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Celebrity vs. Royal Caribbean, Transatlantics from Barcelona and Southampton October 2022


4774Papa
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I have been comparing transatlantic cruises from Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.  HUGE price differences.  Of course, Celebrity's price includes Always Included with perks.  Still, for those that don't want perks, Celebrity is not much value.

 

Royal Caribbean

Oct 17 from Southampton to Cape Liberty, NJ  12 days  Balcony cabin total for two $2028.

Oct 30 from Barcelona to  Galveston, TX, 14 days  Balcony cabin total for two $1797.60

 

Celebrity

Oct 12 from Barcelona to Cape Liberty, NJ 12 days  Balcony cabin total for two  $4,853.24

Oct 20 from Southampton to FL (forgot to write down), 14 days  Balcony cabin total for two $4,438.98

 

Every time that I check a TA cruise I get something like this.  Also, NCL is more than Royal but cheaper than Celebrity and NCL included perks as well.

 

When I post comments about X's high,  high prices (due much to AI, I get responses that mention "You can do the guarantee cabin without perks"--sorry I don't see that option on any cruises that I research for X.  When I check some just to see, like in the Caribbean, yes, I see them (usually on short cruises) and those prices are still too high (and with a guarantee cabin).

 

If you see cruises for Celebrity that are competitive, please let me know.  I don't see it now.

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X prices for similar itineraries (and RCL as well) can vary considerably with ship class.  For example, compare X $/day for Connie W.B. 2022 TA vs. Reflection (just one generation later), and Apex (another yet).  Be sure apples vs apples on X and RCL ship generation as well.

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8 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

I have been comparing transatlantic cruises from Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.  HUGE price differences.  Of course, Celebrity's price includes Always Included with perks.  Still, for those that don't want perks, Celebrity is not much value.

 

Royal Caribbean

Oct 17 from Southampton to Cape Liberty, NJ  12 days  Balcony cabin total for two $2028.

Oct 30 from Barcelona to  Galveston, TX, 14 days  Balcony cabin total for two $1797.60

 

Celebrity

Oct 12 from Barcelona to Cape Liberty, NJ 12 days  Balcony cabin total for two  $4,853.24

Oct 20 from Southampton to FL (forgot to write down), 14 days  Balcony cabin total for two $4,438.98

 

Every time that I check a TA cruise I get something like this.  Also, NCL is more than Royal but cheaper than Celebrity and NCL included perks as well.

 

When I post comments about X's high,  high prices (due much to AI, I get responses that mention "You can do the guarantee cabin without perks"--sorry I don't see that option on any cruises that I research for X.  When I check some just to see, like in the Caribbean, yes, I see them (usually on short cruises) and those prices are still too high (and with a guarantee cabin).

 

If you see cruises for Celebrity that are competitive, please let me know.  I don't see it now.

You are 100% correct. Once you have allowed for the tips AI has added $100 per person per day to the cost. If are Elite + and above who don't/ can't drink alcohol and don't need unlimited WiFi this is an extra cost with no benefit. Simply Sail is for guarantee cabins only on a very few itineraries. The maximum discount for SS rates (after adding back the tips) is $25 per person per day - I.e Celebrity are left with an additional profit of $75  per person per day.

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12 minutes ago, canderson said:

X prices for similar itineraries (and RCL as well) can vary considerably with ship class.  For example, compare X $/day for Connie W.B. 2022 TA vs. Reflection (just one generation later), and Apex (another yet).  Be sure apples vs apples on X and RCL ship generation as well.

You didn't provide specific comparisons.  Show me cruises, first transatlantics, then any cruise where Celebrity is competitive (even considering the ship class).

 

As far as ship class goes, we like the M and S class for Celebrity about the same.   The new ships, many have balcony cabins that are not really balconies.     

As for Royal, we don't book the mega ships, but ships about the size of X's.

