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Just now, mabt said:

 

These kinds of forums are invaluable in situations like this.  Although my personal advice to anyone not cruising in the next couple of months is to forget about it for now and check back in a few weeks.  It'll probably have changed three times by then!

 

You are so right.  Our next cruise is May 2022, so not getting too worried, yet.  I do worry about those folks who are, or were, supposed to cruise in the next few weeks.  I really feel for them.

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On 7/16/2021 at 2:50 PM, canuckgrl82 said:

This is all so disappointing & frustrating. My cruise to Alaska is August 1st and I I have a mix of astra & moderna for vaccines ( which was recommended to me at the time) but this is now not recognized so technically I'm not vaccinated according to the cruiseline. This policy was just updated too because I did my due diligence beforehand and it wasn't an issue before and now is. So now I'm left with no cruise 2 weeks out. What a mess...

I sent a note to all the major media outlets detailing the issues people had.   Still have not heard back from any and do not see any coverage.  Also, sent something to my MP, along with the Conservative candidate for the area.  I thought he might be interested.  As this is my first time doing something like this, maybe I did not position it properly.

 

If you have the energy, you should tell your local news network the issues that you had.  As a minimum, it will put the cruiseline on the spotlight.  They may even provide you with further compensation to pay for other incident credits, through a future OBC, or something else.  It will also get some attention so that others that are in your same situation are not caught offguard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, tert333 said:

I sent a note to all the major media outlets detailing the issues people had.   Still have not heard back from any and do not see any coverage.  Also, sent something to my MP, along with the Conservative candidate for the area.  I thought he might be interested.  As this is my first time doing something like this, maybe I did not position it properly.

 

If you have the energy, you should tell your local news network the issues that you had.  As a minimum, it will put the cruiseline on the spotlight.  They may even provide you with further compensation to pay for other incident credits, through a future OBC, or something else.  It will also get some attention so that others that are in your same situation are not caught offguard.

Good. I was hoping someone would do this. Perhaps once the news organizations get it things might change. We'll see. I'm not really all that hopeful but fingers crossed. 

 

For us we're about ready to pull the plug and book a VRBO for a month instead of a cruise. The more I think of it, the more enticing it is. We'd pay pretty close to the same amount, wont lose our booked airfare and get almost an additional 3 weeks away. Maybe pushing for a cruise this early is a mistake anyway. I had hoped we'd be able to resume "normal operations" and we've booked 3 cruises - 1 this year, one 2022 and one in 2023. Cancelling all 3 is on the table right now, it has to be. I can't book a cruise under one set of rules only to have them constantly change those rules and then lose airfare and cruise payments.

 

At some point reason will re-enter the picture. Not sure when tho. 

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17 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

Good. I was hoping someone would do this. Perhaps once the news organizations get it things might change. We'll see. I'm not really all that hopeful but fingers crossed. 

 

For us we're about ready to pull the plug and book a VRBO for a month instead of a cruise. The more I think of it, the more enticing it is. We'd pay pretty close to the same amount, wont lose our booked airfare and get almost an additional 3 weeks away. Maybe pushing for a cruise this early is a mistake anyway. I had hoped we'd be able to resume "normal operations" and we've booked 3 cruises - 1 this year, one 2022 and one in 2023. Cancelling all 3 is on the table right now, it has to be. I can't book a cruise under one set of rules only to have them constantly change those rules and then lose airfare and cruise payments.

 

At some point reason will re-enter the picture. Not sure when tho. 

I completely understand your point and I would be inclined to do the same.  Our next cruise is ten months away, so hoping for changes before then.  My DH and I were just saying the anticipation and fun of planning a cruise is not the same anymore.  Now, there are so many unknowns and variables and sudden changes and it takes the pleasure out of it.  I hope whatever you decide to do, you have a wonderful time and put this all behind you.

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Just an FYI - I called RCI to get a price on a cruise to see what their policy was. I specifically asked about mixed dosages. Initially she said it would be accepted but I insisted she check. She came back and said that there is a note that mixed dosages are being reviewed. I take this as good news since earlier in the week RCI was also saying AZ/Pfizer would not be accepted. So maybe things are changing. We'll see. I'll hang in there for now I guess.

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11 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

Just an FYI - I called RCI to get a price on a cruise to see what their policy was. I specifically asked about mixed dosages. Initially she said it would be accepted but I insisted she check. She came back and said that there is a note that mixed dosages are being reviewed. I take this as good news since earlier in the week RCI was also saying AZ/Pfizer would not be accepted. So maybe things are changing. We'll see. I'll hang in there for now I guess.

Thanks for the update!  It is great to get some positive(non-negative) news...  🙂

 

Were you looking for a US cruise or European?  When I was taking to Princess on friday, they could not confirm the rules for a cruise out of England this fall.   It may not be the same as in the US.

