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Passengers who have used Mixed Vaccination Protocols will not be considered to be Fully Vaccinated per RCI FAQs


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34 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

But protocols change all the time, having proof of an old protocol is useless. 

 

If nothing else it would show that a decision could be made relying upon such information and when it changes later could be a valid reason under consumer protection laws to require that a sale can be canceled and refunded in full.

Easily better to have such materials than to not, even if in the end they turn out not to be helpful.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, nbsjcruiser said:

I thought I'd follow up with a little more up to date information on mixing vector vaccines and mRNA vaccines.

 

As we would expect, the situation continues to evolve and yesterday a study from the US revealed that the J&J vaccine may not protect against the Delta variant. As a result several eminent Doctors (e.g. Dr Wen, Dr Hotez) are calling for those people who received the J&J to line up for an mRNA booster shot. I also read with interest this morning where Dr Vin Gupta was interviewed on CNBC and had this to say:

 

“AstraZeneca, when combined with a Pfizer or Moderna booster, is showing tremendous levels of protection against delta, in terms of the antibody levels that are generated in patients.”

“I do think that those one-shot J&Jer’s should be given the opportunity, while we complete our clinical trial ... I’m already telling my patients to do it, if they can get access to it.”
The full link is here: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/dr-vin-gupta-encourages-jj-vaccine-recipients-to-get-a-pfizer-or-moderna-booster.html

 

The only mixing of vaccines with applicable verifiable data that supports its use is Vector+mRNA. Any cruise guest with a Vector+mRNA vaccine should be considered well protected against the virus. In fact, it would seem now that such a combination is better than a one shot J&J. 

 

My take, not that I'm an expert, is that basically any two-dose combination of any of the vaccines in use in Canada and the US is better than a single dose of J&J.  Not surprisingly, the efficacy of J&J is similar to the efficacy of AstraZeneca at 8-12 weeks after the first dose, and they both perform relatively poorly against Delta as a single shot (as do the mRNA vaccines).

 

J&J is a single dose simply because they chose to trial and have it approved as a single dose.  It was never because a single dose was optimal.  Similarly, the 3-4 week interval for the other vaccines was recommended because that's what was tested, mainly because they were trying to get trials done ASAP.  Nobody ever had any reason to believe that 3-4 weeks was optimal spacing, and there's now quite a bit of evidence suggesting that a longer dosing interval ultimately produces a stronger immune response (especially for AZ).

 

Which is part of what makes all this wrangling over mixed doses and intervals so ironic.  Two doses of any combination of vaccines are going to be more effective than the single dose of J&J that I've read was used to vaccinate most cruise line staff.  It's all about regulations and politics, not actual immunology.

 

Edited by mabt
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4 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

I hate to mention it but any of you see this news story today?  
 

Hope no one is planning to drive over the US border for their cruise before August 21st. I can’t believe they both aren’t opening at the same time on August 9th, when we allow Americans in by land. 
 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/u-s-extends-travel-restrictions-at-land-border-with-canada-until-aug-21-1.5517529

 

I definitely saw it.  🙁  Can't say I saw this one coming.  I think most of us were assuming that if anyone decided to take unilateral action on opening borders, it would be the US.

 

Doesn't make much sense, considering that a) anyone can fly to the US with nothing more than a pre-departure test, b) travel within the US is (mostly) wide open, even with significant resurgences in some areas, c) COVID rates are lower and vaccination rates are higher across Canada compared to most of the US, so it's hard to see how allowing vaccinated Canadians to drive across the border would pose any additional threat, and d) it doesn't seem like most Americans care at this point.

 

I might be wrong on that last point, but that's the impression I've gotten from media reports.

 

I've been trying to figure out why they would do this.  Logistics, maybe?  They don't want to just open the border to everyone, but also don't want to put in place rules and enforcement of testing and/or vaccination requirements?  The epidemiological situation doesn't seem to support it, and unless I'm way off base on point (d), it doesn't seem like there's anything to be gained politically, either.

 

It's making things tricky for me.  I have been thinking of driving to New York and flying from there to Nassau for our August 28 cruise.  I can fly directly from Canada, but the flights are a lot more expensive and, more importantly, there are very few departures.  Do I take the chance and risk having to fly to New York - no doubt at a significant premium - if the borders don't reopen?  Or just bite the bullet and take an expensive, badly timed flight from Toronto?  Decisions, decisions.  😉

 

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6 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

I hate to mention it but any of you see this news story today?  
 

