iancal Posted December 11, 2021 #26 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) At the moment...definitely yes. There is a shortage of ships, a shortage of containers, and a shortage of docking space as a result of the covid pandemic. To the point where some bulk carriers have been modified in the near term for container useage. There is no such shortage of space on cruise ships at the moment. More demand than supply means higher shipping fees, greater (and higher) demurrage fees,etc. No idea long term. Or long term post covid. Edited December 11, 2021 by iancal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted December 11, 2021 #27 Share Posted December 11, 2021 3 hours ago, rkacruiser said: I don't recall the sources where I have read this, but they were credible sources. For some businesses, a candidate for a job may be preferred if they have a liberal arts education because of the breadth of knowledge they have and the experiences that are associated with a liberal arts degree. Of course a bank looking to hire a personal loan counselor would prefer someone with good basic math and communications skills (meaning an AB) but you can be fairly sure the salary would not match that given an apprentice carpenter, plumber or electrician. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPT Trips Posted December 12, 2021 #28 Share Posted December 12, 2021 On 12/10/2021 at 10:43 AM, chengkp75 said: And which we could not find people to produce those items anyway. The average age of a shipyard worker in the US is 65, and other manufacturing jobs are similarly aging out. Here’s an interesting related article. https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2021/12/06/bath-iron-works-plays-catch-up-on-ship-delivery-after-years-of-upheaval/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted December 12, 2021 #29 Share Posted December 12, 2021 9 hours ago, CPT Trips said: Here’s an interesting related article. https://www.defensenews.com/breaking-news/2021/12/06/bath-iron-works-plays-catch-up-on-ship-delivery-after-years-of-upheaval/ BIW has always been a leader in progressive training and hiring, having apprenticeships going back over 20 years. But, as the article notes, these measures have somewhat backfired on them, and led to a situation that could never happen in commercial shipbuilding, that one ship would be 3 years behind schedule. This shows the difference between governmental shipbuilding and commercial shipbuilding, where government ships can take far longer to build than commercial ships, even on the planned timeline, so neither the customer nor the yard have incentives to rush things along. Most naval shipyards do not work third shift, most have reduces second shift, while commercial yards have to pack 2nd shifts and offer 3rd shifts if required to meet a commercial timeline. Commercial ships get about 10-14 days in a shipyard every 2.5 years, while the navy will take a ship out of service for 18 months at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob brown Posted December 23, 2021 #30 Share Posted December 23, 2021 What is interesting to me, is that MSC has gone "all-in" in running a major cruise line, while other "heritage lines" like Cunard, P&O, Holland America, Matson, etc., have long separated or ended their passenger operations. I believe NYK, although selling off Crystal to Genting, still operates one cruise ship (Asuka?), and not sure of the status of Hapag-Lloyd's cruise ships.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted December 23, 2021 #31 Share Posted December 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, bob brown said: …"heritage lines" like Cunard, P&O, Holland America, Matson, etc., have long separated or ended their passenger operations. … Don’t you mean freight, rather than passenger operations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare mom says Posted December 24, 2021 #32 Share Posted December 24, 2021 6 hours ago, CruiseGeekGuy said: Most freighter cruises have cancelled passenger traffic. Cite your source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob brown Posted December 24, 2021 #33 Share Posted December 24, 2021 20 hours ago, navybankerteacher said: Don’t you mean freight, rather than passenger operations? Either, or... Cunard and HAL ended their freight services, Matson ended their passenger operations, P&O had separated into companies under different ownership, although P&O freight still ran ferries for a while, IIRC.NYK created Crystal, than sold it to Genting. They retained one of the Crystal ships and operated it under their own name. Hapag LLoyd, I'm not sure if they divested their passenger ships, or not...Carnival Corp. eventually acquired Cunard, HAL, and P&O, including its sub, Princess. Chandris was another freight line that sold off its passenger side (Celebrity), to Royal Caribbean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi13 Posted December 24, 2021 #34 Share Posted December 24, 2021 3 hours ago, bob brown said: Either, or... Cunard and HAL ended their freight services, Matson ended their passenger operations, P&O had separated into companies under different ownership, although P&O freight still ran ferries for a while, P&O purchased a number of other shipping companies and initially re-organised in the early 1970's into "Divisions", grouping types of ships together - General Cargo, Bulk Shipping, P&O Cruises & P&O Ferries. The ships from the purchased companies were renamed and changed into P&O livery. Note - each Division had a different livery. All of the above mentioned Divisions were wholly owned by the P&O Group. In addition they had joint ventures - reefers (Lauriten/Penninsula Reefers), containers (OCL, which P&O bought outright in the 1980's), chemicals (Panocean-Anco). The Passenger Ships, prior to Spirit of London, Island/Pacifc Princess all