What type of "Service Dog" is this?

[not-enough-cruising]

27 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

Was wrong about the ostrich on the plane.   It was a Peacock!   There was also a snake,  tortoise, a marmoset, and ....  the problem is where do you draw the line.  What about animals left in the cabin when an attendant comes in to clean, or when alone, starts to make noise.  This is a slippery slope.

And a miniature horse 

[Mabbiez]

Here is a pic of Mila with her pretty vest on!

 

 

[TheMastodon]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:27 PM, FireEMT978 said:

Yeah, I know I will get people mad. Don't Care! What type of service dog is this? During our past week on the Oasis, we had a couple with a Yorkie "Service dog", with the fake "Credentials". How do I know this, you ask. Well, the fact that this dog was in a stroller, being hand fed dinner in the main dining room by both owners. Also, at all other venues, the dog was being held by different people, at different times, while the owners were just having a good time. I do know how siezure dogs, and diabetic dogs, etc.... are trained to be with their handler. I have many friends that REQUIRE their service dogs to assist them. This, is a disgrace to people that have true service dogs. These people should be barred, and have shame in what they are doing. So sad! Yes, I do have pictures of them. I will be sending them to RCI. I could post them. But, I won't, unless I feel the need.

 

Instead of a service dog I have bottles of Bourbon.  It helps with my stress & anxiety. I don’t understand why the police officer couldn’t understand this!

[TheMastodon]

16 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Instead of a service dog I have bottles of Bourbon.  It helps with my stress & anxiety. I don’t understand why the police officer couldn’t understand this!

sorry mods this has nothing to do with cruising! I will bow down before the ones I serve!

[MommaBear55]

3 hours ago, asalligo said:

Where does this hate for dogs come from? Never trust anyone who does not love a dog. I would be inconvenienced in no way by a dog anywhere on the ship. 

 

Love dogs, just cannot be around them due to a severe allergy. I don't mind changing my seat for those with a true service dog, but I don't understand why I should accommodate for those who aren't.

[Ashland]

5 hours ago, little britain said:

You’ve obviously never been in restaurants in Europe where it is common practice and perfectly acceptable to have your dog with you. 

Yes I certainly have....but it's usually in a outside cafe. This has no concern for me at all. It's the people too cheap that bring "Fluffy" on a cruise and to the dining room trying to pretend that it's a service dog. 

 

I'm also not happy when I go to my grocery store for food shopping and see yelping pets being pushed in those food carts that I or some unsuspecting shopper will use next time. Pets should not be allowed !!! 

[Ashland]

58 minutes ago, Mabbiez said:

Here is a pic of Mila with her pretty vest on!

 

 

Your picture portrays a real working service dog. Those that are being taken on cruises, eating in the dining room, being held & petted by other passengers and pushed around in strollers and left in cabins are not. The cruise line needs to take a stand on these abusers of the system !!!

[DerekB]

I see some calling for cruise lines to take a stand against fake service animals. The problem is that it is insanely difficult (and risky) to do so. Although I don't have a background in the cruise industry - I once served as the Air Carrier Access Act compliance officer for a major airline. Issues like this were so touchy (and expensive if handled incorrectly) that only 2 people for the entire airline had permission to deny boarding to a customer on the basis of a disability (including a service animal). 

 

Over the phone the customer is going to paint a rosey picture of a perfectly behaved & trained service animal. They will do the same during check-in. It isn't until the plane takes off (or ship sets sail) that they let down the sharade. By then there is not much you can do about it. 

[DeputyDawg46]

1 hour ago, njkruzer said:

Was wrong about the ostrich on the plane.   It was a Peacock!   There was also a snake,  tortoise, a marmoset, and ....  the problem is where do you draw the line.  What about animals left in the cabin when an attendant comes in to clean, or when alone, starts to make noise.  This is a slippery slope.

So where do these  people put these animals when they go to the bathroom?  Could get kind of crowded in there with a peacock!!

[Merion_Mom]

15 minutes ago, DerekB said:

I see some calling for cruise lines to take a stand against fake service animals. The problem is that it is insanely difficult (and risky) to do so. Although I don't have a background in the cruise industry - I once served as the Air Carrier Access Act compliance officer for a major airline. Issues like this were so touchy (and expensive if handled incorrectly) that only 2 people for the entire airline had permission to deny boarding to a customer on the basis of a disability (including a service animal). 

 

Over the phone the customer is going to paint a rosey picture of a perfectly behaved & trained service animal. They will do the same during check-in. It isn't until the plane takes off (or ship sets sail) that they let down the sharade. By then there is not much you can do about it. 

