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Is Royal Caribbean trying to get all Canadians to cancel their planned cruises?


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4 hours ago, XLVIII said:

Are you able to get a third shot in Alberta? We’re in Calgary too and would love to have that option. So far I’ve only heard of Quebec and Nova Scotia considering third doses. 


You will need to find a receptive Pharmacist, we live outside of Calgary now and have one willing to give it and has done so for others and another who was not willing.  Much like getting information on this from Royal it’s a crap shoot what answer you’ll get 🤷‍♀️

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On 7/25/2021 at 4:02 AM, Russ Lomas said:

I just posted this in the Canadian group, but I would also like it here as well since I know that all members do not read that other group.  This information was shared with me from another thread here but may get overlooked by many.

 

Based on what is now posted on the RCCL website, you must have both of your vaccines (regardless of type) less than 42 days apart, otherwise you are considered unvaccinated by RCCL rules.  I do not think there are any (or VERY few Canadians) who were vaccinated less than 42 days apart due to supply shortages.

 

From the RCCL website below:

The U.S. CDC advises that a vaccine series should be completed with products from the same manufacturer, as the safety of a mixed-product series has not been fully evaluated. However, Royal Caribbean will accommodate guests who are vaccinated with mixed mRNA vaccines, such as 1 shot of Pfizer and 1 shot of Moderna. The doses must be separated by at least 28 days and not more than 42 days.

 

If you look at the CDC website, this is their recommendation:

You should get your second shot as close to the recommended 3-week or 4-week interval as possible. However, your second dose may be given up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose, if necessary. You should not get the second dose early. There is currently limited information on the effectiveness of receiving your second shot earlier than recommended or later than 6 weeks after the first shot.

 

That will basically mean all Canadians are now considered UNVACCINATED according to the new info on the RCCL site.  This really screws us fully vaccinated Canadians who got two of the same vaccine as quick as our government permitted us to do so.

 

Our travel agent has reached out to RCCL for clarification, but I think Mr. Bayley's email needs to be flooded to get them to reverse this decision.

 

mbayley@rccl.com

so what happens with australians who have had 2 doses of astro zenica  but were 12 weeks apart as mandated by our government....same might be the case with UK citizens who have had AZ

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6 minutes ago, allwyn said:

so what happens with australians who have had 2 doses of astro zenica  but were 12 weeks apart as mandated by our government....same might be the case with UK citizens who have had AZ

 

Two doses of AZ within 12 weeks is probably okay, except maybe if the doses came from India.  Longer than 12 weeks is not wholly clear; if RCCL is applying a maximum interval between mRNA doses, which is apparently still an open question, then it would stand to reason that they would do the same with AZ.

 

Mixed AZ / mRNA is okay as long as the cruise does not depart from the US and the doses were administered 8-12 weeks apart.

 

But unless you're cruising inside the next couple of months (seems unlikely, with Australia's current border restrictions?) it likely doesn't matter.  The acceptable vaccination policy has already changed three times since I booked my cruise two weeks ago.  And it's likely to change again soon, since the current policy makes no sense, is not clearly communicated, is not consistent with any other organization (including the CDC), and will result in many cancellations.

 

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On 7/25/2021 at 3:56 AM, twangster said:

Once the science is on Canada's side and supports the approach that Canada took with respect to the vaccine rollout, only then will it be known to be safe.   

I agree with you. So far, it looks like it has been safe. Indeed, the entire reason that we put off second doses for so long was the idea that getting the largest number of people vaccinated, was better than half that number fully vaxxed, as we had issues with getting the vaccines to begin with.  And it did help case numbers fall significantly. 

 

Not only that, Canada does have one of the highest vaccine take-up rates in the world (against similar or larger countries). 80% of those eligible have received their first dose; 63% have received their second dose (though I think the fact that we had some of the most widespread lockdowns outside of perhaps Australia put a pep in people's step, as it was considered a strong method of ending those lockdowns.

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This is so frustrating!!! We are in ontario and in the same mixed vaccine situation and have paid our oct cruise in full. Hoping this gets reversed soon!! I dont want to sail as unvaccinated. Hoping the cdc reverses course soon:(

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6 minutes ago, Brownezes72 said:

This is so frustrating!!! We are in ontario and in the same mixed vaccine situation and have paid our oct cruise in full. Hoping this gets reversed soon!! I dont want to sail as unvaccinated. Hoping the cdc reverses course soon:(

I feel your pain.  My cruise is in November and also mixed.  

