P&O Cancellation Terms

[Harry Peterson]

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

It actually says that passengers with increased risk of severe illness should avoid cruising.

So it is not as clear as you make out.

"It is especially important that travelers who are at an increased risk of severe illness from COVID-19 avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide, regardless of vaccination status,” the agency said."

Things have moved on since then.

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship

 

Key Information for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• Avoid cruise travel, regardless of vaccination status.
• Even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants.
• The virus that causes COVID-19 spreads easily between people in close quarters on board ships, and the chance of getting COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high, even if you are fully vaccinated and have received a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose.
• Outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• If you travel on a cruise ship, make sure you are fully vaccinated before travel and get a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose if you are eligible.
• People who go on a cruise should get tested 1–3 days before their trip and 3–5 days after their trip, regardless of vaccination status or symptoms.
• Along with testing, passengers who are not fully vaccinated should self-quarantine for a full 5 days after cruise travel.  
• People on cruise ships should wear a mask to keep their nose and mouth covered when in shared spaces. While CDC is exercising its enforcement discretion under CDC’s Mask Order to not require that persons wear a mask under certain circumstances on board foreign-flagged cruise ships subject to the Temporary Extension & Modification of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO), including onboard cruise ships choosing to follow the requirements of the CSO on a voluntary basis, individual cruise lines may require travelers (passengers and crew) to wear masks on board the ship.

[wowzz]

58 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Things have moved on since then.

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship

 

Key Information for Cruise Ship Travelers

 

• Avoid cruise travel, regardless of vaccination status.
• Even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants.
• The virus that causes COVID-19 spreads easily between people in close quarters on board ships, and the chance of getting COVID-19 on cruise ships is very high, even if you are fully vaccinated and have received a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose.
• Outbreaks of COVID-19 have been reported on cruise ships.
• If you travel on a cruise ship, make sure you are fully vaccinated before travel and get a COVID-19 vaccine booster dose if you are eligible.
• People who go on a cruise should get tested 1–3 days before their trip and 3–5 days after their trip, regardless of vaccination status or symptoms.
• Along with testing, passengers who are not fully vaccinated should self-quarantine for a full 5 days after cruise travel.  
• People on cruise ships should wear a mask to keep their nose and mouth covered when in shared spaces. While CDC is exercising its enforcement discretion under CDC’s Mask Order to not require that persons wear a mask under certain circumstances on board foreign-flagged cruise ships subject to the Temporary Extension & Modification of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO), including onboard cruise ships choosing to follow the requirements of the CSO on a voluntary basis, individual cruise lines may require travelers (passengers and crew) to wear masks on board the ship.

It strikes me that that most responsible cruise lines in the US are complying with all the guidelines,  with the exception of testing after arrival back in the US.

From a UK perspective,  all cruise lines comply with the guudelines, with regards to vaccinations,  mask wearing etc. 

The CDC do seem to have an agenda against the cruise industry in the US. 

  

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, wowzz said:

It strikes me that that most responsible cruise lines in the US are complying with all the guidelines,  with the exception of testing after arrival back in the US.

From a UK perspective,  all cruise lines comply with the guudelines, with regards to vaccinations,  mask wearing etc. 

The CDC do seem to have an agenda against the cruise industry in the US. 

  

Why on earth would it? Have you looked at the CDC website and seen just how wide the remit is?

 

To suggest that it has an agenda against the cruise industry is tantamount to suggesting that the NHS has an agenda against potentially unsafe situations in hospitals!

[wowzz]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Why on earth would it? Have you looked at the CDC website and seen just how wide the remit is?

 

To suggest that it has an agenda against the cruise industry is tantamount to suggesting that the NHS has an agenda against potentially unsafe situations in hospitals!

8n which case, why does the CDC not operate a similar colour coding system for hotels,  theme parks etc as it does for cruise ships? 

[Harry Peterson]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

8n which case, why does the CDC not operate a similar colour coding system for hotels,  theme parks etc as it does for cruise ships? 

Maybe because they’re not floating around in a confined space hundreds or thousands of miles away from proper medical support?

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Maybe because they’re not floating around in a confined space hundreds or thousands of miles away from proper medical support?

Harry, I understand that, but similarly,  why are they not advising against visiting theme parks,  where the potential for Omnicron transmission is considerably greater ?

[Interestedcruisefan]

43 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Harry, I understand that, but similarly,  why are they not advising against visiting theme parks,  where the potential for Omnicron transmission is considerably greater ?

