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I'm pretty sure the dress code has changed


lissie
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3 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Interesting that those who like the lower end of the dress code always seem to be the defensive ones while the rest of us who enjoy the upper end of the code lament the lose of overall ambiance but are not defensive. If one carefully reads the Cunard dress code tucked into the approval of the dress shirt and slacks is the mention of wearing attire that would be appropriate for a fine dining establishment on land. Odd maybe, but that means at least to me a restaurant with linen , a full setting of flatware, china and crystal and wait staff in some form of upscale uniform. To wear a dress shirt and slack with neither a jacket nor tie is an insult to the operators of that fine restaurant (Cunard in this case) who offer a formal dining room with staff in a formal livery. Surely one can find it in their sensibility to grant Cunard and the staff a better level of grace than a simple office level of shirt and slacks.

This is the issue though - I went to one of the best restaraunts in my home town recently for a birthday - I've been there off and on for 20 years. The standard of dress is the same the owners/matred wears a white business shirt, open neck, black trousers, the othe wait staff wear similar. No ties. My BIL who is elderly with dementia and dresses like he's still in the miltrary wore a tie and jacket - no one else in the place did. 

 

Jackets have pretty much disappeared from everywhere in NZ and Oz - I think you still have to wear a jacket if you dine at the restaurant associated with parliament - but that's so unusual its highlighted on their website 

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4 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

Interesting that those who like the lower end of the dress code always seem to be the defensive ones while the rest of us who enjoy the upper end of the code lament the lose of overall ambiance but are not defensive. If one carefully reads the Cunard dress code tucked into the approval of the dress shirt and slacks is the mention of wearing attire that would be appropriate for a fine dining establishment on land. Odd maybe, but that means at least to me a restaurant with linen , a full setting of flatware, china and crystal and wait staff in some form of upscale uniform. To wear a dress shirt and slack with neither a jacket nor tie is an insult to the operators of that fine restaurant (Cunard in this case) who offer a formal dining room with staff in a formal livery. Surely one can find it in their sensibility to grant Cunard and the staff a better level of grace than a simple office level of shirt and slacks.

It isn't a case of liking the lower end dress code. It's a case of wanting to see the  Cunard line survive. 

You make the basic error of assuming 'things' can stay the same in a changing world.  As a couple, we'd be more than happy to have every other night, a formal occasion.. That would sink the line very quickly.

As one who hopefully, has another twenty plus years cruising with Cunard, I hope the line is still in service and to do that, it needs passengers and to do that, it needs to appeal and to do that, at the moment it has tweaked the dress code. My husband will continue to wear a jacket on non formal evenings and the jacketless will mingle with the jacketed and very few will mind either way. Very few.

 

So you can mourn the passing of a dress code which sadly those in charge have decided no longer fits their model. You can continue to pour scorn on those who don't seem to fit your ideal, but I and  thousands  others will look forward to many excellent holidays on board Cunard, next year and for many years to come.

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1 hour ago, lissie said:

This is the issue though - I went to one of the best restaraunts in my home town recently for a birthday - I've been there off and on for 20 years. The standard of dress is the same the owners/matred wears a white business shirt, open neck, black trousers, the othe wait staff wear similar. No ties. My BIL who is elderly with dementia and dresses like he's still in the miltrary wore a tie and jacket - no one else in the place did. 

 

Jackets have pretty much disappeared from everywhere in NZ and Oz - I think you still have to wear a jacket if you dine at the restaurant associated with parliament - but that's so unusual its highlighted on their website 

I meant to add, and forgot so I'll quote you, jackets are preferred [but not obligatory] or not required at many top end restaurants in the UK too. Sign of the times.

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2 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

I meant to add, and forgot so I'll quote you, jackets are preferred [but not obligatory] or not required at many top end restaurants in the UK too. Sign of the times.

Agreed - even the three Michelin star restaurant at the Connaught has no dress code, on their website they mention that most guests choose to dress smart casual.

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I don’t want to misrepresent others’ views here but I think few would disagree that standards of dress are becoming more informal in general and many of us have experienced that formality also varies from country to country. That isn’t the issue for us. Rather, it is whether Cunard will lose part of what makes it special by lowering the standard of the dress-code. 

 

Some are clearly of the view, and probably the management at Cunard too, that lowering the standards of dress in the evenings will make Cunard more attractive to a sufficiently large body of customers that this will offset those who decide to forego their trip because the special ambience onboard is lost. Time will tell who is right.

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22 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

 There is a huge difference between announcing one's own style, on anything  and presuming to impose it on others. 

 

I agree .This has been at the heart of the rancor in all dress code debates on this forum. Exploiting ambiguous wording on the part of Cunard, to press ones own point of view on others

 

The dress code police on this forum will have absolutely NO impact on Cunard.  If people don't like the new regime then they can either move on to another cruise line , if not then they'll have to accept it. 

 

Personally I feel if people stick to SMART casual,  with the emphasis on SMART it won't be a retrograde step. Messing with the formal dress code and frequency of formal nights is more serious, but that's just my opinion. 

