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Norwegian Cruise Line sues Florida surgeon general over ‘vaccine-passport’ ban


RocketMan275
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14 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

no offense to royal but screw all that!!!! 

We have a winner!!  I doubt anybody could capture our collective thoughts any better than that!

 

Yet, we STILL have folks arguing for that hot mess versus a totally mask free normal cruise on NCL!  I really wish they all would just go to other lines, because they really don't sound like the types of fun/hip folks whose company the rest of us would enjoy.

 

PS: I really don't believe that the detractors have any plans to sail anytime soon.  They're just starting stuff....

Edited by ChiefMateJRK
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8 minutes ago, aubreyc1988 said:

Yep. another reason I really don't wanna do all that is I'm vaccinated now, it's like a reward that I can go out in public and not wear a mask and go see shows and such.  

I got the same reward without taking the shot.

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44 minutes ago, Old & Retired said:

I got the same reward without taking the shot.

Apparently, you can't "not wear a mask and go see shows and such" on an NCL cruise with the rest of us.  We'll miss you!

Edited by ChiefMateJRK
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“You are being asked to "volunteer" proof of vaccination at the pier. If you do not offer said proof, you are treated as unvaccinated…”

 

I absolutely agree with NCL and think all cruise lines should have done this as a united industry.  
 

The “workaround” protocols are working (and 🤞they continue to work), but with the variant spreading rapidly it is only a matter of time before an outbreak happens on board a ship.  The industry can’t afford another shutdown and they need a more definitive long-term approach.  
 

The Gov. of FL is shooting himself in the foot.  He needs to get out of the way and let the industry run its business in the safest way possible. 
 

I have a cruise booked but am less than comfortable knowing that the restrictions for unvaxed passengers are not being followed consistently after boarding.  That is a recipe for a cluster (    ).  

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9 hours ago, skywonder said:

This is just dumb, it is just going to make a bigger mess then it is already. Del Rio has no sense. If anything its going to slow things down and drag this mess out even longer.

I disagree.  I feel like an industry wide standard is desperately needed and so far what we have is a patchwork of band-aid solutions created by each cruise line just to get back in the water. 
 

A solid, clear set of protocols is needed to eliminate all the confusion and hostility that is being spawned out of all the stress of it.  The current inconsistent protocols are making vaxed and unvaxed passengers feel like enemies.  The authority for the industry  (CLIA) has had over a year to sit down with all the cruise lines, state and federal government agencies to work this out.  Nothing got done. 
 

Kudos to Frank DelRio.  So far he is the only one who has had the hutzpah to tackle this head-on.  Good luck NCL!

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1 hour ago, SheSailsFL said:

 

“You are being asked to "volunteer" proof of vaccination at the pier. If you do not offer said proof, you are treated as unvaccinated…”

 

I absolutely agree with NCL and think all cruise lines should have done this as a united industry.  
 

The “workaround” protocols are working (and 🤞they continue to work), but with the variant spreading rapidly it is only a matter of time before an outbreak happens on board a ship.  The industry can’t afford another shutdown and they need a more definitive long-term approach.  
 

The Gov. of FL is shooting himself in the foot.  He needs to get out of the way and let the industry run its business in the safest way possible. 
 

I have a cruise booked but am less than comfortable knowing that the restrictions for unvaxed passengers are not being followed consistently after boarding.  That is a recipe for a cluster (    ).  

Completely agree .  NCL is giving the FL Governor one last chance to do the right, decent and humane thing before he ruins the cruise industry in Florida.

I feel very sad for our society when politics trumps health and well being

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13 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

FYI Cruise Critic is mentioned by name in the filing of the complaint, it's on page 11.

😃

"86.  A recent survey of more than 5,000 readers of Cruise Critic found that 80% of respondents preferred to sail on a ship with a vaccine requirement, and the industry is dealing with significant uncertainty as the summer sailing season proceeds"

 

The Cruise Critic Community is having an impact.

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NCL what took you so long?  No one should be able to use the power of the bureaucratic state to hurt businesses and then say "who cares if you leave the state."
IMHO, all cruise lines should have filed together against Florida and this insanity of trying to prevent cruising from resuming so passengers can feel safe.