carried freight, mail and passengers. SS Oriana had 5 holds, with some of them also having tween decks. She also had cranes fwd and aft. As a cadet in 1977, I recall overseeing the loading of cargo in Southampton and discharging it in Sydney. In 2000, the P&O Board created P&O Cruises as a separate, but wholly owned company. Not sure how widely the share were distributed, but they were available to employees. This action was taken to ensure P&O Cruises had access to the capital funds required for building the "Grand" class ships, as previously they had to compete with the other Divisions for capital to build new ships. In 2003, P&O Cruises had an agreement to merge with RCCL, but at the last minute, Carnival came in with a better offer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted December 24, 2021 #35 Share Posted December 24, 2021 On 12/23/2021 at 10:17 AM, bob brown said: What is interesting to me, is that MSC has gone "all-in" in running a major cruise line, while other "heritage lines" like Cunard, P&O, Holland America, Matson, etc., have long separated or ended their passenger operations. I believe NYK, although selling off Crystal to Genting, still operates one cruise ship (Asuka?), and not sure of the status of Hapag-Lloyd's cruise ships.... MSC has a somewhat different business model. Unlike the other major cruise lines (RCI, NCLH, CCL) MSC has remained a privately held company (primarily owned by a single Italian family). Privately held companies are often free to pursue longer term strategies without the need to sway a large board and stockholders. MSC is a fabulously successful company and the 2nd largest Container Ship company in the world with over 560 vessels! It does seem like the Aponte family (the major owner) is very committed to the cruise industry as they continue to build more ships and develop a luxury line offshoot (which is currently building 4 smaller vessels). As I mentioned in another post, MSC has a big advantage over the other cruise corporations because of the positive cash flow derived from their Container division. As to what you refer to as the "heritage lines" I find it interesting that nearly all were gobbled-up by a few major cruise corporations or simply disappeared. Cunard has an amazing history but is now just one of many CCL cruise lines as are the various divisions of P&O. Perhaps divesting played a part in the inability of those lines to continue as profitable independent cruise lines. Holland America also has a long and fascinating history which many fans (and Corporate) try to keep alive. I find it interesting that CCL decided to reorganize their internal operations and name one major group the "Holland America Group" thus forging a new page in HAL's history. They certainly would have been justified (in terms of revenue and size) naming that group the "Princess Group" but chose differently (and many would say wisely). Also interesting that the leader of the Holland America Group comes from Princess Cruises. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted December 24, 2021 #36 Share Posted December 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Hlitner said: Also interesting that the leader of the Holland America Group comes from Princess Cruises. Is this Jan Schwarz? I wonder if Stein Kruse has retired. If not, what is his role in Carnival Corporation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted December 24, 2021 #37 Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, rkacruiser said: Is this Jan Schwarz? Yes...Jan Swartz 1 hour ago, rkacruiser said: I wonder if Stein Kruse has retired. If not, what is his role in Carnival Corporation? A bit over a year ago he got "kicked upstairs" to a position as "senior advisor" to Micky Arison and Arnold Donald. https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23970-stein-kruse-gets-new-role-as-senior-advisor-to-erarnold-donald.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted December 26, 2021 #38 Share Posted December 26, 2021 On 12/24/2021 at 4:49 PM, njhorseman said: A bit over a year ago he got "kicked upstairs" to a position as "senior advisor" to Micky Arison and Arnold Donald. Thanks. I wonder what the job description for that position might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted December 27, 2021 #39 Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 hour ago, rkacruiser said: Thanks. I wonder what the job description for that position might be? This type of move is often a short term pre-retirement slot...where the company says "Thanks for your years of service and we'll call you when we want your opinion about something." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted December 27, 2021 #40 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Just now, njhorseman said: This type of move is often a short term pre-retirement slot...where the company says "Thanks for your years of service and we'll call you when we want your opinion about something." How much of a retainer/salary would be part of such an agreement, I wonder. (Not that this gentleman needs such additional income, I am sure.) I understand why a Company may choose to do this. But, after KIrk Lanterman entered into his well earned retirement, Mr. Kruse was an excellent choice to replace Mr. Lanterman and helped to develop the HAL of today. It's unfortunate, in my humble opinion, but I think an experienced opinion, the recent executives chosen to replace Mr. Kruse (and other senior executives who have retired or left the Company) have not had the experience nor the understanding of the guest experience that this member of the Mariner Society expect. (I have not sailed on HAL since the new President Gus has been in charge. I exclude him from my above comments.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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