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Passengers who have used Mixed Vaccination Protocols will not be considered to be Fully Vaccinated per RCI FAQs


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1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

Don't be so shy...

... tell us how you really feel.

 

I think he is telling you in Hockey terms that the McSorley rule is about to be enforced.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2021 at 7:27 PM, suzyluvs2cruise said:

NOTE: Guests who have used mixed vaccination protocols will not be considered fully vaccinated (i.e. 1 dose Pfizer + 1 dose Moderna, or 1 dose AstraZeneca + 1 dose Pfizer, etc.). To be considered fully vaccinated, a guest must have received all doses of one accepted vaccine. Otherwise, a guest will be considered unvaccinated. This is now on the RCI website 

 

What Vaccines are Accepted

 

 

Recent MedPage article about Mixing vaccines.  You might need to register with them to read it 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93706?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2021-07-23&eun=g1923202d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily Headlines Engagement PassiveNew 2021-07-23&utm_term=NL_Daily_DHE_passiveNew

Edited by drarill
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9 hours ago, Welly9 said:

Careful! if I spill more...Might offend you or others then we really have a problem!! 🤣

I don’t feel JT is the strongest of leaders, but if you’re going to say he’s corrupt or crooked without substantiation, then you are being offensive.  There are corrupt and crooked leaders in the world, and JT is certainly not in their league, thank goodness. Be thankful for what Canada provides to you.

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7 hours ago, drarill said:

That was an interesting read. Thank you for posting it.  What I gathered was….with my mixed Pfizer/AZ vaccines, I am not vaccinated if I leave on a RC cruise from the US…..but I am vaccinated if I leave on a RC cruise from the UK.   That in itself makes no sense at all to me.  If that is their policy…then I simply will not board a cruise ship in the US.  

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Posted (edited)

So, the vaccine policy has changed and now mixed mRNA doses are accepted….BUT the the second dose must be administered no sooner than 28 days and no later than 42 days after the first dose.  I’m thinking this pretty much rules out mixed doses for the vast majority of Canadians.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/what-vaccines-are-accepted

 

Mixed Vaccines from Different Manufacturers

We understand some guests may have been vaccinated with doses from two different vaccine manufacturers. Whether these are accepted depends on the mix of manufacturers and where you are sailing from.  

For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

We do not accept 1 shot of an mRNA vaccine (e.g., Pfizer or Moderna) mixed with 1 shot of a viral vector vaccine (e.g., AstraZeneca). 

Edited by Ourusualbeach
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I'm glad they clarified their policy, even if I don't like it. I did have my AstraZeneca mixed shot 10 weeks apart. So maybe this means depending on us policy we could sail out of Canada? I'll have to start looking at their other ports!

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Posted (edited)

I can't remember. If I posted this but studies have shown mixed doses give a strong response.  There  seems to be no reason why its not being allowed 

Another study has found the sweet spot in between doses is 8 weeks 

BBC News - Mixing Covid jabs has good immune response, study finds
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

 

BBC News - Covid vaccine: Eight-week gap seen as sweet spot for Pfizer jab antibodies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57929953

Edited by sgmn
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, sgmn said:

I can't remember. If I posted this but studies have shown mixed doses give a strong response.  There  seems to be no reason why its not being allowed 

Another study has found the sweet spot in between doses is 8 weeks 

BBC News - Mixing Covid jabs has good immune response, study finds
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

 

BBC News - Covid vaccine: Eight-week gap seen as sweet spot for Pfizer jab antibodies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57929953

For U.S. based cruises the CDC has to provide it's own guidance. I'm sure they will look at the studies, they may require additional studies, and at some point they will update or confirm their current guidance. There might be some political pressure from the U.S. travel industry, or foreign governments for them to speed up their deliberations. 😉

 

Edited by DirtyDawg
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

So, the vaccine policy has changed and now mixed mRNA doses are accepted….BUT the the second dose must be administered no sooner than 28 days and no later than 42 days after the first dose.  I’m thinking this pretty much rules out mixed doses for the vast majority of Canadians.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/what-vaccines-are-accepted

 

Mixed Vaccines from Different Manufacturers

We understand some guests may have been vaccinated with doses from two different vaccine manufacturers. Whether these are accepted depends on the mix of manufacturers and where you are sailing from.  