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6 hours ago, dswallow said:



It doesn't matter if other cruise lines have decided to find ways to sail, typically with fewer than 100% vaccinated passengers. NCL has decided they do not want to place their passengers at risk because Florida law is forcing them to ignore the public health.

In fact, other cruise lines are requiring vaccination in every sailing from other ports, outside of Florida. It would seem likely those same cruise lines would prefer to have that policy on sailing from within Florida. Perhaps it is worth questioning why they are not following this path that NCL has chosen. It may, for example, be in part because the cruise lines are currently benefiting from Florida providing vaccination doses, and if they were to take an adversarial position, perhaps they feel it would put that at risk. Just one thought about motivations.

 

 

Please provide evidence that mixed cruises are a danger to Public Health.

The only times cruise lines are sailing 100% vaccinated, I believe, are when the local gov't requires it.  There are examples of mixed cruises that have been happening since August.

Edited by KennyFla
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16 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

NCL what took you so long?  No one should be able to use the power of the bureaucratic state to hurt businesses and then say "who cares if you leave the state."
 

Have you heard of the CDC?

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12 hours ago, wally4ever said:

Speaking as a hopeful first-time cruiser in December and parent of a 9 year old, I wish NCL would make allowances for children who literally cannot get vaccinated, but I get their stance, and if I have to cancel, I have to cancel... I just hope they let me know for sure more than 60 days before.

 

I hope you get what you want news-wise so you can make an appropriate decision, but two other things might happen along the way:

 

  1. One or more of the current vaccines might be approved for use in children of your child's age.  Then it would become your decision to get the shot(s) for them and cruise, or not and not.
  2. NCL's 100% vaccinated policy only applies through October 31.  It could be modified or rescinded at any time.  Then you can adjust to the new reality.
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If you want to know why Florida took the stance it did, it is because of people like this:

 

 

Obama HHS Director Kathleen Sebelius

 

“We’re in a situation where we have a wildly effective vaccine, multiple choices, lots available, free of charge, and we have folks who are just saying I won’t do it. I think that it’s time to say to those folks, it’s fine if you don’t choose to get vaccinated. You may not come to work. You may not have access to a situation where you’re going to put my grandchildren in jeopardy. Where you might kill them, or you might put them in a situation where they’re going to carry the virus to someone in a high-risk position.”

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I think NCLs goals are 2 fold.  

1) Go with 100% vaccinated and run 100% capacity so everything on the ship is the same as before.

2) Challenge Florida's law that the state can interfere with their business on their ships.

 

If #2 is successful in court then any follow up laws will be ruled unconstitutional.  

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6 hours ago, dswallow said:

 

Florida sued Xavier Becerra, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and Rochelle Walensky, the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In their official capacity of the respective agencies. Not the HHS, and not the CDC.

 

Same with suing the Florida State Surgeon General, in his official capacity as Director of the Florida Department of Health, the agency responsible for enforcing the law the suit is seeking to invalidate.

 

That's how it's done.

It’s different.  Florida wasn’t challenging a law. Their case was about the overreach of specific  government agencies.  Bureaucracy run amok.  But NCL is fighting an actual LAW and suing the agency that is enforcing the law.  Totally pointless.

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40 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Please provide evidence that mixed cruises are a danger to Public Health.

The only times cruise lines are sailing 100% vaccinated, I believe, are when the local gov't requires it.  There are examples of mixed cruises that have been happening since August.

Fact check…the ships that have sailed since July have sailed at 94-99% vaccinated.  It was their business decision.  So you honestly think the cruise lines would drop all vaccine requirements if they were not following CDC guidelines?  I highly doubt that. They have to mitigate risks to their bottom line, which in this case is mitigating the risk of an outbreak occurring on their ship.  Until the risk is minimized or eliminated.  It can’t be eliminated because the antivaxers are playing host to the virus and sharing it with others. 🤦🏼‍♀️ 🤷‍♀️

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9 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Are you sure that's what the CDC requires?

Actually yes it is the cdc who requires masks if vaccinated is under 95%. Have you looked at the cso?

 

Rcl pax some are really upset that rcl isnt going the 95% route and they have to ear masks walking around.

