SummmerInKefalonia Posted March 16 #1 Share Posted March 16 https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/03/carnival-corporation-sells-seabourn-odyssey-to-mol-group/ *****?! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdk-atlga Posted March 16 #2 Share Posted March 16 What the … we like the Odyssey. Granted, it’s not till next year. But,still… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLSD Posted March 16 #3 Share Posted March 16 30 minutes ago, jdk-atlga said: What the … we like the Odyssey. Granted, it’s not till next year. But,still… Financial pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodvino808 Posted March 16 #4 Share Posted March 16 Oldest ship that needs updating ($$$)….also the up charge on these expedition ships is higher yield. Either way a pivot towards higher return on venture and soon to be pursuit. my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLSD Posted March 16 #5 Share Posted March 16 Here's another article about the sale, with a bit more context: https://thepointsguy.com/news/seabourn-cruise-ship-sale-odyssey/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng75370 Posted March 16 #6 Share Posted March 16 (edited) Surprised they sold just Odyssey instead of also selling Quest and Sojourn along with it. Could see Seabourn trimming down to just the newest ships, then merging with Crystal (so Crystal ends up with newer builds and expedition; and Manfredi was willing to spend a lot to try to get Endeavour). Hope this isn’t the case, but in thinking through why they sold Odyssey this seemed possible. Edited March 16 by johng75370 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curmudgeon98 Posted March 16 #7 Share Posted March 16 Personally, I'd think this is likely a positive to Seabourn regulars. They looked at their capacity and sales (and other ships coming online), and realized they were having to stretch (selling discounted cabins) to keep the ships reasonably full. Selling into an over-saturated market means having to cut corners on the product. Keeping the ship through the timeframe where they have already sold cruises is a nice touch, inline with what you would hope for from Seabourn.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markham Posted March 16 #8 Share Posted March 16 (edited) I suppose the buyer did not want/need/get the price it wanted for more than one ship. That’s why this is a simple transaction. Reality: Carnival might have wanted to sell Seabourn as a whole going concern. Obviously that was not possible recently. I guess they have done all they can. Some ships are running well below capacity (for whatever reason) and so their margins are thin. The near objective is to reduce capacity (and expenses) and raise some capital. Anyway, the bigger question is what happens to Seabourn’s bookings on Ody and the other ships? This buyer does not necessarily have plans for Seabourn’s existing clientele once they take possession of Ody. But all of us with future bookings on all Seabourn ships might/have to be concerned. And new potential bookers will likely wait to see how Seabourn manages itself, to say nothing of additional buyers’ intentions. And what about Seabourn crew? What stops them from being cherry picked? That’s most of what we are buying, crudely speaking, when we buy Seabourn cruises. While Seabourn will want to retain existing bookings, that will come at a price- investment in the brand or discounting fares to attract more people to fill the ships. What stops anyone from cancelling and maybe rebooking on new terms? What can Seabourn do? How can Seabourn incentivise current bookers and the best of the crew to stay? Let’s hear from the new Seabourn president! Happy and healthy sailing! Edited March 16 by markham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted March 16 #9 Share Posted March 16 Lots of sushi on this ship now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpleally Posted March 16 #10 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, johng75370 said: Surprised they sold just Odyssey instead of also selling Quest and Sojourn along with it. Could see Seabourn trimming down to just the newest ships, then merging with Crystal (so Crystal ends up with newer builds and expedition; and Manfredi was willing to spend a lot to try to get Endeavour). Hope this isn’t the case, but in thinking through why they sold Odyssey this seemed possible. Ugh. Don’t merge with Crystal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Luxury Posted March 16 #11 Share Posted March 16 48 minutes ago, markham said: I suppose the buyer did not want/need/get the price it wanted for more than one ship. That’s why this is a simple transaction. Reality: Carnival might have wanted to sell Seabourn as a whole going concern. Obviously that was not possible recently. I guess they have done all they can. Some ships are running well below capacity (for whatever reason) and so their margins are thin. The near objective is to reduce capacity (and expenses) and raise some capital. Anyway, the bigger question is what happens to Seabourn’s bookings on Ody and the other ships? This buyer does not necessarily have plans for Seabourn’s existing clientele once they take possession of Ody. But all of us with future bookings on all Seabourn ships might/have to be concerned. And new potential bookers will likely wait to see how Seabourn manages itself, to say nothing of additional buyers’ intentions. And what about Seabourn crew? What stops them from being cherry picked? That’s most of what we are buying, crudely speaking, when we buy Seabourn cruises. While Seabourn will want to retain existing bookings, that will come at a price- investment in the brand or discounting fares to attract more people to fill the ships. What stops anyone from cancelling and maybe rebooking on new terms? What can Seabourn do? How can Seabourn incentivise current bookers and the best of the crew to stay? Let’s hear from the new Seabourn president! Happy and healthy sailing! So many questions Markham I have spoken to our knowledgeable TA He says that they got a very good price for a fourteen year old ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Luxury Posted March 16 #12 Share Posted March 16 20 minutes ago, purpleally said: Ugh. Don’t merge with Crystal That won't happen Crazy idea 😀 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLSD Posted March 16 #13 Share Posted March 16 I can see Seabourn "slimming down" to four ships--Ovation, Encore, Venture and Pursuit--and hoping to fill them. Not everyone's cup of tea as there are SB regulars who will not sail on any of these ships because they feel that Ovation and Encore have too many passengers and Venture/Pursuit are too expensive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Luxury Posted March 16 #14 Share Posted March 16 14 minutes ago, SLSD said: I can see Seabourn "slimming down" to four ships--Ovation, Encore, Venture and Pursuit--and hoping to fill them. Not everyone's cup of tea as there are SB regulars who will not sail on any of these ships because they feel that Ovation and Encore have too many passengers and Venture/Pursuit are too expensive. Quest is doing well and it has the reinforced Hull. I can't see that going anytime soon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng75370 Posted March 16 #15 Share Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Mr Luxury said: Quest is doing well and it has the reinforced Hull. I can't see that going anytime soon. Unless they got a great price for a 12 year old ship that is trying to compete against a number of newly built expedition ships. Without it competing in the expedition market there is nothing different about Quest than with Odyssey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Luxury Posted March 16 #16 Share Posted March 16 Just now, johng75370 said: Unless they got a great price for a 12 year old ship that is trying to compete against a number of newly built expedition ships. Without it competing in the expedition market there is nothing different about Quest than with Odyssey. That's right and Seabourn have the Pursuit coming soon. I suppose everything is for sale at the right price. Not me though 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markham Posted March 16 #17 Share Posted March 16 Mr L, No one on this board implied you are a cheap option. Not today or even yesterday. Anyway, whatever was paid by the buyer for Ody goes to service Carnival debt. Nothing to do with Seabourn ships in terms of current operations. Happy and healthy sailing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwankPooch Posted March 17 #18 Share Posted March 17 5 hours ago, purpleally said: Ugh. Don’t merge with Crystal I absolutely concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMCO Posted March 17 #19 Share Posted March 17 (edited) Slimming down -- means cutting costs. Typical Carnival's way is to send the ship to Turkey (like saying on Yellowstone -- going to the train station). So they found a buyer instead. Wonder which ship they will use for the semi-mass market Alaskan cruises (most likely Quest) since with Pursuit coming, it can takes Quests expedition cruises. And yes don't merge... Edited March 17 by PaulMCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng75370 Posted March 17 #20 Share Posted March 17 6 hours ago, purpleally said: Ugh. Don’t merge with Crystal I concur too, which is why I said in my post I hope this doesn’t happen. But when CCL has decided to sell parts of Seabourn piecemeal, some parts of it going to a competitor for the right price (and to fill a competitors gaps in the market) is not out of the question. Personally I hope this is just a slimming down, stops here, and they continue to make investments to keep the “hard product” best in class, as they did when they launched the Pride, Odyssey and more recently Venture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLSD Posted March 17 #21 Share Posted March 17 11 minutes ago, johng75370 said: I concur too, which is why I said in my post I hope this doesn’t happen. But when CCL has decided to sell parts of Seabourn piecemeal, some parts of it going to a competitor for the right price (and to fill a competitors gaps in the market) is not out of the question. Personally I hope this is just a slimming down, stops here, and they continue to make investments to keep the “hard product” best in class, as they did when they launched the Pride, Odyssey and more recently Venture. Right now, money is needed to pay down Carnival's massive debt. The money has to come from somewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRollock Posted March 17 #22 Share Posted March 17 Carnival has a huge debt to make a dent in so this news shouldn’t come as a surprise. The question is whether this is a one off sale or the beginning of the end for Seabourn. Maybe the rumours swirling around the Sky Bar over the last couple of years are true. Time will tell. Our very first Seabourn cruise many years ago was on Odyssey and it looks like our transpacific in April will be the last. Happy memories and we wish her well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goaliedad30 Posted March 17 #23 Share Posted March 17 It seems to me that selling excess capacity to a non-competitor as a way to pay down significant debt is a pretty reasonable business decision. I'm guess that longer-term, the Ovation/Encore class become the mainstream luxury product (which appear to line up very closely with the ship sizes offered by Regent, Silversea, and Viking), with the newer, higher margin Venture class ships offering the expedition product. Ultimately, if those ships can sail at full capacity, perhaps with Quest and its specialty hull as a middle option, that might prove a winning strategy. Time will tell! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare texanaust Posted March 17 #24 Share Posted March 17 Surely the sale of Odyssey won't make much difference to Carnival's 34.55 BILLION dollar debt. Rather than death by a thousand cuts, would it not be preferable for Seabourn to be sold off as a going concern like Azamara was? Surely the 'bean-counter' cutbacks (and there have been many) do not help with keeping its existing clientele coming back, nor make the brand as appealing to sell. As SLSD said, the Venture/Pursuit are too expensive for some and the larger ships too crowded. Perhaps a better business plan is in order? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Luxury Posted March 17 #25 Share Posted March 17 10 hours ago, SLSD said: Right now, money is needed to pay down Carnival's massive debt. The money has to come from somewhere. I would move Costa on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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