 

I won't let a trivial thing like this stop me choosing  Cunard if the timing and itinerary are the right cruise for me.  I'm not into cutting off my nose to spite my face 

 

 

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From reading this thread, it seems that 'slacks' are in the 'top end' of the dress code.

 

However, I always think of slacks as Crimplene (or other man man fibre) trousers with elasticated waists, usually in beige, often teamed with a beige zip up jacket.

 

Is that just me, or does slacks have a different meaning in the US? 

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I have been cruising for over 50 years. I love to dress for dinner a smart/cocktail dress  for informal, evening dress for formal nights and trousers and smart top on casual nights. I shall continue as I wish as this is part of my voyage and let others dress as they wish as it is their choice.  

 

It is for the staff to ensure conformity of the dress code. As long as I can satisfy myself I conform so be it.

If it means sending luggage ahead on a world cruise I am happy to do so . We are all individuals and our dress reflects this.  I choose to travel with Cunard because I like their standards but I accept the world is changing and so are attitudes.

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5 hours ago, Elephant1151 said:

I have been cruising for over 50 years. I love to dress for dinner a smart/cocktail dress  for informal, evening dress for formal nights and trousers and smart top on casual nights. I shall continue as I wish as this is part of my voyage and let others dress as they wish as it is their choice.  

 

It is for the staff to ensure conformity of the dress code. As long as I can satisfy myself I conform so be it.

If it means sending luggage ahead on a world cruise I am happy to do so . We are all individuals and our dress reflects this.  I choose to travel with Cunard because I like their standards but I accept the world is changing and so are attitudes.

Well written.  

Agree, over the last 20 years people’s attitude to “standards” in many aspects of life has changed, but not for the better.  

We are told this by the new “me/me generation” that this is the future, to accept and embrace it, plus not to worry, as the World’s future is in their hands.

Maybe the next target for the new me/me generation is to rid the World of “White Tie” Dinners/Functions.  


 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

From reading this thread, it seems that 'slacks' are in the 'top end' of the dress code.

 

However, I always think of slacks as Crimplene (or other man man fibre) trousers with elasticated waists, usually in beige, often teamed with a beige zip up jacket.

 

Is that just me, or does slacks have a different meaning in the US? 

Here it is chinos are the casual trouser one up from jeans and slacks would be considered better than both. From there it depends on the cut and the fabric and the color. All can be worn with a blazer in a variety of colors but for the best look wool or linen slacks (trousers) hold a crease better and give the outfit a more dressed up appearance.

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1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

Well written.  

Agree, over the last 20 years people’s attitude to “standards” in many aspects of life has changed, but not for the better.  

We are told this by the new “me/me generation” that this is the future, to accept and embrace it, plus not to worry, as the World’s future is in their hands.

Maybe the next target for the new me/me generation is to rid the World of “White Tie” Dinners/Functions.  


 

 

 

 

 

Actually in the US it is the forty somethings that have brought back the cocktail party and seem to enjoy dressing up. The younger ones and the boomers are the ones that wish to let it all hang out in casual gear.

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1 hour ago, Lakesregion said:

Actually in the US it is the forty somethings that have brought back the cocktail party and seem to enjoy dressing up. The younger ones and the boomers are the ones that wish to let it all hang out in casual gear.

Actually I was going to  comment something similar. An older blogger who travelled on the new Virgin ship (no  dress code stated or required) thought that the younger passengers were doing more dressing up than the older ones. This was a recent cruise ex UK 

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1 hour ago, Lakesregion said:

Actually in the US it is the forty somethings that have brought back the cocktail party and seem to enjoy dressing up. The younger ones and the boomers are the ones that wish to let it all hang out in casual gear.

I agree! My actual thoughts were that if Cunard marketed the dress code as "mid-century golden-age of cruising cosplay" they'd attract a crowd...especially if they had professional actors walking around as movie stars from that era, plus some cover bands. I'd have to pack a whole case full of hats just for a TA!!

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5 hours ago, AMHuntFerry said:

I agree! My actual thoughts were that if Cunard marketed the dress code as "mid-century golden-age of cruising cosplay" they'd attract a crowd...especially if they had professional actors walking around as movie stars from that era, plus some cover bands. I'd have to pack a whole case full of hats just for a TA!!

Actually a company in the US has done just that.  Not a full charter but I think they have block-booked some cabins on 3 transatlantics next year and are offering a “vintage” experience with dressing up and musical events. 

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5 hours ago, Sabrina66 said:

Actually a company in the US has done just that.  Not a full charter but I think they have block-booked some cabins on 3 transatlantics next year and are offering a “vintage” experience with dressing up and musical events. 

I would love to know more about that!  I still have my dresses and shoes from the Hangar Dances and the big band dances at our local ballroom, neither of which exist now.  Great dance music.

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11 hours ago, Sabrina66 said:

Actually a company in the US has done just that.  Not a full charter but I think they have block-booked some cabins on 3 transatlantics next year and are offering a “vintage” experience with dressing up and musical events. 