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1 hour ago, nbsjcruiser said:

Just an FYI - I called RCI to get a price on a cruise to see what their policy was. I specifically asked about mixed dosages. Initially she said it would be accepted but I insisted she check. She came back and said that there is a note that mixed dosages are being reviewed. I take this as good news since earlier in the week RCI was also saying AZ/Pfizer would not be accepted. So maybe things are changing. We'll see. I'll hang in there for now I guess.

Keep in mind that RCI is sailing under the unvaccinated protocol, not the 85% vaccinated protocol.  So I expect that review is more a case of discussions with the CDC concerning how those will be treated under the approved RCI  protocols and maybe if there can be a third category.

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2 hours ago, tert333 said:

Thanks for the update!  It is great to get some positive(non-negative) news...  🙂

 

Were you looking for a US cruise or European?  When I was taking to Princess on friday, they could not confirm the rules for a cruise out of England this fall.   It may not be the same as in the US.

US, out of Miami

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57 minutes ago, nocl said:

Keep in mind that RCI is sailing under the unvaccinated protocol, not the 85% vaccinated protocol.  So I expect that review is more a case of discussions with the CDC concerning how those will be treated under the approved RCI  protocols and maybe if there can be a third category.

I would be surprised if they will have three categories.    Having two classes of passengers would be difficult to manager.  Adding a third would just complicate things further. 

 

Canada and the US are in negotiations about opening the border for vaccinated people.   The question of mixed vaccinations must be a topic of those negotiations.   There is no way the Canadians would agree to define fully vaccinated people as "non-mixed only" vaccinated Canadians.  It would be political suicide going into a fall election.  If this becomes a stumbling block, Trudeau will keep the borders closed.  There is still a lot of support in Canada to keep the borders closed. It will be interesting if the US administration agrees to this.  I am not sure the process, but I would think the US  would need the CDC to buy into any strategy of opening the border.  If that happens it would be difficult for them to say to the cruiselines that you can't consider mixed vaccinated people as non-vaccinated, and then on the other hand, let all of us who have mixed vaccines across the border.🙂

 

BTW.   We are not the only ones that have mixed vaccines.  The Germans, French, Sweden, Finland and Norway allow it and the UK will on an exceptional basis.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, nocl said:

Keep in mind that RCI is sailing under the unvaccinated protocol, not the 85% vaccinated protocol.  So I expect that review is more a case of discussions with the CDC concerning how those will be treated under the approved RCI  protocols and maybe if there can be a third category.

Yes, true but I suspect not many unvaccinated people will be travelling under the requirements they set forth. One test on embarkation day ($140), a test 24 hours before disembarkation ($140) and then restricted to where you can go on the ship. If they allow the mixed AZ/Pf vaccine as fully vaccinated and Princess is still not allowing it, we'll cruise RCI.

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3 minutes ago, tert333 said:

I would be surprised if they will have three categories.    Having two classes of passengers would be difficult to manager.  Adding a third would just complicate things further. 

 

Canada and the US are in negotiations about opening the border for vaccinated people.   The question of mixed vaccinations must be a topic of those negotiations.   There is no way the Canadians would agree to define fully vaccinated people as "non-mixed only" vaccinated Canadians.  It would be political suicide going into a fall election.  If this becomes a stumbling block, Trudeau will keep the borders closed.  There is still a lot of support in Canada to keep the borders closed. It will be interesting if the US administration agrees to this.  I am not sure the process, but I would think the US  would need the CDC to buy into any strategy of opening the border.  If that happens it would be difficult for them to say to the cruiselines that you can't consider mixed vaccinated people as non-vaccinated, and then on the other hand, let all of us who have mixed vaccines across the border.🙂

 

BTW.   We are not the only ones that have mixed vaccines.  The Germans, French, Sweden, Finland and Norway allow it and the UK will on an exceptional basis.

 

 

 

You made the point I've been making all week with DW. I suspect that the border opening will be coming in mid August, mixed dosages will almost certainly be allowed. Don't forget, its the Americans who have been screaming to open the borders, they're not going to get picky at this point. When this does happen, I can foresee many a phone call to Princess like this: "So you're telling me your own Federal Government has given me the green light to enter the country as fully vaccinated but you won't? Is there anyone there with a working brain cell? If so please put them on the phone". 

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10 minutes ago, tert333 said:

I would be surprised if they will have three categories.    Having two classes of passengers would be difficult to manager.  Adding a third would just complicate things further. 