 

SHOW me

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10 minutes ago, canderson said:

X prices for similar itineraries (and RCL as well) can vary considerably with ship class.  For example, compare X $/day for Connie W.B. 2022 TA vs. Reflection (just one generation later), and Apex (another yet).  Be sure apples vs apples on X and RCL ship generation as well.

This is a direct comparison - Silhouette Transatlantic cabin 7161.

The figures are per cabin per night in £'s as the 2021 cruise is shorter:

2019: Cruise, taxes and tips: £207

2021: Cruise, taxes and tips : £238

2021: AI pricing £379

increase without AI = 15%

Increase with AI = 83%

All figures from Celebrity - when we cancelled the 2021 Celebrity's cancellation invoice gave us the breakdown of the costs.

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3 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Show me cruises, first transatlantics, then any cruise where Celebrity is competitive (even considering the ship class

20% off via US site until 16th September.

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If price is the primary consideration it’s clear which Cruise you should book.  

AI pricing works for us since we pay gratuities, use a beverage package for more than a few beverages a day and need internet.  We are Diamond on Royal so we have some experience with them and find we much prefer Celebrity and will pay more to cruise with them.  

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

You didn't provide specific comparisons.  Show me cruises, first transatlantics, then any cruise where Celebrity is competitive (even considering the ship class).

 

As far as ship class goes, we like the M and S class for Celebrity about the same.   The new ships, many have balcony cabins that are not really balconies.     

As for Royal, we don't book the mega ships, but ships about the size of X's.

 

SHOW me

 

What are you looking for? TA's where Celebrity is comparable to Royal or other lines in general? 

 

When comparing 14 night TA's on both HAL and Princess, Celebrity is within a few hundred $$ on both. Princess's no inclusion fare is around $3,100 for the Sky Princess 10/29/22 cruise. At minimum you need to add $378 in gratuities to that price.

 

It's too early to look for guarantee fares on Celebrity a year+ in advance. If you want the lowest possible base price with nothing included, RCCL is the way to go. But if you're someone who wants drinks/grats and WiFi, on a 14 night TA that's of course going to cost you an $2k extra on Royal Caribbean.

 

If you're just picking outliers where Celebrity is more expensive, I can you show you a quote on similar Med cruises where a Vision of the Seas base fare is nearly $4,200 more than Celebrity for comparable cabins. 

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50 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

You didn't provide specific comparisons.  Show me cruises, first transatlantics, then any cruise where Celebrity is competitive (even considering the ship class).

 

As far as ship class goes, we like the M and S class for Celebrity about the same.   The new ships, many have balcony cabins that are not really balconies.     

As for Royal, we don't book the mega ships, but ships about the size of X's.

 

SHOW me

I'm asking you to do your own homework.  I've already done mine for 2022 WB TA trips on several different generations of X ships and how they're vastly different.  We were looking in particular at Constellation back from Rome, but landed on Reflection due to the Barcelona point of departure.

 

You'd want to compare (roughly) Radiance, Brilliance, Serenade, and Jewel, to the M Class ships.  But none of those even have TAs scheduled, so we'll go with the one ship of similar age, slightly bigger, that does have a TA in that time frame - the Adventure:

 

Of those, only Adventure has an October/November 22, 14 night TA scheduled, so comparisons here are already tight.  Compare to Constellation 15 nights.  Understanding that the pricing models due to add-ons are quite different (yes, I KNOW you're going to go to the AI corner, but the $200 in OBC alone, much less the tips included, covers the differences I'm seeing below):

 

Inside, RCL = $1044, X = $959

Ocean View, RCL = $1144, X = $1239

Veranda, RCL = $1556, X = $1679

Smallest Suite, RCL = $2659, X = (sold out, no prices)

 

I've done my part.  Try on the S class and beyond as well.

Edited by canderson
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48 minutes ago, the penguins said:

This is a direct comparison - Silhouette Transatlantic cabin 7161.

