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How Will Holland America Survive ?


mcrcruiser
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Personally, I don't want to wait til I'm at the pier to be tested.  Seems to me that I recall you are posting a lot of negative comments--are you cruising currently?   I prefer to be tested BEFORE I leave home so that I haven't incurred expenses I could have avoided should I be tested positive at the pier.  In Europe, it's another matter, but even more important, at least for one's own peace of mind, to be tested at home before departing to Europe, only to have a negative result just prior to boarding.  We just got off two weeks in Alaska on the NA and everyone wore their masks, everyone seemed to have fun, and everyone was glad to be tested in advance and be on the ship 100% vaccinated passengers and crew.  Crew said they are tested twice a week and they all wore KN95 masks all the time.  Doesn't seem to me that not testing at the pier is having a big effect on numbers.  We head back 10/1 to board the ship 10/2 to go through the Panama Canal; we're happy to be tested here at home 9/30.  And we're quarantining ourselves; we're thoroughly disappointed with the lack of care locals are taking to protect others should they themselves have covid.  And I got my Pfizer booster shot this afternoon.

Edited by 12cruise2
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1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

 Will HAL  make it easier for it's  customers  to get the  covid test at the pier  or what other good remedy should they put in place ,to keep people cruising  ?

 

I prefer to be tested before I go.
 

Unlike you, I don’t drive to my port - I fly to Europe.

 

We don’t always walk in everyone’s shoes and HAL seems to be doing quite well with their sailings in Europe, thank you. 

Travelling to Europe requires a test before we go and a test at the pier currently.  If that’s the way it is May so be it.

 

Not sure why you are even asking if HAL will survive ?  🤷‍♀️

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I think it really depends where you live. We had absolutely no trouble getting a test through my primary care doctor with results back in 24 hours and now with the emed/Binax Now ag home kit it is even easier. $150 for a pack of 6 which you can do from the comfort of your own home or any other place.

 

I am definitely of the mind that I want a negative result in hand before leaving home. It is one thing to test positive and need to cancel the trip, but arriving at the pier only to test positive and then need to quarantine in a far away city? No thank you.

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9 hours ago, 12cruise2 said:

Personally, I don't want to wait til I'm at the pier to be tested.  Seems to me that I recall you are posting a lot of negative comments--are you cruising currently?   I prefer to be tested BEFORE I leave home so that I haven't incurred expenses I could have avoided should I be tested positive at the pier.  In Europe, it's another matter, but even more important, at least for one's own peace of mind, to be tested at home before departing to Europe, only to have a negative result just prior to boarding.  We just got off two weeks in Alaska on the NA and everyone wore their masks, everyone seemed to have fun, and everyone was glad to be tested in advance and be on the ship 100% vaccinated passengers and crew.  Crew said they are tested twice a week and they all wore KN95 masks all the time.  Doesn't seem to me that not testing at the pier is having a big effect on numbers.  We head back 10/1 to board the ship 10/2 to go through the Panama Canal; we're happy to be tested here at home 9/30.  And we're quarantining ourselves; we're thoroughly disappointed with the lack of care locals are taking to protect others should they themselves have covid.  And I got my Pfizer booster shot this afternoon.

You might be giving too much credit go "all" HAL passengers.

Unfortunately there are many Americans where I live that believe they have the right to ignore any restrictions having to do with Covid. They will use fake results to board a ship. You should certainly test yourself at home. You could be positive and not know it.

I would also like to see all passengers tested at the pier.  That will make all of us safer.

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I don't think HAL will test at the pier in the US as their parent company Carnival came out last week and said there are no plans to do that.

 

I too prefer to test at home. Who would want to arrive at the pier and test positive? I was on the NA Alaska cruise and felt completely safe on the ship with the protocols HAL has in place. 

 

Covid 19 is a moving target and it is not going away. We have to learn to live with it. I  too am surprised at those ignoring masking, social distancing, and getting the vaccine etc. here in Tucson. I know of two elderly  people who spent the last two weeks of their lives on ventilators because they refused to get the vaccine. So sad.

 

HAL is sailing at between 70% to 80% in the US. I don't know what their break even point is. I think the other cruise lines are doing about the same capacity wise; only time will tell if the cruise lines can survive. I hope they all do.