For Cruises Departing from U.S. Ports 

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

We do not accept 1 shot of an mRNA vaccine (e.g., Pfizer or Moderna) mixed with 1 shot of a viral vector vaccine (e.g., AstraZeneca). 

That's horrible for anyone who got mixed doses.  Do you know if the 28 - 42 day rule is for mixed doses only?  Thankfully DH and I got Moderna for both and our kids got Pfizer for both, but like most Canadians, our doses are more than 42 days apart (and that is with the accelerated schedule)

Edited by LuCruise
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21 minutes ago, LuCruise said:

That's horrible for anyone who got mixed doses.  Do you know if the 28 - 42 day rule is for mixed doses only?  Thankfully DH and I got Moderna for both and our kids got Pfizer for both, but like most Canadians, our doses are more than 42 days apart (and that is with the accelerated schedule)


I don’t think I’d worry too much about the delay between same doses. If you look at the American population who have only taken one dose, and eventually get their second one, they will have longer delays than Canadians.  

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6 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

I don’t think I’d worry too much about the delay between same doses. If you look at the American population who have only taken one dose, and eventually get their second one, they will have longer delays than Canadians.  

 

I agree with your sentiment.

 

It's just not 100% clear if they are going to apply this date range to people who've taken the same dose. It _reads_ like it only applies to mixed doses.  However, the problem is when the rules are vague you're going to have random people at the cruise port who happen to have a bad day arbitrarily enforcing the rules how they feel like it.

 

I fully expect all of this to get worked out in a few months but it sure is stressful, especially for those travelling within the next 60-90 days.

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1 hour ago, sgmn said:

I can't remember. If I posted this but studies have shown mixed doses give a strong response.  There  seems to be no reason why its not being allowed 

Another study has found the sweet spot in between doses is 8 weeks 

BBC News - Mixing Covid jabs has good immune response, study finds
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57636356

 

BBC News - Covid vaccine: Eight-week gap seen as sweet spot for Pfizer jab antibodies
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57929953

These mixing findings are not in general, but specific to a particular order of particular vaccines (in a very specific time range).   So saying mixed dosing gives a strong response is a gross misrepresentation of the findings.  It isn't just any mixed dosing.  And this is only one study with a 800+ Sample size.  This is minuscule compared to the drug company trial and limits statistical power as an example.  Much more research is needed to make any kind of confident statement.   
 

Plus, none of them weigh the risk factors (which is the other big part about approval).  The vaccines in the US only got emergency approval because they showed high efficacy and thus the benefits outweighed the risks.  If the efficacy was low (say 40%) would they have been approved?   What are the risk factors of mixing doses?  Do we know?   There are potential side effects to all of these vaccines and mixing could make them worse.  Maybe not, but we don’t know.  
 

The reality is that the mixed dosing is all political at this point.  No vaccine company recommends going against their prescribed and approved approach.  And no govt would do that if they had the right vaccine and proper amount of doses.  The Germans did this for political reasons.  Their medical commission clearly made a political recommendation and colored it under the guise of science.    It is laughable to think otherwise.  That is quite an experiment on millions of people.  

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My next cruise isn't till end of December so I have time,  and things can change.   But I got pfizer first dose second moderna,   so from what I read they now will accept that?  Just making sure, thanks.

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58 minutes ago, LuCruise said:

That's horrible for anyone who got mixed doses.  Do you know if the 28 - 42 day rule is for mixed doses only?  Thankfully DH and I got Moderna for both and our kids got Pfizer for both, but like most Canadians, our doses are more than 42 days apart (and that is with the accelerated schedule)

The way the entire section reads the date restrictions are only listed for the mixed doses

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2 minutes ago, cantgetaname said:

My next cruise isn't till end of December so I have time,  and things can change.   But I got pfizer first dose second moderna,   so from what I read they now will accept that?  Just making sure, thanks.

as long as they were administered between 28 and 42 days apart

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I find it ironic that I receive an email from Michael Bayley's executive office at 11:30pm last night saying that they are working hard on this problem and will email everyone affected when they have a solution, only to find out that probably an hour later they screw me over for being fully vaccinated.

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43 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


I don’t think I’d worry too much about the delay between same doses. If you look at the American population who have only taken one dose, and eventually get their second one, they will have longer delays than Canadians.  

 

7 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

as long as they were administered between 28 and 42 days apart

Thanks.  That's what I was thinking too, but it didn't explicitly state this rule didn't apply to non-mixed doses too so wanted to make sure.