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9 hours ago, mabt said:

 

Two doses of AZ within 12 weeks is probably okay, except maybe if the doses came from India.  Longer than 12 weeks is not wholly clear; if RCCL is applying a maximum interval between mRNA doses, which is apparently still an open question, then it would stand to reason that they would do the same with AZ.

 

Mixed AZ / mRNA is okay as long as the cruise does not depart from the US and the doses were administered 8-12 weeks apart.

 

But unless you're cruising inside the next couple of months (seems unlikely, with Australia's current border restrictions?) it likely doesn't matter.  The acceptable vaccination policy has already changed three times since I booked my cruise two weeks ago.  And it's likely to change again soon, since the current policy makes no sense, is not clearly communicated, is not consistent with any other organization (including the CDC), and will result in many cancellations.

 

Im a UK resident. I had 2x Astrazeneca split 10 weeks apart with 1 dose being one of the "made in India" batches 😄

Thankfully I'm not sailing RCI until January (out of a US port) so no idea what's going to happen there. Or if the US/UK border will even be open by then.

 

I'm currently Onboard MSC Virtuosa sailing round the British Isles who were more than happy with the vaccine I've had.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Brownezes72 said:

This is so frustrating!!! We are in ontario and in the same mixed vaccine situation and have paid our oct cruise in full. Hoping this gets reversed soon!! I dont want to sail as unvaccinated. Hoping the cdc reverses course soon:(

Our October cruise out of Bayonne is paid in full as well, using FCCs from previously cancelled cruises. We've both had double doses of Pfizer but they were 64 days apart. We'll be waiting until August 21 to see if the US opens up their side of the US/CAN border, and also to see what the vaccination guidelines for NJ departures will be once the Oasis test cruise out of Bayonne in August is complete. If there's any ambiguity at all in the guidelines (like there seems to be right now) we'll cancel and move the FCCs to a cruise in late 2022.

Edited by Chrislynn55
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We are Canadian and double Pfizer.  I am exactly at 42 days (5/13 & 6/23) and hubby @Shadow_the_Shichon is a few days less.  Hopefully the 42 day thing is just for mixed doses cause I am cutting it awfully close and I sail in less than a month...

 

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To update everyone on how this stands currently.  I am awaiting word back personally from RCCL regarding the topic in this thread that I started.  My email to them was acknowledged on Monday that it had been received and is being investigated, but they have not called me back yet or emailed me again.

 

That said, I can confirm another Canadian traveler who I know has been told that he is considered unvaccinated for his cruise this week and he had 2 doses of Pfizer and he missed the 42-day cutoff date by a few days.  This is just not right.

 

We are hearing all this data saying that delaying the 2nd shot gives you more protection, but we moved our kids' 2nd doses up so that we could go on this cruise.  The kids got their 2nd shots at 45 days and they are considered unvaccinated.  The frustration, anger, and tears that will come out of this and the way it is being handled is agonizing.  I can't imagine how the kids are going to take it either when they find out if RCCL does not change this policy.

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On 7/26/2021 at 3:23 PM, topnole said:

Debunked?   By who?   
 

They did specifically say not to wear masks and in fact they said they wouldn’t protect the average person and if worn wrong could cause more harm than good (among other poor messaging themes).  Now as to why they said what they said can be discussed, but your idea of debunked is interesting because they absolutely said masks aren’t needed for the general public before they changed their minds on the message.  
 

The WHO and the CDC did a really bad job on this because they think people are too stupid to understand things and they didn’t want to create panic. 
 

Taken out of context, and then the situation changed and for some reason, people keep going back to the original statement instead of everything. that. has. been. said. since. then.  

 

"

It shows footage from CBS’ "60 Minutes" on March 8, when Fauci said that, in general, people did not need to wear masks when they went outside. The video is framed by the words, "Dr. Fauci: No reason to be wearing a mask." 

The 40-second clip starts off with Fauci saying, "Right now, people should not be walking, there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask." He said masks do not provide the "perfect protection" against contracting the virus that people think. The clip ends with Fauci saying, "When you think masks, you should think of healthcare providers needing them."

The clip ends with Fauci wearing a mask. The Facebook user who posted this video in June said Americans are "being toyed with."

It is not apparent to many viewers that Fauci’s statements were cherry-picked, and the video is four months old."

