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NCLH sues Florida over vaccine passport ban


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18 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I will not argue any legalities here, though I suppose I could. What I will say is that we will not board a cruise without 100% of guests and crew having proof of vaccination. We are far from alone in this. We are fully vaccinated (two jabs) and feel the vaccine is highly effective. We don't greatly fear catching the disease from the unvaccinated. The fear is an outbreak among the unvaccinated and the ship being quarantined and not allowed to dock anywhere -- as happened last year. Regardless of this issue in FL, I hope Regent requires proof of vaccination on all its cruises that do not touch FL. We know that proof of vaccination via CDC cards is not perfect, but is the only system we have, and it is better than nothing.

Absolutely agree with you, Dolebludger. We would absolutely not want to have to go into a quarantine/locked-out scenario should an outbreak occur. We are also fully vaccinated (Feb. 1 was second shots) and although we feel safe for ourselves, we would still want assurance that all passengers and crew had their jabs. Our Splendor cruise of last June was cancelled and we are "itching" to get onboard again, but only as soon as we have a 100% comfort level that the cruise would be able to sail "as planned". 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Got2Cruise said:

I’m not too certain NCL will cancel the cruises from FL if they lose the case. It will be impossible to compete with the other lines and stay in business. 

I agree.  Let's hope they win.

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I am rooting for NCL to win. We are scheduled on Splendor on December 8th..out of Miami..

However, we are also scheduled on Celebrity Edge, sailing on August 7th, out of Fort Lauderdale..95% rule plus 100% of crew works for us. The 5% must jump through so many hoops, including separate dining areas and theater. Plus three tests paid for by the guest. This gets around the Florida law and seems to be working well. 
Unless the departure and arrival city is reachable by car for us, we will not sail with that cruise line. 
Several problems with Caribbean island departures are the local rules and regs regarding all that pre testing. 
If Regent reschedules in the US, outside of Florida, that would be the best decision for them. 

so…if we must become Celebrity cruisers again, we will be disappointed but continue to sail. 
Shame on my state for all this nonsense. 
sheila

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

 
Shame on my state for all this nonsense. 
sheila

Shame on NCLH for not going with the flow and using the same workaround as its competitors.  Although both are being stubborn, I am a strong supporter of the Florida (and Texas) law.

Edited by mrlevin
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20 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Shame on NCLH for not going with the flow and using the same workaround as its competitors.  Although both are being stubborn, I am a strong supporter of the Florida (and Texas) law.

Sorry but I disagree with you, I want to cruise with people that care about the health of all—just because someone doesn’t want be vaccinated - I for one don’t want to be on the same ship.  Good for NCLH.  Everyone is is entitled to an opinion.

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I am not saying that the CCL and RCCL  will fail and cause problem cruises like some last year. The evidence is not in yet. I only feel that there is too much risk in the ‘’work around” to book with it in place until a significant successful track record is established.  I do feel confident in NCLH’s 100% vaccinated plan. I am comfortable with our city’s current status of abandoning masks and other protocols with only 55% fully vaccinated (honor system) because a small city in rural CO is not like a cruise ship and is not subject to full quarantine and “no dock” actions. For example, we had an outbreak of 10 unvaccinated people and one death recently at a car dealership. If that had happened on a ship, the guests would all have been quarantined and denied docking. But in this city, the dealership was merely required to close for a time and involved persons were required to quarantine. I trust the vaccine I have had, and have no real fear of catching this disease under the “work around”. What concerns me I serious cruise disruption should an outbreak like the one in our city should happen during the cruise.

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As recently conveyed to our TA:  

 

Put on my old Army hat (that part of the uniform still fits) as to organizational Contingency Plans.  From that perspective--

 

Cannot believe NCLH would have filed that action in Federal Court (Plan A) without having a viable fall-back position (Plan B) which is more than a hope.  Because, Hope is not a Plan.  Case in Point:  Spanish Armada.  Trust in the Lord for things to work out, and favorable winds/weather in the Channel, opined the Spanish Admiral.  

