ask us to show the first sheet at the check in? Wouldn't that verify that we are mixed vaccinated people? I would hate to spend the money on the flight, arrive at the Bahamas (for Adventure of the Seas), and be told we are not fully vaccinated because they ask to see both sheets.

 

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Just now, gam888 said:

 

I am wondering about the second sheet, that indicates that we have 2 doses of Moderna. Although our first dose was AstraZeneca. What if they ask us to show the first sheet at the check in? Wouldn't that verify that we are mixed vaccinated people? I would hate to spend the money on the flight, arrive at the Bahamas (for Adventure of the Seas), and be told we are not fully vaccinated because they ask to see both sheets.

 

If the policy is the same as Carnival Corporation you will need to show both sheets as they want to see the dates that each vaccines was given, type, where it was given and that names match travel documents.

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3 minutes ago, gam888 said:

 

I am wondering about the second sheet, that indicates that we have 2 doses of Moderna. Although our first dose was AstraZeneca. What if they ask us to show the first sheet at the check in? Wouldn't that verify that we are mixed vaccinated people? I would hate to spend the money on the flight, arrive at the Bahamas (for Adventure of the Seas), and be told we are not fully vaccinated because they ask to see both sheets.

 

This is the problem.  I personally would never chance it.  But I will NEVER cruise with the status "unvaccinated". 

 

This is all because of the CDC.  They haven't done their own testing of mixed vaccines yet.  But why would they need too?  Americans were very lucky to have a steady stream of vaccines unlike a lot of countries.  So they they want to be able to travel to other places, like Canada, and want us to accept their vaccines, they should be accepting ours.  Other countries have done studies.  Reviewing those studies should be enough for the CDC at this point.  NACI should be advocating for Canadians when this is their fault.

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13 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Our preferred cruise line initially stated acceptance of FDA approved vaccines, but quickly changed to WHO & FDA. Since both AZ & Moderna are WHO approved, I do not anticipate any issues.

I admire your optimism, but it flies in the face of reality. Both AZ and Moderna are approved for two doses of a single vaccine, but the WHO has never approved a mixed vaccination. If you anticipate no problems with your AZ-Moderna mix, you might be in for a surprise. In any event, I wish you the best and hope that this issue is resolved soon for the sake of all Canadians with mixed vaccinations.

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3 minutes ago, gam888 said:

 

I am wondering about the second sheet, that indicates that we have 2 doses of Moderna. Although our first dose was AstraZeneca. What if they ask us to show the first sheet at the check in? Wouldn't that verify that we are mixed vaccinated people? I would hate to spend the money on the flight, arrive at the Bahamas (for Adventure of the Seas), and be told we are not fully vaccinated because they ask to see both sheets.

 

I have heard on other boards that they are asking for both sheets. I just can't imagine showing up at the ship, presenting evidence of two doses and them turning someone away as they don't have their first dose sheet.  gosh this is so concerning.  I hope it gets sorted soon.

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2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I admire your optimism, but it flies in the face of reality. Both AZ and Moderna are approved for two doses of a single vaccine, but the WHO has never approved a mixed vaccination. 

 

As I previously noted, the WHO panel of experts (SAGE) issued reports on 15th June that included sections on mixed vaccines. They clearly state that where mixed vaccines are given, you do NOT require an additional dose of either vaccine. Therefore, the WHO panel of experts consider those of us with mixed vaccines as fully vaccinated.

 

I agree, at this time, the WHO only "Recommend" getting 2 doses of the same vaccine, but they also state it should be within the manufacturer time limits. Most of the vaccines given in Canada & UK, and many in Europe don't meet the WHO recommendation. Even Canadians that received 2 similar doses, at a longer interval than OEM recommendation, do not meet the WHO recommendation.

 

By delegating authority to local health agencies and stating mixed vaccines do not require an additional jab, the WHO is accepting both mixing vaccines and delaying shots. They may not recommend the mixing, or delay, but they clearly approve.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

As I previously noted, the WHO panel of experts (SAGE) issued reports on 15th June that included sections on mixed vaccines. They clearly state that where mixed vaccines are given, you do NOT require an additional dose of either vaccine. Therefore, the WHO panel of experts consider those of us with mixed vaccines as fully vaccinated.