 

You can bar them from travelling with you again.  RC did this with a  certain person, but ONLY one on ship - so he just switched to another ship, where  he continues to bring his fake service dog.

[reallyitsmema]

14 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

You can bar them from travelling with you again.  RC did this with a  certain person, but ONLY one on ship - so he just switched to another ship, where  he continues to bring his fake service dog.

 

Tommy?

[DerekB]

20 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

You can bar them from travelling with you again.  RC did this with a  certain person, but ONLY one on ship - so he just switched to another ship, where  he continues to bring his fake service dog.

 

You can bar them true - but if you do that you better have your ducks (and dogs) in a row. If you can't prove your case, it's going to get very expensive, very fast. In these cases the burden of proof lies with the provider that denied access, not with the person who was denied. 

[njkruzer]

I guess my point is that Royal made rules but doesn't want to, or can't figure out how to, enforce the rules.  By not doing so they created the problem as it currently exists.

[DerekB]

19 minutes ago, njkruzer said:

I guess my point is that Royal made rules but doesn't want to, or can't figure out how to, enforce the rules.  By not doing so they created the problem as it currently exists.

 

I don't put the blame on Royal. Their hands are quite tied. Without the rule it is a zoo. With the rule you have at least reduced the number of fake service animals by removing those who are too afraid to risk it. The ones that remain are the ones that know the system and they are going to be difficult to get rid of no matter what you do.

 

The blame falls squarely on the people who misrepresent their pets as service animals. They make life for those with real service animals more difficult and inconvenience other passengers all at the same time. They are the jerks. 

 

At the airline we had passengers that filed DOT ACAA complaints on us every single flight they took. They were (mostly) false complaints, but were insanely difficult to prove from our side. To get them to go away the airline's legal department would offer free flights, which they would accept (much cheaper than court or a fine). They would then file complaints for things that (didn't happen) on those free flights. Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

The only time we were able to succesfully challenge one was a guy who had filed dozens of complaints. His last complaint was that we 1. took too long to transport him (in a wheelchair) from the aircraft to baggage claim. 2. that we abandoned him in baggage claim and 3. he was injured after trying to get his bag on his own.

 

After reviewing the 911 call that was made it was without a doubt proveable that he had to be one of the first passengers off the plane (we have records of when the plane arrived at the gate and when the 911 call was made). We contacted other passengers who testified that he ordered the wheelchair attendant to leave him alone & that he threw himself on the ground after he was left alone.  That was the only time we were confident we would win in court. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by DerekB
typo

[A&L_Ont]

4 hours ago, asalligo said:

Where does this hate for dogs come from?

It isn’t hate for dogs, it’s those that scam the system. 
 

As or your question above, this is a screenshot of the newest CC membership.…

 

 

 

4 hours ago, asalligo said:

Never trust anyone who does not love a dog.

 

And I’ll follow that up with, don’t trust all dog lovers.  They are not all the same.

 

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, DerekB said:

 

I don't put the blame on Royal. Their hands are quite tied. Without the rule it is a zoo. With the rule you have at least reduced the number of fake service animals by removing those who are too afraid to risk it. The ones that remain are the ones that know the system and they are going to be difficult to get rid of no matter what you do.

 

The blame falls squarely on the people who misrepresent their pets as service animals. They make life for those were real service animals more difficult and inconvenience other passengers all at the same time. They are the jerks. 

 

At the airline we had passengers that filed DOT ACAA complaints on us every single flight they took. They were (mostly) false complaints, but were insanely difficult to prove from our side. To get them to go away the airline's legal department would offer free flights, which they would accept (much cheaper than court or a fine). They would then file complaints for things that (didn't happen) on those free flights. Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

The only time we were able to succesfully challenge one was a guy who had filed dozens of complaints. His last complaint was that we 1. took too long to transport him (in a wheelchair) from the aircraft to baggage claim. 2. that we abandoned him in baggage claim and 3. he was injured after trying to get his bag on his own.

 

After reviewing the 911 call that was made it was without a doubt proveable that he had to be one of the first passengers off the plane (we have records of when the plane arrived at the gate and when the 911 call was made). We contacted other passengers who testified that he ordered the wheelchair attendant to leave him alone & that he threw himself on the ground after he was left alone.  That was the only time we were confident we would win in court. 

This is a pervasive problem with ADA claims in general. And in some places like California even if the ADA claim is rejected by the court the plaintiff can still assert an Unruh civil rights claim under state law. It is unfortunate that some people abuse the system.

[Pratique]

5 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

It isn’t hate for dogs, it’s those that scam the system.