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jul/08/facebook-posts/video-shows-outdated-face-mask-guidance-dr-anthony/

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25 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

We are hearing all this data saying that delaying the 2nd shot gives you more protection, but we moved our kids' 2nd doses up so that we could go on this cruise.  The kids got their 2nd shots at 45 days and they are considered unvaccinated.  The frustration, anger, and tears that will come out of this and the way it is being handled is agonizing.  I can't imagine how the kids are going to take it either when they find out if RCCL does not change this policy.

 

This is my thing too.  If it were just my husband and me, I probably would have given up and cancelled by now.  My kids are fully aware of the situation, so it won't come as a big shock to them if we can't go, but they will still be very disappointed.  It's been a long year and a half, and of course they are looking forward to a vacation.

 

My kids are actually just under the line (41 and 38 days), but it's not like they can go without us.

 

Thanks for the update.  That is terrible news for your friend.  How frustrating.  🙁   I responded last night to the lady from the executive office that replied yesterday.  I stressed that since RCCL is the only organization drawing this 42-day line, it would appear to be within their control to change it, and that for some of us, time is of the essence.  If we're not going to be able to go, I'd rather cut my losses in time to plan a consolation vacation.  I've not yet had another response, but if I hear anything useful I will report back.

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3 minutes ago, mabt said:

 

This is my thing too.  If it were just my husband and me, I probably would have given up and cancelled by now.  My kids are fully aware of the situation, so it won't come as a big shock to them if we can't go, but they will still be very disappointed.  It's been a long year and a half, and of course they are looking forward to a vacation.

 

My kids are actually just under the line (41 and 38 days), but it's not like they can go without us.

 

Thanks for the update.  That is terrible news for your friend.  How frustrating.  🙁   I responded last night to the lady from the executive office that replied yesterday.  I stressed that since RCCL is the only organization drawing this 42-day line, it would appear to be within their control to change it, and that for some of us, time is of the essence.  If we're not going to be able to go, I'd rather cut my losses in time to plan a consolation vacation.  I've not yet had another response, but if I hear anything useful I will report back.

Thank you so much for your kind words.  It angers me that they are doing things like this that are fully within their realm to decide upon.  They are the only cruise line doing this.  Not even their sister-brand Celebrity is making any mention of this.  I know others will argue that it is their ship and they can do as they like, but to spring something like this on us days before the cruise is....

 

My two oldest daughters have already been granted 2 weeks off work that they would have been working to help pay for their university.  We have thousands invested in non-refundable air travel.  Our youngest kids did not want the shots but agreed to get them so they could go on this summer cruise.  UGGGHHH

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16 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

Thank you so much for your kind words.  It angers me that they are doing things like this that are fully within their realm to decide upon.  They are the only cruise line doing this.  Not even their sister-brand Celebrity is making any mention of this.  I know others will argue that it is their ship and they can do as they like, but to spring something like this on us days before the cruise is....

 

My two oldest daughters have already been granted 2 weeks off work that they would have been working to help pay for their university.  We have thousands invested in non-refundable air travel.  Our youngest kids did not want the shots but agreed to get them so they could go on this summer cruise.  UGGGHHH

 

It's a mess, for sure.  I feel for you.  And everyone else in this situation.

 

If I hear anything before you do, I'll be certain to tag you!

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The CDC guidance on vaccine administration says that the second does of either Moderna or Pfizer should be giving within 42 days and no earlier than either 17 days for Pfizer or 24 days for Moderna.  So I would expect anything outside of that timing would mean someone is not fully vaccinated under the CDC interpretation.  That's what RCL has to go by in the US.  It may change but if it does I suspect it'll be months not weeks.  I'd certainly plan accordingly if in this situation just in case.  

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It will be interesting to see what the USA entry requirements are when the border opens up.  If they will be using the 42 days etc.  as a requirement to enter by land.  Right now, that is not the case when you fly in.  If you can enter the country and go to hotels and restaurants without all these restrictions why couldn't you cruise as vaccinated.  This doesn't make sense.

We are on a B2B2B in February.  This will be impossible with the 42 days limitation. Considered "unvaccinated" so no B2B.

We also have 3 weeks at Disney World planned so, cruising might just not be where we will be spending our money.

 

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What I don't understand is ... why is Canada opening our Borders to U.S. Citizens when they feel we are not fully Vaccinated? .... isn't that putting our Country at Risk?