 

I agree, at this time, the WHO only "Recommend" getting 2 doses of the same vaccine, but they also state it should be within the manufacturer time limits. Most of the vaccines given in Canada & UK, and many in Europe don't meet the WHO recommendation. Even Canadians that received 2 similar doses, at a longer interval than OEM recommendation, do not meet the WHO recommendation.

 

By delegating authority to local health agencies and stating mixed vaccines do not require an additional jab, the WHO is accepting both mixing vaccines and delaying shots. They may not recommend the mixing, or delay, but they clearly approve.

 

 

SAGE has no executive or regulatory function. Its sole role is to provide advice and recommendations to the Director-General of WHO. Consequently, until such time as the WHO approves mixed vaccinations, what SAGE members consider to be fully vaccinated is rather immaterial.

 

You clearly have a vested interest in this, whereas with double Moderna shots, I am able to take a somewhat more objective look at the situation. My view from the outset has been that any Canadian resolution of the issue can only come at the federal level and I've suggested that if you are going to write to someone, make it your local MP, not Michael Bayley. 

 

As I said previously, I wish you the best and hope that this issue is resolved soon for the sake of all Canadians with mixed vaccinations.

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21 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

SAGE has no executive or regulatory function. Its sole role is to provide advice and recommendations to the Director-General of WHO. Consequently, until such time as the WHO approves mixed vaccinations, what SAGE members consider to be fully vaccinated is rather immaterial.

 

You clearly have a vested interest in this, whereas with double Moderna shots, I am able to take a somewhat more objective look at the situation. My view from the outset has been that any Canadian resolution of the issue can only come at the federal level and I've suggested that if you are going to write to someone, make it your local MP, not Michael Bayley. 

 

As I said previously, I wish you the best and hope that this issue is resolved soon for the sake of all Canadians with mixed vaccinations.

 

Yes, SAGE is a panel of experts providing advice and recommendations to the Administrators.

 

WHO published updated Interim Recommendations, stating that they were developed based on advice from the SAGE group and external contributions. These updated interim recommendations are now WHO policy.

 

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-vaccines-SAGE_recommendation-BNT162b2-2021.1

 

They have a similar document for Moderna.

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On 7/17/2021 at 1:18 PM, pixiedust777 said:

Supposed to cruise in August. We are paid in full.

If this is the case that they have changed the stance on who is classified as fully vaccinated I had better get a refund and not an FCC.

This is not my choice. I booked being told we were fully vaccinated and good to go.

 

We are paid in full for a Sept Alaska cruise. My husband and I both had AstraZeneca and Pfizer. It doesn't matter who changed the rules, if the cruise lines prevent us from sailing, they should refund and not give a FCC. What good is a FCC if they don't change the rules and prevent us for using a FCC?

 

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11 minutes ago, Ciren219 said:

 

We are paid in full for a Sept Alaska cruise. My husband and I both had AstraZeneca and Pfizer. It doesn't matter who changed the rules, if the cruise lines prevent us from sailing, they should refund and not give a FCC. What good is a FCC if they don't change the rules and prevent us for using a FCC?

 

Have you called Celebrity to see what your options are?
I have been waiting all day for my PVC to call me back.

Will give her to day to respond and if not I will call the Captains club tomorrow.

We are supposed to leave in 18 days to FLL.

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3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Yes, SAGE is a panel of experts providing advice and recommendations to the Administrators.

 

WHO published updated Interim Recommendations, stating that they were developed based on advice from the SAGE group and external contributions. These updated interim recommendations are now WHO policy.

 

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-vaccines-SAGE_recommendation-BNT162b2-2021.1

 

They have a similar document for Moderna.

OK, this is my last response, so have at it once you've finished reading it, but I won't be responding any more.