It is also true that some people have a genuine fear of dogs, and that in rare circumstances an unrestrained dog can cause injury or property damage. I do find it somewhat paradoxical that if a passenger on an airplane has a peanut allergy, no peanuts are permitted (even if you brought your own), but if someone has a dog allergy, the dog must still be allowed in the cabin. So it becomes difficult to balance everyone's interests when the law favors the right of people with genuine needs to have a service animal, which, no matter how well trained, is still an animal capable of doing harm to others. I don't have the answer to how to fix this issue of people scamming the system.

[A&L_Ont]

2 hours ago, Mabbiez said:

Here is a pic of Mila with her pretty vest on!

 

 

Give that pup a chin rub for me.  She works hard and deserves it. 

[A&L_Ont]

6 minutes ago, Pratique said:

It is also true that some people have a genuine fear of dogs, and that in rare circumstances an unrestrained dog can cause injury or property damage.

 

Very true.  One of our old neighbours had a great fear of dogs.  I was once bit on the face by a dog, with superficial injuries.  I knew the dog that bit me as well. I do not have a fear of dogs, but always ask before I reach out to a dog.

 

6 minutes ago, Pratique said:

I do find it somewhat paradoxical that if a passenger on an airplane has a peanut allergy, no peanuts are permitted (even if you brought your own), but if someone has a dog allergy, the dog must still be allowed in the cabin.

 

I hear you on this. 

 

6 minutes ago, Pratique said:

So it becomes difficult to balance everyone's interests when the law favors the right of people with genuine needs to have a service animal, which, no matter how well trained, is still an animal capable of doing harm to others. I don't have the answer to how to fix this issue of people scamming the system.

 

I think your comment above, that I put in bold, is the main point/complaint that people are voicing here.  There is no easy answer.  People on this thread with actual service animals have stated that the "scammers" are an issue to them as well.  Who knows what the answer is.

 

Perhaps the people on this thread with service animals have some suggestions on how this could be accomplished. Is it possible and is it even worth trying to accomplish in their opinion?

 

[DerekB]

18 minutes ago, Pratique said:

 I do find it somewhat paradoxical that if a passenger on an airplane has a peanut allergy, no peanuts are permitted (even if you brought your own), but if someone has a dog allergy, the dog must still be allowed in the cabin. 

This is not true and not mandated by the ACAA. Airlines must permit passengers with allergies to pre-board (so they can wipe down the area) - but are not required to offer peanut-free flights. Some airlines offer various other accomodations, but they are not required to. 

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, DerekB said:

This is not true and not mandated by the ACAA. Airlines must permit passengers with allergies to pre-board (so they can wipe down the area) - but are not required to offer peanut-free flights. Some airlines offer various other accomodations, but they are not required to. 

As a matter of airline policy it becomes true, depending on the airline. If the flight crew asks passengers to not consume peanuts, the passengers are obliged to follow crew instructions or risk prosecution under federal law for interfering (once the passenger decides to refuse the instructions and create a commotion). On top of that, the airlines want to avoid potential in flight medical emergencies caused by peanut allergies.

[Mabbiez]

6 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

 

 

Perhaps the people on this thread with service animals have some suggestions on how this could be accomplished. Is it possible and is it even worth trying to accomplish in their opinion?

 

So the one thing that could possibly prevent fake service dogs is if there was a real recognized certification. That being said, it's still something I have mixed feelings about. Many people who are disabled with a service dog do not have extra money to do things like pay for a registration fee as they are often on disability. I am someone who can still work with my disability so I would be able to pay. It's one of those things that I personally just do not have the answer for.

[DerekB]

1 minute ago, Pratique said:

As a matter of airline policy it becomes true, depending on the airline. If the flight crew asks passengers to not consume peanuts, the passengers are obliged to follow crew instructions or risk prosecution under federal law for interfering (once the passenger decides to refuse the instructions and create a commotion). On top of that, the airlines want to avoid potential in flight medical emergencies caused by peanut allergies.

 

Not a single US based airline has this as a policy: Source

[Pratique]

6 minutes ago, DerekB said:

 

Not a single US based airline has this as a policy: Source

Your source clearly states that several airlines have a policy to create a buffer zone. In any event, it is still at the discretion of the flight crew. What are you going to do, fight with the crew about it? I've been told not to consume peanuts by some of the airlines that do not have a policy.

[leisuretraveler223]

6 hours ago, asalligo said:

Where does this hate for dogs come from? Never trust anyone who does not love a dog. I would be inconvenienced in no way by a dog anywhere on the ship. 

 

 

A small minded approach.  How about my emotional support python? You don't mind if I bring him on board, do you?