That message from the trade Industry is pure spin and to be taken with a huge pinch of salt

 

As you would expect from any trade industry 

 

Trade industries in every sector impacted by Covid have to put their own spin on why what they are doing is safe

 

The cruise lines are doing all they possibly can to avoid knowing how many positive cases they have on board

 

The very fact that the Florida cruises are not testing passengers before they leave the boat when it returns to Florida means they have absolutely NO IDEA how many cases they have on board

 

Even the RCL cruise that had to cancel halfway and just head back to Fort Lauderdale slowly after finding 50 crew positive simply let all the passengers off at the end of the cruise

 

I was personally staggered to find out the US cruise ships DONT test their passengers before they release them back into the US at the end of the cruise

 

Having just done tours of the Caribbean etc. They've done so well to avoid having to mandatory test everyone at the end

 

The particular RCK cruise that got the 50 positive crew early on and returned home I remember had well over 3,000 passengers and crew on board 

 

Would actually have been fascinating to know how many positives they actually had by the time the cruise ended if they had 50 positive crew discovered after just 3 days

 

But they can't get everybody off quick enough without a test let's be honest

 

The only passengers who actually got tested on board are the ones who choose to come forward to get a test whilst on the ship. A tiny minority do that. 

 

So the trade Industry quite  simply cannot put forward any reliable numbers of Covid at all. Instead they put forward numbers that don't tell anywhere near the whole story but spin it in their favour. If they didn't they would be failing at their job

 

Thats what trade industries in all sectors do

 

It's their role to spin for their industries 

 

Which is why you have to take anything any of them say with a huge pinch of salt

 

It's also IMO one of the reasons so many naive passengers are getting on cruise ships unaware of the risks they face and then aghast when they face problems

 

Most (not all) who are still cruising are happy to just reassure themselves with spin and dont dig deep etc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

It appears Ventura might be departing for the Caribbean on Monday for a 35 nighter? First call Madeira, what happens to those testing positive? The next port is Barbados followed by nine more islands and then back to the UK via the Azores.

Looks like this cruise has now been closed for bookings.  Showing as sold out. 

[zap99]

10 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Looks like this cruise has now been closed for bookings.  Showing as sold out. 

I had a look yesterday. Not there to buy. Some good deals for Britannia fly cruises.🤔

[kalos]

If everything in life was so simple and black and white .

Many people due to health conditions would be mad to step onboard a cruise ship

at this given time but many could/can  and would without any severe illness .

We are still in unchartered situation as yet, still a lot to learn ,there is no point telling 

others what is wrong or right ,just do what feels safe to you regarding the ships .

 

[jeanlyon]

Agree with all of you.  From our point of view, it's definitely the fear of being debarked somewhere and forced to fly home.  Not at all sure of what travel insurance covers and at our age, the insurance is pretty expensive.  Happy to pay it as long as it isn't wasted if we are sent home after a few days.

 

Holidays in the UK are far more attractive at the minute and we have 3 booked already.  OK, so we won't get the weather, but others things to do.  would even consider a car trip to France or Spain.  At least we should be able to drive home and nobody will be testing us every 2 minutes, only when we got home.

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

Agree with all of you.  From our point of view, it's definitely the fear of being debarked somewhere and forced to fly home.  Not at all sure of what travel insurance covers and at our age, the insurance is pretty expensive.  Happy to pay it as long as it isn't wasted if we are sent home after a few days.

 

Holidays in the UK are far more attractive at the minute and we have 3 booked already.  OK, so we won't get the weather, but others things to do.  would even consider a car trip to France or Spain.  At least we should be able to drive home and nobody will be testing us every 2 minutes, only when we got home.

France wont allow us to go there on hols at the moment 

[Dgtrainer99]

It’s our logic, also. The level of uncertainty is just too high at present. Hence given the chance to amend our booking, we will.

[cruising.mark.uk]

43 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

That's what's needed I think

 

A pause

 

Also they talk about work stress for NHS staff

 

Imagine how tough a job it must be managing cruises right now?

 

Crisis and logistical nightmares to manage by the hour on ships with barely enough passengers to justify sailing in the first place and flights to the cruises with barely enough passengers on to justify flying as well?

 

Can anybody attempting to manage all this actually sleep at night wondering what they will be waking up to next day?