 

Instant situation.  I put my trust (hope) at this point with NCLH having Plan B already-ready to be implemented.  Because, as Graf Helmuth von Moltke, The Elder, (Chief of Staff, Prussian Army)  opined:  "No battle Plan ever survived first contact with the enemy."  

 

This particular battle will drag on, and on in the Courts.  Regent wants, at some point, to get Explorer and Mariner out of the 'Med and into the World's Oceans.  Cannot count on a favorable Court ruling within the next 30-60 days at the District Court level to be dispositive; as the loosing side will probably appeal.  Thus, more litigation. 

 

So--Plan B.  That would be modifying aspects of upcoming November-December-January Explorer and Mariner itineraries as to either embarkation or debarkation Ports which avoid Florida.  Charleston, SC comes to mind; as well as Puerto Rico.  Trust Regent has-already scoped this out to identify, and confirm alternate Ports.  

 

Time will tell.  We still have hopes of being aboard Explorer on October 31st for that TA crossing to---?

 

GOARMY!

  

 

 

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On the one hand, I don't understand why the lawsuit was not instigated several months ago so the issue might be settled or much closer to that point than is now present. The other point to consider is that the public has no knowledge of what back channel/back door discussions are taking place so all parties can save face and NCLH sails from Florida. Unless its unlike every similar dispute I have been involved in, discussions are taking place.

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42 minutes ago, GOARMY said:

As recently conveyed to our TA:  

 

Put on my old Army hat (that part of the uniform still fits) as to organizational Contingency Plans.  From that perspective--

 

Cannot believe NCLH would have filed that action in Federal Court (Plan A) without having a viable fall-back position (Plan B) which is more than a hope.  Because, Hope is not a Plan.  Case in Point:  Spanish Armada.  Trust in the Lord for things to work out, and favorable winds/weather in the Channel, opined the Spanish Admiral.  

 

Instant situation.  I put my trust (hope) at this point with NCLH having Plan B already-ready to be implemented.  Because, as Graf Helmuth von Moltke, The Elder, (Chief of Staff, Prussian Army)  opined:  "No battle Plan ever survived first contact with the enemy."  

 

This particular battle will drag on, and on in the Courts.  Regent wants, at some point, to get Explorer and Mariner out of the 'Med and into the World's Oceans.  Cannot count on a favorable Court ruling within the next 30-60 days at the District Court level to be dispositive; as the loosing side will probably appeal.  Thus, more litigation. 

 

So--Plan B.  That would be modifying aspects of upcoming November-December-January Explorer and Mariner itineraries as to either embarkation or debarkation Ports which avoid Florida.  Charleston, SC comes to mind; as well as Puerto Rico.  Trust Regent has-already scoped this out to identify, and confirm alternate Ports.  

 

Time will tell.  We still have hopes of being aboard Explorer on October 31st for that TA crossing to---?

 

GOARMY!

  

 

 

This makes sense considering that Regent (and our TA, not sure about anyone else's) have not been pushing sales on our cruise nor any other 2021 itinerary.  Only 2022 and later itineraries are being actively advertised. Hoping that changes/decisions as to embarkation/disembarkation ports are announced soon because my A personality type is going bonkers with all the unknowns!

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2 hours ago, GOARMY said:

So--Plan B.  That would be modifying aspects of upcoming November-December-January Explorer and Mariner itineraries as to either embarkation or debarkation Ports which avoid Florida.  Charleston, SC comes to mind; as well as Puerto Rico.  Trust Regent has-already scoped this out to identify, and confirm alternate Ports.  

 

Time will tell.  We still have hopes of being aboard Explorer on October 31st for that TA crossing to---?

 

GOARMY!

  

 

 

Hi Army - Charleston, as an alternative to Miami, would suite me just fine.  😜  But if that was going to become the "new reality", I would just hope that Regent would at least give me (and the other 3 folks in our travel party) a couple of months advance notice in order to rebook our outbound flight (not Regent) from Phoenix to MIA.  I'm not worried about the return flight from SFO back to PHX.  Best Regards.