Hope no one is planning to drive over the US border for their cruise before August 21st. I can’t believe they both aren’t opening at the same time on August 9th, when we allow Americans in by land. 
 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/u-s-extends-travel-restrictions-at-land-border-with-canada-until-aug-21-1.5517529

Saw that. My take is that another month gives Canada the chance to get to herd immunity and then the US will not need to check vaccines given the opposition to vaccine passports in the US. I also think Biden wants to make a point with respect to vaccine hesitancy in the US.

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6 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

I hate to mention it but any of you see this news story today?  
 

Hope no one is planning to drive over the US border for their cruise before August 21st. I can’t believe they both aren’t opening at the same time on August 9th, when we allow Americans in by land. 
 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/u-s-extends-travel-restrictions-at-land-border-with-canada-until-aug-21-1.5517529

I don't even know how to respond to this...

 

A little over a month ago I was at both the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa border crossings for most of a day.  It was a literal river of humanity streaming across the border at both border crossings hour upon hour.

 

Good thing the administration has that northern border locked down tight.  God only knows what's trying come across.

 

SMH

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12 hours ago, nbsjcruiser said:

I thought I'd follow up with a little more up to date information on mixing vector vaccines and mRNA vaccines.

 

As we would expect, the situation continues to evolve and yesterday a study from the US revealed that the J&J vaccine may not protect against the Delta variant. As a result several eminent Doctors (e.g. Dr Wen, Dr Hotez) are calling for those people who received the J&J to line up for an mRNA booster shot. I also read with interest this morning where Dr Vin Gupta was interviewed on CNBC and had this to say:

 

“AstraZeneca, when combined with a Pfizer or Moderna booster, is showing tremendous levels of protection against delta, in terms of the antibody levels that are generated in patients.”

“I do think that those one-shot J&Jer’s should be given the opportunity, while we complete our clinical trial ... I’m already telling my patients to do it, if they can get access to it.”
The full link is here: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/dr-vin-gupta-encourages-jj-vaccine-recipients-to-get-a-pfizer-or-moderna-booster.html

 

The only mixing of vaccines with applicable verifiable data that supports its use is Vector+mRNA. Any cruise guest with a Vector+mRNA vaccine should be considered well protected against the virus. In fact, it would seem now that such a combination is better than a one shot J&J. 

I'm sure royal would be fine with someone having the single dose J&J.  As that is considered, right now, to be fully vaccinated.  If they get a booster then even better for them.

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Most posts here are obviously about RCI and whether they will or won't accept mixed vaccines, and also Florida's own current 'law' on vaccine passports, but whilst I believe from all I've read that ANY vaccine that's WHO authorised is OK (and to be clear my wife and I have both had double doses of Astra Z), or even that you CAN travel on a RCI/Celebrity cruise un-vaccinated, but you'll have to pay for all sorts of tests and have different rules on-board etc.

 

My question is though; currently UK/EU passengers cannot even travel to the US (until at least July 31st I think), so it's not so much what will RCI accept, it's can we even get into the US having had AZ that isn't 'recognised' by the CDC ?

Has there been anything to suggest that once the US border re-opens (assuming it even will considering the Delta variant figures now rapidly increasing in the UK at least), that AZ vaccinated travellers will be welcome in the US?

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13 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

I don't even know how to respond to this...

 

A little over a month ago I was at both the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa border crossings for most of a day.  It was a literal river of humanity streaming across the border at both border crossings hour upon hour.

 

Good thing the administration has that northern border locked down tight.  God only knows what's trying come across.

 

SMH

I thought the same. This morning the Mexican Ambassador to the US said both borders should be treated equally.

 

uh, where do I start?

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I am getting increasingly mad at the government. It seems to me that unless additional studies are done there won't be any changes to vaccine mixing policies. So why isn't the government doing this?

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On 7/17/2021 at 5:22 PM, taglovestocruise said:

It is becoming the better choice.

Mixing COVID-19 vaccines is emerging as a good way to get people the protection they need when faced with safety concerns and unpredictable supplies. Most vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 must be given in two doses, but multiple studies now back up the idea that mixing the Oxford–AstraZeneca jab and the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine triggers an immune response similar to — or even stronger than — two doses of either vaccine.

Results announced on Monday 1 by a UK group suggest that the combination sometimes outperforms two shots of the same vaccine, and a similar picture is emerging from German studies2,3.

 

 

There was a study out a few months ago that found that a typical two dose mRNA (Pfizer or Moderna) followed 8 - 12 weeks later by a a single dose of J&J to be more highly protective, and better against some of the new variants.

 

Problem is, the vaccines have only been out in large quantities for 3 - 4 months, so mixed vaccine studies haven't had time to fully examine the performance in controlled studies.