Only the cruise lines will be able to do the maths on whether a 'pause' is economically / commercially viable.  No doubt they are calculating on a daily basis whether the revenues from those who continue to cruise outweigh the logistical and presentational issues and the wide-ranging costs that would result from a pause.  They may decide that the revenues are sufficient to make the risk manageable.  CDC is monitoring 90-odd ships in US waters.  Even at 50%, that suggests well over 100000 pax per week still willing to cruise.  Plus perhaps another 25k from the UK and around the Canaries, Med, Gulf etc.  I sense that one or more of the big players may not survive another pause, so the lines may wish to continue operating unless it becomes impossible to do so.

 

And, I don't think the UK government could implement a pause (even if it wished to do so, which would seem counter to the current trend towards reducing mandates).  If I recall from 2020 / 21, when it put travel bans in place, it did so by country, not by type of travel.  So, unless it puts the US, Caribbean, Spain, Italy, Med, UAE etc on a 'red list' (or those countries put UK passengers on a red list), I don't think it could stop UK cruisers travelling.  And, I'm not even sure its mandates would apply to non-UK cruise lines (e.g. CCL) anyway.  It might be possible to implement a pause on ex-UK cruises, but why would it do that?  I haven't seen definitive figures for confirmed infection rates from Iona, Ventura, Fred's ships etc over the last few weeks, but anecdotal evidence suggests the figures are very low (and probably proportionately lower than the general UK population).  So why would the government choose to curtail cruising when it is not currently curtailing many potentially far more risky activities? 

[Interestedcruisefan]

12 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Only the cruise lines will be able to do the maths on whether a 'pause' is economically / commercially viable.  No doubt they are calculating on a daily basis whether the revenues from those who continue to cruise outweigh the logistical and presentational issues and the wide-ranging costs that would result from a pause.  They may decide that the revenues are sufficient to make the risk manageable.  CDC is monitoring 90-odd ships in US waters.  Even at 50%, that suggests well over 100000 pax per week still willing to cruise.  Plus perhaps another 25k from the UK and around the Canaries, Med, Gulf etc.  I sense that one or more of the big players may not survive another pause, so the lines may wish to continue operating unless it becomes impossible to do so.

 

And, I don't think the UK government could implement a pause (even if it wished to do so, which would seem counter to the current trend towards reducing mandates).  If I recall from 2020 / 21, when it put travel bans in place, it did so by country, not by type of travel.  So, unless it puts the US, Caribbean, Spain, Italy, Med, UAE etc on a 'red list' (or those countries put UK passengers on a red list), I don't think it could stop UK cruisers travelling.  And, I'm not even sure its mandates would apply to non-UK cruise lines (e.g. CCL) anyway.  It might be possible to implement a pause on ex-UK cruises, but why would it do that?  I haven't seen definitive figures for confirmed infection rates from Iona, Ventura, Fred's ships etc over the last few weeks, but anecdotal evidence suggests the figures are very low (and probably proportionately lower than the general UK population).  So why would the government choose to curtail cruising when it is not currently curtailing many potentially far more risky activities? 

Nice post 

 

Getting harder by the day though  for cruise lines to predict or calculate anything

 

It's not just working out minimum numbers needed to fly or cruise but all the costs, refunds, fcc etc when a cruise has to depart from plans. Also the costs and logistics of dealing with crew sickness etc must be huge 

 

Awful situation to have to manage. Dont envy any of the cruise lines in this. I think their first choice would be pause with Govt financial support to survive

 

But like you say that may not happen 

 

It's very similar to where UK pubs and restaurants and cafes are right now. Not financially viable as things are for most

 

Many would much prefer lockdown,  grants, furlough than operating in these conditions 

 

Which Govt really want to avoid

 

It's that kind of lockdown that ends all holidays

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[bee-ess]

It is obvious from reading this forum that a lot of people who are not cruising at the moment are not doing so because of the current quarantine rules, namely being taken ashore to quarantine hotels. I cannot understand why various countries would welcome this arrangement, unless it is some sort of moneymaking exercise. I'm sure that many would take a chance on catching Covid if they had the security of knowing they could isolate on the ship, unless of course they had serious illness. The odds of catching covid on the ship are low and everyone will have been vaccinated, so that reduces the chances further.

Surely the cruise lines should be trying to negotiate with the countries involved to get agreement to quarantine on the ship if that is even possible.

[Host Sharon]

This post became way off topic and once again violated Cruise Critic's Covid discussion guidelines.