The figures are per cabin per night in £'s as the 2021 cruise is shorter:

2019: Cruise, taxes and tips: £207

2021: Cruise, taxes and tips : £238

2021: AI pricing £379

increase without AI = 15%

Increase with AI = 83%

All figures from Celebrity - when we cancelled the 2021 Celebrity's cancellation invoice gave us the breakdown of the costs.

Relevance?  The question wasn't year over year price increases;  I replied a specific question regarding RCL vs. X fares for WB TAs for 2022.

 

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2 hours ago, canderson said:

I'm asking you to do your own homework.  I've already done mine for 2022 WB TA trips on several different generations of X ships and how they're vastly different.  We were looking in particular at Constellation back from Rome, but landed on Reflection due to the Barcelona point of departure.

 

You'd want to compare (roughly) Radiance, Brilliance, Serenade, and Jewel, to the M Class ships.  But none of those even have TAs scheduled, so we'll go with the one ship of similar age, slightly bigger, that does have a TA in that time frame - the Adventure:

 

Of those, only Adventure has an October/November 22, 14 night TA scheduled, so comparisons here are already tight.  Compare to Constellation 15 nights.  Understanding that the pricing models due to add-ons are quite different (yes, I KNOW you're going to go to the AI corner, but the $200 in OBC alone, much less the tips included, covers the differences I'm seeing below):

 

Inside, RCL = $1044, X = $959

Ocean View, RCL = $1144, X = $1239

Veranda, RCL = $1556, X = $1679

Smallest Suite, RCL = $2659, X = (sold out, no prices)

 

I've done my part.  Try on the S class and beyond as well.

Sorry, I don't see numbers for the Connie cruise in what you posted. From X's website,  I see the total for the balcony cabin on the Connie cruise is $3603.46 with the $800 special off.  The Reflection cruise is $4183.48 for the balcony cabin.   

The Royal cruise from Rome on Odyssey runs $3,018.42 for a balcony cabin.  

Royal's Brilliance from Rome (15 days) runs $2,255.24 for a balcony cabin.

 

I agree that comparing the Odyssey (a new Royal ship) with X's Connie, you only have a $600 difference, which narrows with the bennies.   Still, you are hard pressed to find much favoring Celebrity, except that you are willing to pay MORE for Celebrity.

 

Still, when shopping for cruises, I am not willing to pay several hundreds or thousands more (true for the others that I showed).

Don't get me wrong, I like cruising on Celebrity and prefer them, but find the differences to be less, with X having a bit better dining, but Royal having much better entertainment.

 

As the other poster showed X's prices coupled with AI have seriously mushroomed recently.   Perhaps they will note and do more special pricing like the $800 off.   Still, for what I see, they are not competitive, especially for moderate drinkers that don't want the darn perks.

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30 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Sorry, I don't see numbers for the Connie cruise in what you posted.

Perhaps you're paying a different rate in Georgia <g>.

I took them directly from the X web site as I was typing.  Connie Fall '22 TA, right?

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7 hours ago, canderson said:

Relevance?  The question wasn't year over year price increases;  I replied a specific question regarding RCL vs. X fares for WB TAs for 2022.

 

Relevant

Relevance is Celebrity no longer have Simply Sail rates on any TA cruises so you which has increased their prices by $100 per person per day. Possibly a good deal if you drink alcohol,  a terrible deal if you are Elite+ and don't. We have canceled 2021 and switched to RC for 2022.

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9 hours ago, canderson said:

Perhaps you're paying a different rate in Georgia <g>.

I took them directly from the X web site as I was typing.  Connie Fall '22 TA, right?

That is what I did, to respond to your post.   I picked the lower priced option (letting the cruise line pick  your balcony cabin).  

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5 hours ago, the penguins said:

Relevant

Relevance is Celebrity no longer have Simply Sail rates on any TA cruises so you which has increased their prices by $100 per person per day. Possibly a good deal if you drink alcohol,  a terrible deal if you are Elite+ and don't. We have canceled 2021 and switched to RC for 2022.