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GOARMY;  as a former USAF officer and a lawyer, I totally agree with you. There is zero chance of NCLH getting ability to sail with 100% vaccinated guests (with some proof) from or to FL. through the courts by its scheduled 15 Nov. departure from FL. Courts are backed up due to the pandemic, and should be hiring judges right and left, and they aren’t. But this is a subject for another forum, except that the delay in legal process is relevant to cruising in this case. Regent either isn’t going to sail from or to FL any time soon requiring proof of vaccination,  and it should be looking for other US ports.

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12 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

and it should be looking for other US ports.

Or, implement the Celebrity solution.  Apparently Celebrity Edge last sailing was with 100% vaccinated adults even with the Florida law.

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I understand the RCL not only requires testing and restrictions onboard but also requires passengers to show proof of insurance that they have medical coverage and evacuation back home if they are restricted from re-boarding at a port because of infection with Covid-19.  However, if you can show you have been vaccinated, you don't have to show insurance, be tested, have the run of the ship, etc.

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On 7/13/2021 at 5:01 PM, pingpong1 said:

This is the only clear/legal/fast/definitive way (in our system) that a  ruling and resolution of this matter can be determined quickly enough that the cruise industry can "get on with its business" in an orderly and timely way;

Well, in my opinion, coming from a litigious State as California (now living in Fluraduh): all this suing is only good for the lawyers, no one else.

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Ping:  

 

Yet-again, another Pong response.  

 

The uncertainty of our particular segment going forward as to Barcelona to Miami--on whatever ship (it was originally to be on Mariner) goes back about a year.  For that reason, Regent is responsible for all air segments.  Plus, we are arriving early in Barcelona. 

 

So far, so good.  With changes in ships (Mariner to Explorer) have come changes in air itinerary.  These have been accomplished at no additional cost.  At present, our documents still show Miami as November 14th debarkation Port; with follow-on air component flight(s) back to Seattle.

 

For reasons described in my #34 Post, fully-expect Miami will not be where we leave Explorer.  This, of course, assumes we initially board at Barcelona.  Bottom line is that Regent remains responsible for our arriving back in Seattle via whatever conveyance.  This aspect takes a lot of the load off our backs as to worry.  

 

Just another, admitted First World Problem, re:  COVID.  

 

GOARMY!

 

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We’ve set ourselves up for an interesting situation: We are disembarking from the Splendor in Athens on 11 November with a Regent-booked 3-day post-stay in Athens. Then we travel directly to Miami on Regent-provided air with a Regent-provided night in Miami before boarding the Explorer for the 15 November 24-night Caribbean cruise. It will be interesting to see what they do with us if things change. 

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That could be more intersting than we would like. As I understaned  it now, you will have to have a test to get back in the US. One thing I have always joked about is the most difficult country to enter is the US. and   am a 100% DAV with fulll vacs.

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It's probably no coincidence that pre and post hotels on trips to and from Miami aren't posted yet...says keep checking back. Until/unless NCL strikes a deal with Florida, I fear that Miami will be a "no go."

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2 hours ago, crispy46 said:

It's probably no coincidence that pre and post hotels on trips to and from Miami aren't posted yet...says keep checking back. Until/unless NCL strikes a deal with Florida, I fear that Miami will be a "no go."

Regent booked our pre night at the Conrad in Miami. November is still 4 months away. Hoping this gets sorted by then. 

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9 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

That could be more intersting than we would like. As I understaned  it now, you will have to have a test to get back in the US. One thing I have always joked about is the most difficult country to enter is the US. and   am a 100% DAV with fulll vacs.

Well, the USA might be the most difficult country to enter LEGALLY.......

 

😉

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I've got flights booked, pre-hotel, one day excursion in Miami, before our Splendor Dec. 17th cruise,

and more post hotel, rental car, Golf, planned when we get off the ship Jan. 6th in Miami.

I sure hope the AG of Florida and Governor, clear their heads, and realize it is in their best interest

to stay out of private enterprise business and let them determine the safest and best way to protect

their customers, employees, business, and reputation. 

 

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