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23 hours ago, Laticsforlife said:

My question is though; currently UK/EU passengers cannot even travel to the US (until at least July 31st I think), so it's not so much what will RCI accept, it's can we even get into the US having had AZ that isn't 'recognised' by the CDC ?

 

Don´t forget that there are two ships cruising in Europe - Jewel of the Seas is currently cruising out of Cyprus. Harmony of the Seas follows August 15th out of Barcelona (and later Civitavecchia). Plus there are a lot of people booked on Caribbean cruises later in the year.

 

Plus... there are a lot of Canadians booked even in August (but as far as I´ve seen the US won´t let Canadians in until the end of August).

 

steamboats

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3 hours ago, steamboats said:

Plus... there are a lot of Canadians booked even in August (but as far as I´ve seen the US won´t let Canadians in until the end of August).

 


Canadians can fly into the states and that never stopped.
 

Canadians haven’t been able to drive into the States since March of last year unless they are essential, such as truck drivers, police nurses etc…

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1 minute ago, A&L_Ont said:


Canadians can fly into the states and that never stopped.
 

Canadians haven’t been able to drive into the States since March of last year unless they are essential, such as truck drivers, police nurses etc…

And if you wanted to drive for non essential purposes you could arrange that too. The rule are quite flexible. 

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3 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

And if you wanted to drive for non essential purposes you could arrange that too. The rule are quite flexible. 

Not that I want to go right now but how would you do that?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Not that I want to go right now but how would you do that?

There is at least one service who will fly you over the border in a helicopter and load your car on a flatbed and dive it over the border to meet you. You arrive in the States via air and your car arrives via a commercial crossing. Easy peasy nice and easy.

Edited by DirtyDawg
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

There is at least one service who will fly you over the border in a helicopter and load your car on a flatbed and dive it over the border to meet you. You arrive in the States via air and your car arrives via a commercial crossing. Easy peasy nice and easy.


I know of three, one in Quebec, Waterloo and BC that I have read about.  Their sole purpose is get you car across the border to the nearest airport and they fly you there by private plane or chopper. They use flat deck transport trailers for RVs and traditional car haulers for vehicles.  The client then clears customs and gets in their car and drive wherever they want too in the states. 

 

Then there is the traditional car hauling companies that pick your car up and haul it to the end location. The client then flys on their end location and get the car there. This is the “traditional” pre-covid way to get your car to the end destination.

Edited by A&L_Ont
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38 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


I know of three, one in Quebec, Waterloo and BC that I have read about.  Their sole purpose is get you car across the border to the nearest airport and they fly you there by private plane or chopper. They use flat deck transport trailers for RVs and traditional car haulers for vehicles.  The client then clears customs and gets in their car and drive wherever they want too in the states. 

 

Then there is the traditional car hauling companies that pick your car up and haul it to the end location. The client then flys on their end location and get the car there. This is the “traditional” pre-covid way to get your car to the end destination.

https://greatlakeshelicopter.ca/flights-to-the-u-s-a/

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5 hours ago, steamboats said:

Don´t forget that there are two ships cruising in Europe - Jewel of the Seas is currently cruising out of Cyprus.

Geographically, I think UK is still part of Europe and Anthem is sailing out of the UK, so.......

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On 7/17/2021 at 10:19 AM, ladysail2 said:

I wouldn’t say ‘corrupt’ or even use clueless….I believe my government on this topic because who are we suppose to believe?  We believe the scientists and we were told that mixing vaccines gave us an even stronger immune response. I heard that over and over again, and I know that just because something is said repeatedly doesn’t make it true.  The people saying it are trustworthy so we believe it.  
What is the CDC basing their decision on?  I hope this hasn’t become a political issue!

 

There are other options for travel and vacation for sure.  I would like to hear the basis of fact from the CDC.  

OMG they are corrupt! JT the PM of Canada is so crooked he needs a bendable ruler to be measured! 

I love my Country, but this guy is a joke of a PM.

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9 minutes ago, Welly9 said:

OMG they are corrupt! JT the PM of Canada is so crooked he needs a bendable ruler to be measured! 

I love my Country, but this guy is a joke of a PM.

Don't be so shy...

... tell us how you really feel.

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3 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Geographically, I think UK is still part of Europe and Anthem is sailing out of the UK, so.......

 

Yeah, I forgot the Anthem as she´s UK only and no non UK can sail on her.

 

steamboats

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1 hour ago, DirtyDawg said:

Don't be so shy...

... tell us how you really feel.

Careful! if I spill more...Might offend you or others then we really have a problem!! 🤣

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