 

Canada and the US are in negotiations about opening the border for vaccinated people.   The question of mixed vaccinations must be a topic of those negotiations.   There is no way the Canadians would agree to define fully vaccinated people as "non-mixed only" vaccinated Canadians.  It would be political suicide going into a fall election.  If this becomes a stumbling block, Trudeau will keep the borders closed.  There is still a lot of support in Canada to keep the borders closed. It will be interesting if the US administration agrees to this.  I am not sure the process, but I would think the US  would need the CDC to buy into any strategy of opening the border.  If that happens it would be difficult for them to say to the cruiselines that you can't consider mixed vaccinated people as non-vaccinated, and then on the other hand, let all of us who have mixed vaccines across the border.🙂

 

BTW.   We are not the only ones that have mixed vaccines.  The Germans, French, Sweden, Finland and Norway allow it and the UK will on an exceptional basis.

 

 

 

Keeping the boarders closed cost Canada more than the US.

 

The US does not have any restrictions concerning vaccination status when it comes to entering the country, so it does not matter when opening the boarder. Though if Canada requires fully vaccinated status for entry the US might do the same.

 

On the other had the protocols for cruise ships, the option for sailing with the 95% protocol is driven by the CDC's definition of fully vaccinated which requires listing as authorized by either the FDA or WHO.  All Health Canada needs to do is the work to get the combinations they approved authorized by WHO.

 

I doubt either FDA or WHO will relax their approval standards so any approval will require the appropriate level of safety and efficacy data.

 

For that matter the EU will not even recognize the WHO list.  Only EMEA authorized.  Though individual countries in the EU might.

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On 7/16/2021 at 9:08 AM, Daniel A said:

IMHO, I suspect the guidance on mixed doses not being "Fully Vaccinated" came from the CDC as it looks like the same restriction is being applied across several other cruise lines as well.  I might be wrong about that but it is consistent with the CDC requirement that 95% of passengers and crew must be "Fully Vaccinated."

This, from a recent Cruise Critic news story:  "Sources have told Cruise Critic on background that the new changes are being mandated by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for voyages leaving U.S. ports of call as part of the CDC's Conditional Sail Order, though not every line has announced this policy."

Cruise Lines Modify Vaccination Policies to Prohibit Vaccine Mixing (cruisecritic.com)

 

Don't blame the cruise lines for scrambling to comply with CDC mandates so they can sail again...

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44 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

This, from a recent Cruise Critic news story:  "Sources have told Cruise Critic on background that the new changes are being mandated by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for voyages leaving U.S. ports of call as part of the CDC's Conditional Sail Order, though not every line has announced this policy."

Cruise Lines Modify Vaccination Policies to Prohibit Vaccine Mixing (cruisecritic.com)

 

Don't blame the cruise lines for scrambling to comply with CDC mandates so they can sail again...

It would be hilarious if suddenly I was on the side of DeSantis as he fights the CDC order.

 

Bizarro world.

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9 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

It would be hilarious if suddenly I was on the side of DeSantis as he fights the CDC order.

 

Bizarro world.

I think this is why he did it.  We call it 'moving the goalposts.'

 

Good luck.   🙂

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31 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

He can't hold a candle to Trudeau though when it comes to moving the goalposts. He's moved them so many times that they're not even on the same ballfield any more.

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I meant the CDC was moving the goalposts.  😄  Did you ever hear a politician or bureaucrat say "We have enough rules, we don't need to make or change any more...?"

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35 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

He can't hold a candle to Trudeau though when it comes to moving the goalposts. He's moved them so many times that they're not even on the same ballfield any more.

This is happening everywhere. The only thing we know about fall cruises is that we don’t know anything. 

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52 minutes ago, oskidunker said:

 The only thing we know about fall cruises is that we don’t know anything. 

 

THIS!!!!!

 

So true.    I feel so bad for folks booked on the cruises coming up soon.   I hope everyone affected can get their money back and sort it all out.   

 

We are "booked" for December ... under the rules today we can't cruise due to mixed vaccines.   

Our final payment is mid September and we will just have to wait and see what the rules and worldwide covid situation is closer to the day.   

 

We also are hoping that vaccination rates around the world increase quickly and covid is suppressed.  Only then will the rules and restrictions finally settle down and stop changing constantly.  

 

 

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Canada just announced the border reopening protocols with the United States. As of August 9 fully vaccinated Americans can enter Canada for non-essential travel without quarantine. They just need a negative PCR test plus proof of vaccination. Waiting to see what rules the US will set for Canadians. If they accept our mixing of vaccines to cross the border then so should the cruise lines.

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Everyone who is affected by this policy should make their opinions known to Princess Cruises and Jan Swartz. If they get enough feedback they will change their policy. I sent the following to their email:

     customerrelations@princesscruises.com

     jswartz@hollandamericagroup.com

 

Good day.

  

Princess policy to consider those with mixed vaccinations (AstraZenica plus mRNA vaccine) as unvaccinated is discriminatory and unscientific to the hundreds of thousands of Canadians and millions of Europeans who have followed their federal and provincial Ministry of Health advisories on vaccination. In Canada mixing of vaccines has been approved by the National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) based on science and the availability of vaccines due to supplier delivery issues.