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I'm also starting to be concerned about HAL and the cruise industry......

 

The hassle factor of cruising makes the choice to "just book a condo at the beach" so much easier, more convenient (no masks, testing),  and less risky for many. 

 

We are hopefully cruising from Amsterdam next month but complying with government "back and forth" rules has our head spinning and wondering if it is worth it......The types of covid tests, documentation of the vaccine, quarantine requirement (not required, then required and currently not required), health forms (government and cruise line), booster or not, risk of arriving at the pier and getting a negative test, fear of getting it and being in hotel jail, can we enter a restaurant in Europe w/our credentials, will I be masking up everywhere., no-one to wait on you, things not "in service" because of the Covid excuse.......Seriously, if the cruise had not been such a good price from 2 previously cancelled cruises and our desire to "get out there" not sure we would be going....And worried others are going to throw in the towel also and the only folks cruising will be the ones that are into all the Covid restrictions, masks, government control stuff......and that's not enough peeps to keep the business going.....

 

The requirements to be supposedly "safe" is quickly exceeding the value we have gotten out of travel....IMO

 

Hoping this crap improves quickly....I've got a bucket list to complete.

 

(Please don't judge or try to shame me about not understanding the seriousness of the pandemic...I get that...just explaining my point of view of what it is like for us to cruise today and why this is dangerous for the cruise industry)

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5 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

I'm also starting to be concerned about HAL and the cruise industry......

… And worried others are going to throw in the towel also and the only folks cruising will be the ones that are into all the Covid restrictions, masks, government control stuff......and that's not enough peeps to keep the business going.....

 

(Please don't judge or try to shame me about not understanding the seriousness of the pandemic...I get that...just explaining my point of view of what it is like for us to cruise today and why this is dangerous for the cruise industry)


Actually, I’d be really happy if the only people cruising are the ones that are into all the Covid restrictions & masks. I shudder at the idea of people falsifying paperwork but nothing would surprise me any more.

 

Not judging, not shaming you at all. I hear you - my time horizon for bucket list trips has shrunk by two years, too, and those were years in which I was physically ready & able. Can’t get those years back.  And I want HAL to survive because it’s my favorite line.

 

But it’s hardly just cruising that’s harder these days, US or international. Air travel requires masks. As of last week, every cultural venue where I live (theater, opera, ballet, orchestra, etc.) now requires vaccination & mask - or testing & mask. And we’re so happy they will even be open. I can finally see “Come from Away” this fall after two postponements.

 

So bottom line for us: we can stay home or take every available precaution and get back out there enjoying the world we now live in, as it is.

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20 minutes ago, Caribbean Chris said:

 

 

But it’s hardly just cruising that’s harder these days, US or international. Air travel requires masks. As of last week, every cultural venue where I live (theater, opera, ballet, orchestra, etc.) now requires vaccination & mask - or testing & mask. And we’re so happy they will even be open. I can finally see “Come from Away” this fall after two postponements.

 

 

=====

Come From Away is on Apple TV subscription.   Filmed live at Schoenfeld Theater.   I enjoyed it.

Peter

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2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

I'm also starting to be concerned about HAL and the cruise industry......

 

The hassle factor of cruising makes the choice to "just book a condo at the beach" so much easier, more convenient (no masks, testing),  and less risky for many. 

 

We are hopefully cruising from Amsterdam next month but complying with government "back and forth" rules has our head spinning and wondering if it is worth it......The types of covid tests, documentation of the vaccine, quarantine requirement (not required, then required and currently not required), health forms (government and cruise line), booster or not, risk of arriving at the pier and getting a negative test, fear of getting it and being in hotel jail, can we enter a restaurant in Europe w/our credentials, will I be masking up everywhere., no-one to wait on you, things not "in service" because of the Covid excuse.......Seriously, if the cruise had not been such a good price from 2 previously cancelled cruises and our desire to "get out there" not sure we would be going....And worried others are going to throw in the towel also and the only folks cruising will be the ones that are into all the Covid restrictions, masks, government control stuff......and that's not enough peeps to keep the business going.....