 

You are correct, the WHO updated its interim recommendations on June 15, and this is what it had to say about Pfizer and mixed vaccinations:

 

Interchangeability with other vaccines

It is currently recommended that the same product should be used for both doses. If different COVID-19 vaccine products are inadvertently administered in the two doses, no additional doses of either vaccine are recommended at this time. Heterologous (mix-and-match) studies are ongoing with regards to the interchangeability of this vaccine with other COVID-19 vaccines. Preliminary results from a heterologous priming schedule where BNT162b2 was given as the second dose following a first dose of ChAdOx1-S [recombinant] vaccine showed a slightly increased but acceptable reactogenicity with superior or similar immunogenicity results, thus supporting the use of such a heterologous priming schedule in settings where the second dose for the ChAdOx1-S [recombinant] vaccine is not available due to vaccine supply constraints or other concerns (17, 18).

 

Recommendations will be updated as further information becomes available on interchangeability between vaccine products and platforms.

 

In plain English then, the WHO acknowledges ongoing studies on the question of interchangeability, and will update its recommendations once further information becomes available on interchangeability, but for the time being recommends that the Pfizer vaccine only be used for both doses.

 

The June 15 update for Moderna contains similar language:

 

Interchangeability with other vaccines

Heterologous (mix-and-match) studies are ongoing with regards to the interchangeability of this vaccine with other COVID-19 vaccine platforms. It is currently recommended that the same product should be used for both doses. If different COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in the two doses, no additional doses of either vaccine are recommended at this time. Recommendations may be updated as further information becomes available on interchangeability.

 

To conclude, the WHO clearly does not recommend mixing vaccines at the current time. End of story

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43 minutes ago, Ciren219 said:

I booked being told we were fully vaccinated and good to go.

Who told you this as I would think you have a genuine case against them?

I know with our preferred cruise line the onus is on us to prove we are fully vaccinated.

 

I can understand why you would be upset!

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45 minutes ago, pixiedust777 said:

Have you called Celebrity to see what your options are?
I have been waiting all day for my PVC to call me back.

Will give her to day to respond and if not I will call the Captains club tomorrow.

We are supposed to leave in 18 days to FLL.

 

I haven't phoned Celebrity yet. I figured their phone lined are jammed and I thought I'd let the dust settle and see what happens in the next few weeks. I'm only concerned about my Sept cruise right now but have 5 other cruises booked over the next 10 months.

 

I have b2b cruises on the Apex in Dec and I won't book airline tickets or a hotel until closer to the date. Things are changing so often that it's hard to keep up with the news.

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45 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Interchangeability with other vaccines

Heterologous (mix-and-match) studies are ongoing with regards to the interchangeability of this vaccine with other COVID-19 vaccine platforms. It is currently recommended that the same product should be used for both doses. If different COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in the two doses, no additional doses of either vaccine are recommended at this time. Recommendations may be updated as further information becomes available on interchangeability.

You didn’t highlight the section that I have highlighted in bold italics above. If they aren’t recommending additional doses of either vaccine they are admitting that you are fully vaccinated. 

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1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

You didn’t highlight the section that I have highlighted in bold italics above. If they aren’t recommending additional doses of either vaccine they are admitting that you are fully vaccinated. 

I understand that the intent of that sentence is to caution against people with an AZ-Pfizer combo going out and seeking a second Pfizer shot. They don't recommend doing so, just as they don't recommend mixed doses.

 

I don't think it's an indication of admitting that you are fully vaccinated as much as an indication of the WHO's concern that having a third jab might have negative consequences as yet not determined.

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1 hour ago, ddtravel2013 said:

Has Celebrity removed their policy on mixed vacc. ? I don't see it anymore.

 

https://www.celebritycruises.com/healthy-at-sea/faqs :

 

 

Will I be considered fully vaccinated if my first dose of the Covid-19 vaccine is from one manufacturer and the second dose is from another?

No, at this time, Celebrity Cruises does not accept mixed doses of the Covid-19 vaccine.

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33 minutes ago, gam888 said:

 

In Canada at least there was so many mixed messages going out for the last 17 months. It was and still is exhausting.

This just proves that many other people are dealing with mixed messages and it just increases vaccine hesistency. 

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