You are absolute incorrect when you say that Celebrity no longer has Simply Sail rates on any TA.  Here  is just one example: Apex TA, October 10, 2021.

You probably should have said you have noticed any Simply Sail rates on any TA that interests you.

 

of course there is obviously no way that any person is going to ever convince you that any increased pricing  that you see  on any future cruise is anyway impacted by any factor except the  AI program.  
 

Repeating that absurd comment over and over does not make it a fact.

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12 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

 Still, for what I see, they are not competitive, especially for moderate drinkers that don't want the darn perks.

Then book a TA on Royal or wait for Sail Only rates.  Debating or posting price comparisons here isn’t going to change the pricing.  

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4 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Then book a TA on Royal or wait for Sail Only rates.  Debating or posting price comparisons here isn’t going to change the pricing.  

Yes and then stop asking people to do your homework for you!  😁

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When looking at the Sky Princess and their approximate $3000 (total cost) for a balcony (14 night Oct 2022 TA cruise) we would also get a $250 OBC from our cruise agent, $250 OBC because we are stockholders, and another $250j because I am a veteran.  So the real cost of that 14 day cruise would be around $2300 or about $82 per passenger day (this for a balcony cabin).   Now if you compare that to the 12 day X cruise (in the OPs post) that would cost just over $200 per person/day.     Based on a lot of previous cruise experience with both line we know that our per day cost on Princess (when we are paying for our drinks, tips, etc) is about $70 per person/day.   This means that the Princess cruise would ultimately cost us about $152 per passenger day vs $202 per passenger day on Celebrity.

 

So the final question would be is X worth $50 a passenger day (comparing apples to apples) compared to Princess.  I will not answer that question other then to say we would enjoy both cruises.  If we were to decide to book one of the options we would probably book Princess because we prefer the longer cruise.

 

Hank

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54 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Then book a TA on Royal or wait for Sail Only rates.  Debating or posting price comparisons here isn’t going to change the pricing.  

Wait for the Sail Only, for a guarantee cabin. sorry, I plan ahead and don't book at the last minute, especially for a trip to Europe.

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2 hours ago, jagoffee said:

You are absolute incorrect when you say that Celebrity no longer has Simply Sail rates on any TA.  Here  is just one example: Apex TA, October 10, 2021.

You probably should have said you have noticed any Simply Sail rates on any TA that interests you.

 

of course there is obviously no way that any person is going to ever convince you that any increased pricing  that you see  on any future cruise is anyway impacted by any factor except the  AI program.  
 

Repeating that absurd comment over and over does not make it a fact.

That Apex cruise is for this year, next month.  Wow, and Celebrity cancelled (months ago) my Reflection TA from Rome in the SAME month without a good explanation.  At that time there were NO other TA cruises from Rome.

 

By the way the Apex cruise from Rome for next year, for a real balcony, not a porthole one is $5,405.82 for a cabin, WITH NO Simply Sail option.

 

There is clearly a correlation between X's sky high prices and AI, however, I realize that correlation is not causation.   I wasn't privy to X's decisions, but I can compare to other cruise lines like Royal that don't require AI.   My comment is far from absurd.  I think it is likely that going AI gave X a way to raise prices significantly by slamming its loyal customers that don't want the perks.   OK, they want big spenders, well , I am a value consumer and compare.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

That Apex cruise is for this year, next month.  Wow, and Celebrity cancelled (months ago) my Reflection TA from Rome in the SAME month without a good explanation.  At that time there were NO other TA cruises from Rome.

 

By the way the Apex cruise from Rome for next year, for a real balcony, not a porthole one is $5,405.82 for a cabin, WITH NO Simply Sail option.

 

There is clearly a correlation between X's sky high prices and AI, however, I realize that correlation is not causation.   I wasn't privy to X's decisions, but I can compare to other cruise lines like Royal that don't require AI.   My comment is far from absurd.  I think it is likely that going AI gave X a way to raise prices significantly by slamming its loyal customers that don't want the perks.   OK, they want big spenders, well , I am a value consumer and compare.