 

The requirements to be supposedly "safe" is quickly exceeding the value we have gotten out of travel....IMO

 

Hoping this crap improves quickly....I've got a bucket list to complete.

 

(Please don't judge or try to shame me about not understanding the seriousness of the pandemic...I get that...just explaining my point of view of what it is like for us to cruise today and why this is dangerous for the cruise industry)

I agree completely, our next cruise isn’t until February but even that far out we have mixed emotions.

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Like others, the very last place that I want to be tested is at the pier, waiting to board my ship.  Don't mind the test but there seems no point to our leaving home unless we are 'good to go'

 

I want to be tested at home.  Before I make the flight to reach my embarkation city.  Before I spend the time, the money on hotels, meals, transport.  Before we pack.

 

The very last thing I want is to take the chance of a negative pier test and then have to fly home.  All that money and time wasted.  Not to mention the frustration.

 

We do not subscribe to the view that HAL should look after us cradle to grave so to speak.  We view getting a covid test as our responsibility.  Much like having a passport or the requisite visas.

 

 

Edited by iancal
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4 hours ago, TomBeckCruise said:

You might be giving too much credit go "all" HAL passengers.

Unfortunately there are many Americans where I live that believe they have the right to ignore any restrictions having to do with Covid. They will use fake results to board a ship. You should certainly test yourself at home. You could be positive and not know it.

I would also like to see all passengers tested at the pier.  That will make all of us safer.

We're obviously giving way too much credit to HAL passengers, if any of them actually believe that people will show up to board a ship with fake Covid test results.  Please stop the wild accusations and fear mongering.

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I'm thinking about the OP's question in a larger sense. How will HAL survive in the long term?

 

I've thought for a while now that most of the Carnival Corp stable of brands took a decision (or were encouraged from the top) to be reactive rather than proactive on the whole COVID issue. Whether that's because Carnival had deeper pockets or for some reason thought it better to have a low profile during the pandemic, they have seemed to be on their heels throughout this crisis. They were among some of the last brands to stop sailing, the longest to refund on canceled cruises, and the slowest to cancel upcoming cruises despite clear evidence that there was no way they could sail....

 

In addition, they did not participate in the "Healthy Sail Panel" which both RCCL and NCL were part of. Why not? And they seem to be less forthcoming with certain information on COVID status and how passengers/crew who test positive are managed. Rolling out COVID testing has been another snafu.

 

There are times when it is a fair (not really good but fair) corporate strategy to be reactive rather than proactive. This does not strike me as one of those times. What's going on HAL? 

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I believe that if HAL is to survive they will have to become a little more forward looking.  Or perhaps a lot more forward looking.  They need to be where the puck is going, not where it is now, or where it has been.

 

And gain substantially more focus on defining their target market and making any changes necessary to attract that market.....for longer than six months at a time.

 

Who knows, post covid the market may have changed from what it was two years ago.

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if you study the company reports,{ ccl] the huge increase in fares and future booking  deposits  are keeping these cruise ships afloat. keep a eye on the stock, and as long as it stays above 10.00 a share we should be allright. 

As for Holland America target market.. They are fully aware the current client age is dying off quickly, or too old to cruise.. how to convince carnival and princess supporters to age into Holland america..

 

Edited by steve 48
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5 hours ago, SJSULIBRARIAN said:

 

 

HAL is sailing at between 70% to 80% in the US. I don't know what their break even point is. I think the other cruise lines are doing about the same capacity wise; only time will tell if the cruise lines can survive. I hope they all do.

Are you sure about that? When numbers are shared by those on board it seems far less than that.  Its not just Hal, its seems to be other cruise lines as well.

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6 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Are you sure about that? When numbers are shared by those on board it seems far less than that.  Its not just Hal, its seems to be other cruise lines as well.

B-i-L and S-i-L were just on Crystal....they were at 50% on their sailing.

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Every one ages  .

 

imo ,it is hard to be sure that test results would be available   with in a 48 hour period .since there could be snafus   being  that people are involved . who report the tests This can place undue stress & pressure on older cruisers ;which HAL caters   to for many years Thus ,,bringing the testing down to 48 hours before boarding is imo extremely tight timing   .So why is it so important to make it 48 hours vs the 72 hour period ? 

