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Florida goes to the Supreme Court


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2 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Is it possible that the CDC as a result of this appeal - especially if they lose - bring in 100% vaccinated sailing requirement? As in it doesn't sail unless 100% or vaccinated not that a person can't board if not vaccinated? Or perhaps revoke the VSP and in words of Chengpk 75 watch the cruise industry dissolve into chaos. Or introduce mask requirements forever even in the cabins and in sleep requiring hidden CCTV to be installed to ensure compliance. And maybe also introduce guidelines that 1 positive case of Covid or Flu even means the cruise is cancelled and the ship returns to port and that all  passengers must be tested every day whilst onboard no exceptions?. Any one of these would destroy the industry.

 

I am asking a question not making a statement.

 

Also, I believe the CDC still can say what countries people can fly into the US from. 

 

"Ok, you can sail, but foreign crew can't join the ship."

 

I still think the cruiselines are going to play nice with the CDC because they realize they have work with the CDC long after all this is over because of all the things you list. 

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Posted (edited)

I never really cared what happened in this case. Most of the cruise lines will continue with the exact same protocols and procedures. This won't change it.

 

The NCL lawsuit on the other hand is the one to watch for.

Edited by jrapps
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18 minutes ago, Dat Cruisin Couple said:

 

 

I still think the cruiselines are going to play nice with the CDC because they realize they have work with the CDC long after all this is over because of all the things you list. 

I also think a little hand slapping of the CDC buy the courts might cause them to play a bit nicer, too. They know they are being watched.

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14 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I never really cared what happened in this case. Most of the cruise lines will continue with the exact same protocols and procedures. This won't change it.

 

The NCL lawsuit on the other hand is the one to watch for.

By the way where are all the NCL ships? And why are they not trying to sail or have I missed that?

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31 minutes ago, jrapps said:

The NCL lawsuit on the other hand is the one to watch for.

True, considering NCL is making essentially the same legal argument against the state of Florida that Florida successfully argued against the CDC - to wit, you have overstepped your constitutional authority and imposed tacit government control over how a private business conducts its operations.

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21 minutes ago, DeanD said:

As of this month there are almost 3000 deaths reported in the US alone under age 30 as a result of Covid and over 300 under the age of 18.  Other than a handful of deaths related to blood clots which may have been a result of the J&J vaccine, I am not aware of any US deaths from the mRNA vaccines.  

 

Clearly there is a risk of getting Covid even if vaccinated but statistically the risk is dramatically less and the likelihood of severe disease also dramatically less.  So it is intellectually dishonest to use the fact that you might get infected even if vaccinated as an excuse not to do so.  

 

While kids generally do OK and the younger ones seem to be slightly less likely to be infected, they are far more likely to be asymptomatic or nearly so and are contagious longer than the average.  Early on it was reported they are far more likely to be infected and this appears to have been false likely due to the number of asymptomatic infections.  This is truly a disease of the unvaccinated currently.  If enough people become vaccinated and we can reach herd immunity, the chances of someone who's susceptible being infected drops to almost zero.  

I think that was the point of my post when I pointed out to the person I quoted how getting vaccinated protects your loved ones. I'm not sure why you are preacing to me.

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3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I think that was the point of my post when I pointed out to the person I quoted how getting vaccinated protects your loved ones. I'm not sure why you are preacing to me.

I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I'm agreeing with you that clearly getting vaccinated also gives a level of protection to those around you.  I also took the opportunity to give some additional related information.  

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Totally agree with the Cruise lines!

The Cruise lines are trying to recover and ensure that their passengers are as safe as possible.

Why can't they control who boards and who does not?

Would you or should you allow anyone in your house?

I'm not afraid to be asked the question

'Have you been vaccinated?'

People unvaccinated are dieing and wishing they were vaccinated after it is too late.

Can you get on a ship if you don't pay your fare? No, so if the Cruise line doesn't want your money if you are not vaccinated, NO CRUISE! 

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22 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:


This sums it all up. 

So do you think Bayley truly wants to go all vaccinated and is not doing so only because of Florida's mandate or is he more interested in getting families with their unvaccinated kids aboard and using Florida, with its mandate, as a scapegoat for not going all vaccinated? Sometimes I think he wants his cake and is eating it too... or talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

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47 minutes ago, cruisinghawg said:

By the way where are all the NCL ships? And why are they not trying to sail or have I missed that?

NCL refused to sail out of Florida because they want to sail 100% vaccinated (no kids unvaccinated or adults who can't be vaccinated) but Florida law prohibits them from asking for proof of vaccine.  This is what NCL vs State of Florida is about.

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6 minutes ago, DeanD said:

I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I'm agreeing with you that clearly getting vaccinated also gives a level of protection to those around you.  I also took the opportunity to give some additional related information.  

Thanks, we're good. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

So do you think Bayley truly wants to go all vaccinated and is not doing so only because of Florida's mandate or is he more interested in getting families with their unvaccinated kids aboard and using Florida, with its mandate, as a scapegoat for not going all vaccinated? Sometimes I think he wants his cake and is eating it too... or talking out of both sides of his mouth.