But they don't have an oceanliner in their fleet...has to be an oceanliner to be authentic, otherwise it's just kitschy (and while I love some kitsch, I'm not paying thousands of dollars for it). Cunard is uniquely positioned to provide an authentic experience without even trying very hard. They could even convert a room to "steerage-class" if people want a truly authentic experience 😉

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7 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

I would love to know more about that!  I still have my dresses and shoes from the Hangar Dances and the big band dances at our local ballroom, neither of which exist now.  Great dance music.

 

@Sabrina66's post got my curiosity. Here's what I've found. There's a travel agent based in Texas advertising "Vintage themed Transatlantic crossings on the Queen Mary 2". They are currently advertising these three westbound crossings and performers.

 

April 24, 2022 - Alex Mendham & His Orchestra

May 8, 2022 - The Glenn Miller Orchestra

October 18, 2022 - Dandy Wellington & His Band

 

Their FAQ says

"Our vintage group will be an intimate private party of approximately 300 people so that everyone can fit comfortably in the Queen’s Room to enjoy the private events."

and

"Throughout the voyage, there will be five private performances plus a cocktail party along with the option of additional daytime meetups. Our main events will usually take place in the Queen’s Room between 6pm and 8pm."

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2 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

 

@Sabrina66's post got my curiosity. Here's what I've found. There's a travel agent based in Texas advertising "Vintage themed Transatlantic crossings on the Queen Mary 2". They are currently advertising these three westbound crossings and performers.

 

April 24, 2022 - Alex Mendham & His Orchestra

May 8, 2022 - The Glenn Miller Orchestra

October 18, 2022 - Dandy Wellington & His Band

 

Their FAQ says

"Our vintage group will be an intimate private party of approximately 300 people so that everyone can fit comfortably in the Queen’s Room to enjoy the private events."

and

"Throughout the voyage, there will be five private performances plus a cocktail party along with the option of additional daytime meetups. Our main events will usually take place in the Queen’s Room between 6pm and 8pm."

Aack! Now I feel like a dolt. I read "company" as cruise line. I hope these are well attended so that it can become a whole ship experience. 🙂

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15 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

 

@Sabrina66's post got my curiosity. Here's what I've found. There's a travel agent based in Texas advertising "Vintage themed Transatlantic crossings on the Queen Mary 2". They are currently advertising these three westbound crossings and performers.

 

April 24, 2022 - Alex Mendham & His Orchestra

May 8, 2022 - The Glenn Miller Orchestra

October 18, 2022 - Dandy Wellington & His Band

 

Their FAQ says

"Our vintage group will be an intimate private party of approximately 300 people so that everyone can fit comfortably in the Queen’s Room to enjoy the private events."

and

"Throughout the voyage, there will be five private performances plus a cocktail party along with the option of additional daytime meetups. Our main events will usually take place in the Queen’s Room between 6pm and 8pm."

Looks like we will be starting our crossing the same day "Dandy Wellington" is disembarking - Mrs Bear and I usually find some music that fits our limited set of swing dance moves even with the normal Queens Room orchestra. We'll just need to console ourselves with singing in the passenger chorus.

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1 hour ago, bluemarble said:

 

@Sabrina66's post got my curiosity. Here's what I've found. There's a travel agent based in Texas advertising "Vintage themed Transatlantic crossings on the Queen Mary 2". They are currently advertising these three westbound crossings and performers.

 

April 24, 2022 - Alex Mendham & His Orchestra

May 8, 2022 - The Glenn Miller Orchestra

October 18, 2022 - Dandy Wellington & His Band

 

Their FAQ says

"Our vintage group will be an intimate private party of approximately 300 people so that everyone can fit comfortably in the Queen’s Room to enjoy the private events."

 

 

I wonder if they were going to tell the other 1700  odd passengers that the premier evening destination would be unavailable to them several/all./many nights? I'd personally be very pissed off because 6-8 knocks out the early evening ballroom session for those on late seating at dinner 

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lissie,  That's an excellent point.  Especially on Cunard, where many people book with the anticipation of dancing, it would be extremely disappointing to find closed doors.

There are some posts elsewhere about charters and partial charters disrupting the expected cruise experience.

I looked at the site of that company; it now seems less enticing to me, for some reason.

 

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To concur with what others have said, in recent years up to the pandemic I noted on lines such as Holland America, Celebrity, and Princess that the mid 20’s through forties crowd generally made much more of an effort to dress up than the older crowd, certainly found that a bit surprising as well as sad.

One thing I always liked about formal evenings on Cunard was near universal participation versus maybe 25% or less of men in black tie on the aforementioned.

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43 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

To concur with what others have said, in recent years up to the pandemic I noted on lines such as Holland America, Celebrity, and Princess that the mid 20’s through forties crowd generally made much more of an effort to dress up than the older crowd, certainly found that a bit surprising as well as sad.

One thing I always liked about formal evenings on Cunard was near universal participation versus maybe 25% or less of men in black tie on the aforementioned.

I think you are right -- the 45 to 65 year old schlubs have made their point -- and the next generation (as next generations are prone to do) are tiring of it.

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