 

 Hal also needs to know that even though a person tests negative ,between that test & the physical boarding process ,a person could be covid positive  unfortunately . This is  why we see the need to test at the port  plus the  temperature checks 

 

 Another issue with HAL or any other cruise line is will they refund complete cruise fares if a person does test positive before boarding ? 

 

 These questions & perhaps more logical questions must be answered by HAL &  the other cruise lines & made policy 'because other wise the general public will not feel comfortable in booking these much higher costs for vacations  .JMHO 

 

 Yes there are many alternative vacations ,all inclusive comes to mind ,a condo or home that rents at the beach , a driving trip to say National  & State parks   . & what do the many millions who have had covid with  better immunity than any one who had been vaccinated do about cruising ? 

 

 Perhaps more people answering this thread should look further than their own personal needs or wants & see the broader numbers of travelers   & their needs & wants

 

 Imo ,HAL & every public cruise line needs to step up to the plate with flexible  guidelines   for their customers ,especially  their senior aged customer bases 

 

 I  personally do not wish harm come to any one or business  that respects peoples rights & needs . Theses cruise corporations are American based & the need to Act in a fair & unbiased manner 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, steve 48 said:

if you study the company reports,{ ccl] the huge increase in fares and future booking  deposits  are keeping these cruise ships afloat. keep a eye on the stock, and as long as it stays above 10.00 a share we should be allright. 

As for Holland America target market.. They are fully aware the current client age is dying off quickly, or too old to cruise.. how to convince carnival and princess supporters to age into Holland america..

 


I think it is more than age that separates HAL from Carnival cruisers - a whole different mindset. I don’t know that they’ll ever sail on HAL.

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HAL wlll survive by improving communication.  There are so many uncertainties including "Will the ship sail?"  "Do I need a passport?"  "Exactly when do I need to take the Covid test?"  What if I don't get the results back in time?"  "Will I get a refund if I test Positive?"  Rumors of cancelled port stops but HAL is still selling cruises for ports that say they don't want ships.   HAL employees can't even answer these questions correctly as evidenced by the two cases of people not being able to board the ship for their planned cruises this week.  Online response time is terrible, people are unsure of the "perks" they signed up for because they do not appear on their booking. HAL really needs to improve their communication in all areas of the business.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

 

 Another issue with HAL or any other cruise line is will they refund complete cruise fares if a person does test positive before boarding ? 

 

According to HAL’s Covid Protection Plan, for any cruise booked this year and sailing by April of 2022, HAL will provide FCC for anyone testing positive within 30 days of the cruise or during the cruise itself. It is not a cash refund, but you do get reimbursement.

 

Also, HAL is providing medical and quarantine assistance for people who test positive which includes lodging, meals and air line change fees if necessary. That certainly relieves some of the financial burden of a positive test, but the extended time away from home is still a risk for those who have jobs and/or family obligations.

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42 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Are you sure about that? When numbers are shared by those on board it seems far less than that.  Its not just Hal, its seems to be other cruise lines as well.

 

I agree. I don't know about HAL numbers but I know Celebrity has been sailing at 50% or less. I believe they are more or less trying to follow the CDC guidelines (despite not being "required" to do so) in this. Although I have heard that some brands are exceeding 50%.

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I'm supposed to sail from Amsterdam in December.  First I have to find a test site in Nashville.  Not easy because most either require you to have a doctor's referral or be symptomatic.  Then they have to assure me they can send a negative test result to me within the required window before my flight.  When I get to Amsterdam where I'm spending 3 days, I have to find a test sight that's open on the weekend and can assure me they can send a negative test result to me within the required window before my cruise.  Coming home Tauck cruise line is offering tests onboard (for a fee) which I'll take in order to fly home from Brussels.  

 

For those of you who live in big cities with low Covid rates, that's great.  For those of us who don't, it's a very stressful situation.  In Nashville we can't even buy the home tests that are accepted.  They're all sold out.  The few test sites I found where I can pay for a test don't have any appts. left.  They're booked solid.  My cardiologist told me to avoid stress and this whole situation is stressing me out.  I'm traveling by myself and am afraid of being stranded in a foreign country.

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