 

 

I think absent all the legal nonsense going on, most cruise lines would require everyone eligible for vaccination to be vaccinated and look to recommendations as to exactly how to handle those who aren't eligible to get vaccinated yet, perhaps just requiring masking under certain circumstances.

 

Picking 95% is somewhat arbitrary, and it apparently is already being discussed behind the scenes about dropping that to something more like 75% with regard to masking requirements in public indoor spaces, anyway.

 

The problem is all the adults who are eligible to be vaccinated but choosing not to do so yet demanding to go anywhere and everywhere who think they're entitled to be among those 5% or 25% unvaccinated portions of the manifest.

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3 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

NCL refused to sail out of Florida because they want to sail 100% vaccinated (no kids unvaccinated or adults who can't be vaccinated) but Florida law prohibits them from asking for proof of vaccine.  This is what NCL vs State of Florida is about.

Other than FL are they sailing form anywhere else that requires 100% vaxxed.  They should be good to go.

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Question to the attorneys on this forum.  What happens next?  Will the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta still hear the full CDC appeals case? Or is this case going directly before the Supreme Court?  Too many courts and lawsuits to keep up with.....help!  

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1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

Question to the attorneys on this forum.  What happens next?  Will the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta still hear the full CDC appeals case? Or is this case going directly before the Supreme Court?  Too many courts and lawsuits to keep up with.....help!  

CDC has two options left: go back and petition the entire 11th circuit to take up the case (which Florida already did when the initial ruling came out), or elevate their case to the Supreme Court (which Florida has also already done). Justice Thomas will make a unilateral decision to either allow the case to go to the full court (when they resume their session in October), or send it back to the 11th circuit.

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Hell hath no fury like a government agency scorned....https://www.reuters.com/world/us/cdc-says-mask-rules-will-apply-florida-cruise-ships-not-following-sail-order-2021-07-24/

 

But if does not appear that this rule will impact cruise ships since the ships sailing out of US ports are following CSO 'guidance'.  Not sure any cruise line would plan on allowing anyone to be maskless unless they were essentially a fully vaccinated cruise (based on CDC 95% rule)

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49 minutes ago, orville99 said:

CDC has two options left: go back and petition the entire 11th circuit to take up the case (which Florida already did when the initial ruling came out), or elevate their case to the Supreme Court (which Florida has also already done). Justice Thomas will make a unilateral decision to either allow the case to go to the full court (when they resume their session in October), or send it back to the 11th circuit.

This is right except for one detail.  Since 1990 each supreme court session is not adjourned until the next one begins, so the court is continually "in session."  Justice Thomas is still the gatekeeper with respect to stay applications in the 11th Circuit, and could act by himself, but here he would surely transmit a stay application to the whole court for consideration.  Whether the whole court (or the en banc 11th circuit) would reinstate the CDC's no sail order, I can't say.  In the meantime, Judge Merryday's order is in force in Florida only, meaning that the no sail order is not enforceable in Florida only.   

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Getting back to the topic of the court case, what will happen to scheduled test cruises now that they are no longer required?

 

Only five ships that are set to sail from Florida out of at least 65 have been currently approved under the CDC’s protocols -- does this mean that all 65 can sail now without a test cruise and certificate?

 

Some law professors are saying the court of appeals reversal decision is surprising because the Friday decision came from the same three judges who ruled in favor the CDC just days before. Actually 2 were in favor and one dissented before and now all three reversed that decision.  This was after the case was filed at the Supreme Court. 

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Celebrity Edge has cruised out of Port Everglades for the past 3 weeks. They had a 95% vaccinated ratio to a 5% unvaccinated. To my understanding, these were not Test Cruises. Celebrity got around the 'Ask' by allowing those who boarded to volunteer if they were vaccinated. Those vaccinated were issued wrist bands to wear.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2021 at 6:32 PM, smokeybandit said:

 

 

1) this was the USAC 11th Circuit acting on their own, that is, it wasn't FL requesting review or any non-party. They apparently re-read the filing and determined the CDC did not demonstrate injury, irreparable harm, etc. if the injunction was let be.

2) This doesn't mean in any way the appeal was denied, the appeal still very much on (at least prior to FL side stepping appeals and going to USSC), what they vacated was their own stay of the injunction they had delivered a week prior, until appeal is heard.   

Edited by coldflame
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15 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Getting back to the topic of the court case, what will happen to scheduled test cruises now that they are no longer required?

 

Only five ships that are set to sail from Florida out of at least 65 have been currently approved under the CDC’s protocols -- does this mean that all 65 can sail now without a test cruise and certificate?

 

Some law professors are saying the court of appeals reversal decision is surprising because the Friday decision came from the same three judges who ruled in favor the CDC just days before. Actually 2 were in favor and one dissented before and now all three reversed that decision.  This was after the case was filed at the Supreme Court. 

 

Absolutely nothing will change; the cruise lines are following the CDC requirements voluntarily now.

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On 7/23/2021 at 5:55 PM, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

Actually, reading the filing on the supreme court, given the 11th circuit's own order to vacate the stay, this case might be moot.

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