 

I want Princess to amend their vaccination policy to consider those with any two WHO approved vaccinations as fully vaccinated.

 

·         Canadians who first received AstraZenica were recommended to take either Pfizer or Moderna as their second dose due to the risk of VITT associated with AstraZenica.

·         Medical studies from Europe have demonstrated that the immune response from taking Pfizer or Moderna after AstraZenica is greater than two doses of AstraZenica. The immune response is similar to taking two doses of mRNA vaccine.

·         Those with mixed vaccinations are considered to be fully vaccinated in Canada. This includes Prime Minister Justin Trudeau!

·         Canadians are not permitted to receive a third dose of vaccine to meet your policy. It would be unethical to take a third dose when excess doses in Canada are being donated to COVAX.

 

In conclusion, those with mixed vaccinations are at no greater risk of contracting or communicating Covid-19 than those with two similar doses.

What is the medical evidence supporting the current policy?

 

There are business reasons to review this policy.

·         Over 1.4 million Canadians have mixed vaccinations with half being AstraZenica and mRNA.

·         Those affected are over 40 years of age as AstraZenica was not given to those younger. This is the age prime demographic for Princess Cruise passengers.

·         Germany and other EU countries have similarly provided mixed vaccinations to their population

·         There are thousands of loyal Princess cruisers wanting to get back to cruising who are being denied by this policy..

 

Without a change in this policy I will be forced to cancel two upcoming cruises (22 days). Looking forward to your response and being able to cruise again.

 

Regards

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On 7/17/2021 at 7:58 PM, tert333 said:

I sent a note to all the major media outlets detailing the issues people had.   Still have not heard back from any and do not see any coverage.  Also, sent something to my MP, along with the Conservative candidate for the area.  I thought he might be interested.  As this is my first time doing something like this, maybe I did not position it properly.

 

If you have the energy, you should tell your local news network the issues that you had.  As a minimum, it will put the cruiseline on the spotlight.  They may even provide you with further compensation to pay for other incident credits, through a future OBC, or something else.  It will also get some attention so that others that are in your same situation are not caught offguard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and its hit the news finally - well done if you had something to do with this.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/some-cruise-lines-not-accepting-passengers-with-mixed-covid-19-vaccinations-1.5514985

 

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12 minutes ago, Barry H said:

If they accept our mixing of vaccines to cross the border then so should the cruise lines.

 

7 minutes ago, Barry H said:

Everyone who is affected by this policy should make their opinions known to Princess Cruises and Jan Swartz. If they get enough feedback they will change their policy.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.  It is the CDC, not Princess who is deciding on the definition of "Fully Vaccinated."  ( See my post at #113.  There is also a link in that post to the article about this.)  Princess is merely implementing yet another mandate being included in the CDC's CSO.  I think you may get better results asking your elected representatives to request that the U.S. Government revise its definition of Fully Vaccinated Persons.

 

As far as the border goes, so far, the CDC hasn't yet claimed total authority over land crossings so the CSO doesn't yet apply to people crossing the border.  It will be up to the Department of Homeland Security to regulate the border crossings.  Since the U.S. Government isn't checking for vaccination status at our border with Mexico, I would expect they won't have a vaccine requirement at our border with Canada.

 

Good luck!  I hope it all works out for you.

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3 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Since the U.S. Government isn't checking for vaccination status at our border with Mexico, I would expect they won't have a vaccine requirement at our border with Canada.

Isn't the Mexico thing due to WH not wanting to turn away migrants?  As for Canada, up to now, the border situation has been pretty close to reciprocal.  Canada is letting in only fully-vaccinated to begin with and only fully-vaccinated are going to bypass a quarantine.  The US has not had a quarantine requirement, but we'll see once they make the reciprocal announcement to Canada's of today (border open Aug 9) whether open to any Canadian without restrictions or whether we will also need to be fully-vaccinated.  Thing is we can fly into US now without vaccine, so perhaps the land border open will be the same. 

 

It's going to clog things up at land borders if everyone has to be screened for a negative test result.  

 

Anyway, more details to be coming.  I'm not sure I made total sense above.  In the end, maybe your prediction is correct.  If we have been able to FLY into the US all through pandemic, then I suppose why not be able to DRIVE over the same?  However, if a non-vaccinated Canuck does this and returns home, they will be directed to quarantine for 14 days.  So, that will discourage day trips which is a lot of the land border traffic. 

 

We are planning some kind of drive trip getaway down into US in Sep, so the border opening is welcome news.

 

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Daniel A:

There is nothing in the article about the CDC defining of Fully Vaccinated. 

 

I have also sent emails to politicians. Hopefully Chrystia Freeland can take up the issue with her US counterpart.

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