 

It happened by chance I have carnival next, but I'm very happy they decided to cancel most kids and get to that 95% so we can go maskless around the ship. I know some here are upset carnival even has buffets self serve, back to normal cruising. 

 

Dec I hope things change and I can drop the mask on rcl. I do hope the cdc gets out of the way and let's the cso expire. The 95% and masks come from the CDC. Not from florida. It's not florida affecting my cruises. Yes of course I'm sure. 

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1 hour ago, david_sobe said:


IMHO, all cruise lines should have filed together against Florida and this insanity of trying to prevent cruising from resuming so passengers can feel safe.

Rcl and ccl both have resumed. They are asking vaccinated status. You can voluntarily give it if you want to cruise.

 

Florida isnt trying to prevent cruising except in your mind.

 

I see utube videos of carnival and cant wait to step aboard a normal cruise. Dinners served a bit slow, steak house overbooked, some things to work thru, but sept I'll be cruising normal. Masks required in the terminal and to shop in ports, but on the ship.. no masks. All the dire warnings about no buffets ..they are back. I got drink packages sept and first leg in oct and sept loads of obc. I'm going to have a great cruise. People on carnival are having a great time. I've already been asked if I'm vaccinated,  and yes I'm ready to cruise.

 

Ncl trying to prove they alone cant ask for vaccinations but other lines are asking .. do they really think they can stand alone and make florida change their laws. Yes, alone. The bigger cruiselines did not join this suit. Its ncl going it alone. I'm so glad I have carnival and then rcl booked and cruises look good, all my ships restarted, well breeze restarts tomorrow. Worry if gone. 

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24 minutes ago, SheSailsFL said:

Fact check…the ships that have sailed since July have sailed at 94-99% vaccinated.  It was their business decision.  So you honestly think the cruise lines would drop all vaccine requirements if they were not following CDC guidelines?  I highly doubt that. They have to mitigate risks to their bottom line, which in this case is mitigating the risk of an outbreak occurring on their ship.  Until the risk is minimized or eliminated.  It can’t be eliminated because the antivaxers are playing host to the virus and sharing it with others. 🤦🏼‍♀️ 🤷‍♀️

Fact check: Ships have been sailing in the Mediterranean since August, by now well over 500,000 passengers with no outbreaks, very few positives.

I agree the cruise lines have to mitigate risks, which is why I think the compromise everybody except NCL is using seems to work.

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17 hours ago, dswallow said:

 

Thanks for the paywall-free links.

 

Wow, maybe the Complaint and Motion for Preliminary Injunction might have had a better chance when the Executive Order, then the Law, were issued or passed (approaching effective date).  However, these filings look "silly" in their root assertions that "they" (emphasis, only they) can't resume cruising since other cruise lines "are" sailing.

 

IANAL, however, I'm leaning towards failure at the Motion for Preliminary Injunction at this time.

 

I'm also leaning towards NCL filing other court documents (i.e., "reorganization" due to financial distress) in other venues before this Complaint is even heard and ruled on.

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17 hours ago, davencl said:

In NCL's defense if they didn't require 100% I would cancel my current reservations.

 

Well you and 42 others will surely have a socially distanced cruise capacity.  😉

 

Meanwhile, I can't even get a flight without the risk of a 75+ lb shoulder and side overhang into my seat area to get to a cruise.  🤫

 

 

42.JPG.4379cb9501dd890fa636d0a14dcbf156.JPG

 

Edited by At Sea At Peace
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15 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

There goes our September cruise out of Miami. I can just see NCL cancelling cruises as they fight this out in court. Good news is our final payment isn't due till next week. 😃I support NCL, too, but this doesn't bode well for upcoming sailings. 😟

 

IMO, I wouldn't recommend anyone 'make a final payment' to NCL at this time given the uncertainty of their financial situation and the similar uncertainty of the 'creditor' status of the 'customer deposits' should the 'wave hit the fan.'

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7 hours ago, Old & Retired said:

I got the same reward without taking the shot.

you got the same reward BECAUSE people like me got the shot. You're welcome. But I digress from the topic at hand. 

Edited by aubreyc1988
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7 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

Maybe Walmart, Costco and the big food stores in Florida will also sue Florida.

 

DON

Yeah, for sure.  They want to make sure 50% of their customer base can not get into their stores.

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