Cough . Why are people still allowed in spice on getaway

[luckyinpa]

I didn't know about this issue but I do now. Soon as the doors to spice opened it was heavy ship fuel I'd rather cig smoke or perfume. I'm assuming breathing this in for hours is 100 percent safe and that's why people are back there. But then again maybe not? Or wear masks😁

Edited March 8, 2022 by luckyinpa

[MoCruiseFan]

What?  I've never heard of heavy diesel, is that a new hard rock band or something?

[shof515]

When i was on the getaway a few weeks ago, they was always a strong odor in the aft part of the ship

[ChiefMateJRK]

1 hour ago, luckyinpa said:

I'm assuming breathing this in for hours is 100 percent safe and that's why people are back there.

I'm guessing that you never worked on a farm, driving a diesel tractor for ten - twelve hour days.  It seems that people are fond of eating, so the farmers must push on.

 

(until those fancy new electric tractors show up 🤣)

[hallux]

2 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

What?  I've never heard of heavy diesel, is that a new hard rock band or something?

More commonly referred to as heavy fuel oil, it's the stuff that the engines run on.  There are actually a couple different types of this fuel - HSFO and LSFO (and maybe a 3rd ULSFO), related to the sulphur content of the fuel.  The ship will actually have both - LSFO or ULSFO for sailing within the port area and within a certain distance of shore, then HSFO for in open sea.

 

As for the original question - I wonder if this is related to the fitting of the exhaust scrubbers last year...

[MoCruiseFan]

2 hours ago, hallux said:

More commonly referred to as heavy fuel oil, it's the stuff that the engines run on.  There are actually a couple different types of this fuel - HSFO and LSFO (and maybe a 3rd ULSFO), related to the sulphur content of the fuel.  The ship will actually have both - LSFO or ULSFO for sailing within the port area and within a certain distance of shore, then HSFO for in open sea.

 

As for the original question - I wonder if this is related to the fitting of the exhaust scrubbers last year...

Why would there be fuel being stored in Spice H2)?

[hallux]

1 hour ago, MoCruiseFan said:

Why would there be fuel being stored in Spice H2)?

Not stored, but maybe something coming from the stacks.

 

Maybe @chengkp75 has some insight?

[EleventyBangBang]

6 hours ago, shof515 said:

When i was on the getaway a few weeks ago, they was always a strong odor in the aft part of the ship

 

I remember this from 2016.  The fumes, and enough vibration to knock bottles of water off the table.  My first, and last, aft balcony.  I assumed all ships were like this - is it really just the Getaway?

 

 

 

[ClevelandCruisin]

Maybe a ventilation problem. 

 

Kind of like our toilet wouldn't flush, and they had to open the vent somewhere on the outside to let it flush again.

[chengkp75]

On 3/8/2022 at 5:31 PM, hallux said:

More commonly referred to as heavy fuel oil, it's the stuff that the engines run on.  There are actually a couple different types of this fuel - HSFO and LSFO (and maybe a 3rd ULSFO), related to the sulphur content of the fuel.  The ship will actually have both - LSFO or ULSFO for sailing within the port area and within a certain distance of shore, then HSFO for in open sea.

 

As for the original question - I wonder if this is related to the fitting of the exhaust scrubbers last year...

Okay, let's clarify fuel types, for those interested.  People think that all fuel used in diesel engines is like the diesel fuel used in cars and trucks, its not.  Diesels can run on everything from crude oil to coal or flour dust.  There are two main types of fuel used in marine diesel engines (discounting LNG):  residual fuel, and diesel fuel.

 

Residual fuel is an end product of the refining process, in other words, when all the gasoline, kerosene, diesel, and lubricating oil that is possible to be removed from the crude oil is taken, what is left over is residual fuel oil.  This has the appearance and consistency of tar.  At present, it is marketed in two forms, IF380 and VLSFO.  IF380, also known as HSFO has a sulfur content of 3.5%, and can be burned only by ships equipped with scrubbers, but these ships can use this fuel at nearly all times.  VLSFO has a sulfur content of 0.5%, and can be burned by all ships around the world, when outside of special emissions zones.