 

  Sorry for the Vent

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12 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

To update everyone on how this stands currently.  I am awaiting word back personally from RCCL regarding the topic in this thread that I started.  My email to them was acknowledged on Monday that it had been received and is being investigated, but they have not called me back yet or emailed me again.

 

That said, I can confirm another Canadian traveler who I know has been told that he is considered unvaccinated for his cruise this week and he had 2 doses of Pfizer and he missed the 42-day cutoff date by a few days.  This is just not right.

 

We are hearing all this data saying that delaying the 2nd shot gives you more protection, but we moved our kids' 2nd doses up so that we could go on this cruise.  The kids got their 2nd shots at 45 days and they are considered unvaccinated.  The frustration, anger, and tears that will come out of this and the way it is being handled is agonizing.  I can't imagine how the kids are going to take it either when they find out if RCCL does not change this policy.

 

 

Been following this thread and also posts on other social media outlets.  I am double Pfizer dose 72 days apart with a B2B on Oasis in Sept.  I am mentally exhausted by all the logistics and planning I have had to do re insurance, making sure I was vaccinated, trying to find flights since as you know the land  border is not open ( our preference is to drive to Cape Liberty) finding a place locally that will do the PCR test for my flight.    Holding off on booking flights and then this potential issue surfaced.   I do not understand the difference in wording re accepted vaccines between RCG and Celebrity, I  listened yesterday to a webinar where Celebrity rep explicitly made no mention of the duration between vaccines.  

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14 hours ago, Canadian Disney Mom said:

We are Canadian and double Pfizer.  I am exactly at 42 days (5/13 & 6/23) and hubby @Shadow_the_Shichon is a few days less.  Hopefully the 42 day thing is just for mixed doses cause I am cutting it awfully close and I sail in less than a month...

 

You are 41 days apart if that helps....not 42

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3 hours ago, BrianB said:

What I don't understand is ... why is Canada opening our Borders to U.S. Citizens when they feel we are not fully Vaccinated? .... isn't that putting our Country at Risk?

 

  Sorry for the Vent

Because Canada is weak.

As weak as my country Germany- We authorize all US tourists entering Europe and reciprocally we are not allowed to enter the USA. So our transatlantic cruise from Barcelone to Cap Caneveral is off limits for Europeans. 

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From the CDC:

 

You should get your second shot as close to the recommended 3-week or 4-week interval as possible. However, your second dose may be given up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose, if necessary. You should not get the second dose early. There is currently limited information on the effectiveness of receiving your second shot earlier than recommended or later than 6 weeks after the first shot.

From this CDC page.

 

I'm sure the information will change over time as sufficient data surfaces.  The CDC is not known for changing things on the whim or quickly without a good reason and I don't think in their eyes that travel is sufficient reason to cause them to cut additional corners.  They have a committee that looks at these issues called the ACIP then a formal approval process.  

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3 hours ago, BrianB said:

What I don't understand is ... why is Canada opening our Borders to U.S. Citizens when they feel we are not fully Vaccinated? .... isn't that putting our Country at Risk?

 

  Sorry for the Vent


Politics
Not sure the actual logic or reasons, but you can bet it's based in politics at this point.

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4 hours ago, rvlandandsea said:

It will be interesting to see what the USA entry requirements are when the border opens up.  If they will be using the 42 days etc.  as a requirement to enter by land.  Right now, that is not the case when you fly in.  If you can enter the country and go to hotels and restaurants without all these restrictions why couldn't you cruise as vaccinated.  This doesn't make sense.

We are on a B2B2B in February.  This will be impossible with the 42 days limitation. Considered "unvaccinated" so no B2B.

We also have 3 weeks at Disney World planned so, cruising might just not be where we will be spending our money.

 

 

There's been no sign they'll start using vaccination as any sort of entry requirement. Unfortunately.

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5 hours ago, DeanD said:

The CDC guidance on vaccine administration says that the second does of either Moderna or Pfizer should be giving within 42 days and no earlier than either 17 days for Pfizer or 24 days for Moderna.  So I would expect anything outside of that timing would mean someone is not fully vaccinated under the CDC interpretation.  That's what RCL has to go by in the US.  It may change but if it does I suspect it'll be months not weeks.  I'd certainly plan accordingly if in this situation just in case.  

the CDC also goes on to state that in the event that your second dose falls outside of that timeframe you are not to get an additional shot and you are considered fully vaccinated.

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