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Things are evolving: 😁

 

Quebec offers a solution for people who have been refused travel, especially to the United States, because they received two different vaccines. They can now receive an extra dose.

 

https://www.vaughantoday.ca/unrecognized-mixed-vaccines-travelers-may-receive-a-third-dose/

 

Not an official statement but it look good...

 

 

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47 minutes ago, richardsavage said:

Things are evolving: 😁

 

Quebec offers a solution for people who have been refused travel, especially to the United States, because they received two different vaccines. They can now receive an extra dose.

 

https://www.vaughantoday.ca/unrecognized-mixed-vaccines-travelers-may-receive-a-third-dose/

 

Not an official statement but it look good...

 

 

I hope the government is charging people for this extra dose. I don't want my tax dollars used to subsidize someone else's vacation.

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55 minutes ago, richardsavage said:

Things are evolving: 😁

 

Quebec offers a solution for people who have been refused travel, especially to the United States, because they received two different vaccines. They can now receive an extra dose.

 

https://www.vaughantoday.ca/unrecognized-mixed-vaccines-travelers-may-receive-a-third-dose/

 

Not an official statement but it look good...

 

 


 

I wonder, has any study about the effects of a third dose happened in the last week?

 

I muse out loud… the separatist government of QC gives an extra dose to those who want to go to FL for the winter.  Is this science or political protectionism. 😉😁

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11 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I hope the government is charging people for this extra dose. I don't want my tax dollars used to subsidize someone else's vacation.


I was fortunate enough to have 2 Pfizer shots as well as our family members.
 

Did you get matching shots?  If not, would you want to pay for a possible third matching shot if needed for travel?  
 

Anyone who followed the recommendations of the government should not be punished in the form of not being allowed to travel or have to pay for a third dose.  I was reading that a dose can cost between $3-$50 in US funds. I doubt we will ever know how much taxpayers in Canada will pay per dose. Lord knows we have millions more than we actually need.
 

In the grand scheme of things, someone unvaccinated with covid checking in at triage will cost more than giving a third dose to someone who followed the Federal Government’s recommendations.  Those who followed those recommendations should not be financially punished. 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


I was fortunate enough to have 2 Pfizer shots as well as our family members.
 

Did you get matching shots?  If not, would you want to pay for a possible third matching shot if needed for travel?  
 

Anyone who followed the recommendations of the government should not be punished in the form of not being allowed to travel or have to pay for a third dose.  I was reading that a dose can cost between $3-$50 in US funds. I doubt we will ever know how much taxpayers in Canada will pay per dose. Lord knows we have millions more than we actually need.
 

In the grand scheme of things, someone unvaccinated with covid checking in at triage will cost more than giving a third dose to someone who followed the Federal Government’s recommendations.  Those who followed those recommendations should not be financially punished. 

We will have to agree to disagree on this. The travel we are discussing is totally non-essential and can easily be deferred until international standards are agreed upon. In addition those people  affected have the financial means to pay for a third dose. Now, if the travel was to volunteer at a food bank, or save the rain forest, or if the people could not really afford the third dose,  I'd be less concerned. I total agree the financial cost would be minor compared to what we have spent as a nation already but for me it's the principle of the thing.

 

I am also against giving out free third doses to business people crossing borders to make profits or university professors visiting fee paying consulting clients in other countries because they need to augment the meager public service salaries they make in this country.  😉

 

Edited by DirtyDawg
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21 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this. The travel we are discussing is totally non-essential and can easily be deferred until international standards are agreed upon. In addition those people  affected have the financial means to pay for a third dose. Now, if the travel was to volunteer at a food bank, or save the rain forest, or if the people could not really afford the third dose,  I'd be less concerned. I total agree the financial cost would be minor compared to what we have spent as a nation already but for me it's the principle of the thing.

 

I am also against giving out free third doses to business people crossing borders to make profits or university professors visiting fee paying consulting clients in other countries because they need to augment the meager public service salaries they make in this country.  😉

 

I feel its an equity issue. Its not equitable that some people can travel and some can not. It would be those with 2 pfizer vaccines who would squawk if a third was given. I’m not sure a 3rd vaccine will help if its not given at a certain interval. That said i’d gladly pay the 50.00 if it did. I feel like we are just going to be flexible in where we cruise going forward. Barbados accepts mixed vaccines right? I was looking at a cruise leaving bridgetown, Barbados.

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