 

Diesel fuel, which is similar to the #1 Diesel sold for vehicles, or #2 Diesel sold as home heating oil in the US, for ships must have a sulfur content of 0.1%, and is used by ships without scrubbers when in areas like the North American ECA (emission control area), which covers the entire North American continent out to 200 miles from shore.

 

So, if a ship has a scrubber, it can operate on HSFO at all times, but without a scrubber, it must have two fuels, diesel and VLSFO.

[chengkp75]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:33 PM, hallux said:

Not stored, but maybe something coming from the stacks.

 

Maybe @chengkp75 has some insight?

Without knowing if this was a constant thing, or on again, off again, I can only guess.  First off, it would have nothing to do with the scrubbers.  It may, however, be due to a following wind that stifles the exhaust flow away from the ship and down to the Spice area.  Residual fuel, in the bunker tanks, needs to be heated in order to pump it.  This heating, can, for some fuels delivered (there are wide variations in marine fuel, unlike gasoline, since it is an end product), result in quite a lot of vaporization of the remaining lighter hydrocarbons, resulting in fumes from the tank vents.  Again, without personally experiencing it, or a detailed description of the ship's environment, and times of problems, just guessing.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:33 PM, hallux said:

Not stored, but maybe something coming from the stacks.

 

Maybe @chengkp75 has some insight?

Then why did the OP say that there was fuel there as soon as she entered?

[Jersey42]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:27 PM, luckyinpa said:

I didn't know about this issue but I do now. Soon as the doors to spice opened it was heavy ship fuel I'd rather cig smoke or perfume. I'm assuming breathing this in for hours is 100 percent safe and that's why people are back there. But then again maybe not? Or wear masks😁

 

1 hour ago, MoCruiseFan said:

Then why did the OP say that there was fuel there as soon as she entered?

How do you interpret this post as saying "there was fuel (stored) there".  As with many quick posts, the grammar may be imperfect, but it sounds like they were probably talking about the odor.  Maybe I am not reading it correctly?  

[davencl]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:36 PM, EleventyBangBang said:

 

I remember this from 2016.  The fumes, and enough vibration to knock bottles of water off the table.  My first, and last, aft balcony.  I assumed all ships were like this - is it really just the Getaway?

 

 

 

On our trip on the Encore to Alaska last August the vibration in the MDR on the first couple of days was very annoying.  That convinced me an aft cabin would not be for me.   Smoothing sailing days would be great but not at full power in modestly rough seas.   Our cabin was in the middle with no noticeable vibration.   Regarding the topic at hand,  I actually like the smell of diesel....

[MoCruiseFan]

1 hour ago, Jersey42 said:

 

How do you interpret this post as saying "there was fuel (stored) there".  As with many quick posts, the grammar may be imperfect, but it sounds like they were probably talking about the odor.  Maybe I am not reading it correctly?  

"Soon as the doors to spice opened it was heavy ship fuel"  it did not say that they SMELLED fuel or there was an ODOR of fuel, they said it WAS fuel.  I was going by what was actually posted w/o reading anything into it.

[Mlake09]

We were on Getaway at the end of February and there was a definite problem

with the exhaust, especially in the aft. We had to move rooms in the middle of the night because we were unable to sleep and opening the door, and balcony slider, did not help. Spice H20 and the ropes course were also significantly impacted. During the captains Q and A we learned that the changes

made to the smoke stacks, apparently adding water to the exhaust, was causing the problem. The water was making the exhaust heavier, causing it to fall back down toward the ship instead of going up and away. The captain said they were planning to fix it but that didn’t help on our cruise. It was a significant problem and we’ve contacted NCL about it already.

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, Mlake09 said:

During the captains Q and A we learned that the changes

made to the smoke stacks, apparently adding water to the exhaust, was causing the problem. The water was making the exhaust heavier, causing it to fall back down toward the ship instead of going up and away. The captain said they were planning to fix it but that didn’t help on our cruise. It was a significant problem and we’ve contacted NCL about it already.