 

 

4774Papa, I was not questioning your logic or assumptions.  My comment/quite was directed at penguins, who keeps insisting that any increase in Celebrity pricing is related to the AI change and even assigns a number to it.  

By the way Celebrity’s suites prices have increased significantly and a vast majority of the suite booking have included the AI features for several years.  I am not defending Celebrity, I am just convinced that there are a lot of factors that are leading the increased prices.  I happen to believe the AI model is not even the most significant factor impacting the pricing.

 

By the way, the October 10, 2021 Apex TA just keeps on giving.  First they change the departure date significantly and change the itinerary at the same time.  Now they have modified the itinerary again by removing Portugal from the itinerary, which makes it a 100% Spanish cruise.  At the same time, last week Celebrity announced  that all excursions have to be purchased/approved by Celebrity.  Obviously there continues to be a lot of uncertainty associated with the first TA of the season due to constantly changing Covid protocols. Non US citizens cruising have even a greater amount of uncertainty due to their entry into the US and the uncertainty of mixed vaccines.  A lot of pain being the first TA of the season.

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1 hour ago, 4774Papa said:

By the way the Apex cruise from Rome for next year, for a real balcony, not a porthole one is $5,405.82 for a cabin, WITH NO Simply Sail option

I booked the Oct 2022 Apex TA several months ago. My travel agent offered me two rates - one with “all included” and one without perks. I chose the rate with perks because the price difference was not dramatic. 
 

We were offered both rates for the cruise prior. That price difference was dramatic and we booked it without perks.

 

our TA does a lot of business with Celebrity.

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36 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

4774Papa, I was not questioning your logic or assumptions.  My comment/quite was directed at penguins, who keeps insisting that any increase in Celebrity pricing is related to the AI change and even assigns a number to it.  

By the way Celebrity’s suites prices have increased significantly and a vast majority of the suite booking have included the AI features for several years.  I am not defending Celebrity, I am just convinced that there are a lot of factors that are leading the increased prices.  I happen to believe the AI model is not even the most significant factor impacting the pricing.

 

By the way, the October 10, 2021 Apex TA just keeps on giving.  First they change the departure date significantly and change the itinerary at the same time.  Now they have modified the itinerary again by removing Portugal from the itinerary, which makes it a 100% Spanish cruise.  At the same time, last week Celebrity announced  that all excursions have to be purchased/approved by Celebrity.  Obviously there continues to be a lot of uncertainty associated with the first TA of the season due to constantly changing Covid protocols. Non US citizens cruising have even a greater amount of uncertainty due to their entry into the US and the uncertainty of mixed vaccines.  A lot of pain being the first TA of the season.

jagoffee,

Thanks, I suspect that the shutdown due to COVID19 has been a huge setback to all the cruise lines, so raising prices may be something of a product due to that.   However, I think X used bundling prices to raise prices significantly over what OTHER cruise lines have done.   NCL started price bundling a couple of years prior to the COVID19 crisis and it did result, prior to COVID19 in higher bundled prices.  However, NCL's prices have not mushroomed as much as Celebrity's.

 

I am not an accountant and don't lean to being picky about pricing, but my parents both were raised during the depression and they taught me the propriety of value.   They taught me to shop around.   Don't waste anything.    

 

When we started cruising 11 years ago, I always kept track of what we spent on our cruises.  I would take about half an hour at the end of the cruise to add up our total spending on things like alcohol, excursions, as well as other spending.   Prior to becoming Elite on Celebrity and enjoying happy hour, we would spend about $550 on average during a two week cruise.   After become Elite, that number dropped to about $350 for a two week cruise.    So when drink packages starting become big, their prices looked ridiculous to us, some costing $60-85 per day.   Finally, when NCL and Celebrity did the price bundling forcing the perks on us, it destroyed the value that we knew in the past.     Hopefully, at some point X will remember its moderate drinking loyal value customers some day. 

 

 

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