I'm pretty amazed that a Captain would admit to that in public.  The scrubber system sprays water into the exhaust to precipitate out the toxic emissions (sulfur and nitrous oxides).  The exhaust gas then passes through a demister, that removes all the water mist from the exhaust gas.  If wet exhaust is coming from the stack, this means the demister is damaged and not working properly.  And, since the water contains the emission particles that are desired to be removed from the exhaust, this means the scrubber is not performing as required, and the ship is not meeting environmental regulations.  The ship should, when a scrubber breaks down, switch to another engine, or have compliant fuel (lower sulfur content) and not operate the scrubber.  This is bad, and could lead to significant fines, as this is one of the problems Carnival was cited for in their probation violations.

[Mlake09]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm pretty amazed that a Captain would admit to that in public.  The scrubber system sprays water into the exhaust to precipitate out the toxic emissions (sulfur and nitrous oxides).  The exhaust gas then passes through a demister, that removes all the water mist from the exhaust gas.  If wet exhaust is coming from the stack, this means the demister is damaged and not working properly.  And, since the water contains the emission particles that are desired to be removed from the exhaust, this means the scrubber is not performing as required, and the ship is not meeting environmental regulations.  The ship should, when a scrubber breaks down, switch to another engine, or have compliant fuel (lower sulfur content) and not operate the scrubber.  This is bad, and could lead to significant fines, as this is one of the problems Carnival was cited for in their probation violations.

Shortly after he shared the information, the Cruise Director then chimed in to say that because of COVID, we all didn’t remember what it’s like to be outdoors, and on a cruise and weren’t used to the smells, and were probably not used to exhaust when we started driving our cars again too! I think he also said we didn’t remember what it was like to be outdoors, but I was shaking my head at that point- he just have known that it was not good PR to admit to the problem!

[luckyinpa]

Chief engineer admitted the issue today at the captains corner and they have complaints n he hopes corporate can get it fixed soon per the above post. So this is def not normal and no person should regularly be smelling this. I think anyone that voluntarily spends time there must work on a skunk farm not to be bothered by it and I refuse to believe it's good for health

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, luckyinpa said:

Chief engineer admitted the issue today at the captains corner and they have complaints n he hopes corporate can get it fixed soon per the above post. So this is def not normal and no person should regularly be smelling this. I think anyone that voluntarily spends time there must work on a skunk farm not to be bothered by it and I refuse to believe it's good for health

They better hope no one reports them to EPA or USCG, or they could be in serious trouble.

[brianz09]

Was on the Feb 11, 2022 Getaway sailing and the exhaust smell in Spice was pretty bad some days.  More so than other Breakaway and Breakaway Plus ships I've been on. 

[chengkp75]

On 3/10/2022 at 1:10 AM, ClevelandCruisin said:

Maybe a ventilation problem. 

 

Kind of like our toilet wouldn't flush, and they had to open the vent somewhere on the outside to let it flush again.

Pardon my French, but that is the largest load of c**p (pun intended) that I've heard about vacuum toilets.  Not doubting that's what they told you, just that it makes absolutely no sense.  The entire toilet piping system is under a vacuum at all times, and has to remain as close to a perfect vacuum as possible to work properly.  Opening a vent would remove all vacuum, and all the ship's toilets would stop flushing.

[luckyinpa]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They better hope no one reports them to EPA or USCG, or they could be in serious trouble.

I thought they don't go by USA rules

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

I thought they don't go by USA rules

These are international regulations, that are enforced anywhere in the world, by any port state control agency (so the USCG, if it finds a violation that happened anywhere can prosecute).  Just like some of Carnival's environmental violations that didn't happen in the US, but were part of the case against them in the US.  Further, the North American ECA (emission control area), which covers the entire North American continent out to 200 miles, was established by the US, then adopted by the IMO, and is regulated by the EPA and enforced by the USCG.  Laws that cover things external to the ship, like environmental controls, taxes, customs duties, etc, are the jurisdiction of the port state, while the internal actions and policies of the ship are the jurisdiction of the flag state.

[sanger727]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:02 AM, MoCruiseFan said:

"Soon as the doors to spice opened it was heavy ship fuel"  it did not say that they SMELLED fuel or there was an ODOR of fuel, they said it WAS fuel.  I was going by what was actually posted w/o reading anything into it.

The sentence you quoted didn’t make a lot of sense in the first place and was missing words and punctuation. His other posts have some of the same issues. I wouldn’t take the word ‘it was’ as literally as this. Even if that it is what he was saying, it wasn’t expressed clearly.