When will Princess have internet(data) ports in the cabins?

[Charles4515]

I think the key in here is the reliability of the technology in the shipboard circumstances... Even the walkie-talkies used on board a ship require a heliax(?)-cable to be installed through every single corridor to act as an additional transmitter. Otherwise there would be no chance of using them because of the bulkheads.

 

Similarily wireless internet would require a few dozen receivers on every single deck to work even at an acceptable level. It's not that big of an investment, but as long as it isn't necessary... ;)

 

Standard ethernet cabling isn't really an option on the ships where space is at premium. There are typically only a few telecommunication rooms on board a large cruiser, and besides the required space there is also a limit on how long the cabling can be (I think around a hundred yards). If it makes you feel any better, at least the more important crew members have an internet access in their own cabin. :D

 

The phones are wired. The Television service is wired. They could use the same wires. They could use one wire for TV, phone and data.

[Guest LetMeGo]

The phones are wired. The Television service is wired. They could use the same wires. They could use one wire for TV, phone and data.

 

You're forgetting the lights, power sockets, ac control, fire alarm, speakers, etc... ;)

 

 

Yes, they could use either of those systems for internet access if the ship was designed for it from the start.

 

It isn't however practical (or even physically possible) to add another phone cable for all the cabins, corridors, and double the amount of cross connection racks in the electronics rooms in order to have both the telephone and internet working at the same time. That is what people are expecting.

 

The same thing is stopping the use of cable modems. You would have to radically increase the amount of trunk cabling in the ship (and add another few dozen amplifiers to those already full closets), or you would have a thousand passengers complaining how their internet is hopelessly slow. And with the physical modem in each room, which would also require another power socket, and you would also have an extra appliance to draw the attention of thieves,...

 

 

Yes, it can be theoretically done, but the ship has to be designed for that purpose from the start. Later additions are going to be very limited, either by their area of operation, by their practicality, or by their speed.

[KennyC]

It isn't however practical (or even physically possible) to add another phone cable for all the cabins, corridors, and double the amount of cross connection racks in the electronics rooms in order to have both the telephone and internet working at the same time.

They could do what some older hotels I've stayed in have done for retrofitting in-room ethernet- use one of the xDSL technologies to carry both. Then "all" that would be required for the legacy voice service is some filters and to change the cards in the telco closet. It wouldn't be dirt-cheap, but cheaper than rewiring every cabin, I'm sure.

[Pam in CA]

Then again, perhaps most passengers don't bring their laptops because wireless is not available in the cabins.

I respectfully disagree emphatically. It's a hassle to carry a laptop on a plane in addition to the rest of the carry-on. Also, most people are on a cruise for a vacation and don't need or have to stay connected.

[Pam in CA]

The phones are wired. The Television service is wired. They could use the same wires. They could use one wire for TV, phone and data.

They would also have to make a significant investment in their satellite transmission equiment. All those wires and wireless have to go somewhere and they'd have to vastly increase the broadband capability. It's not a matter of stringing a few wires. It's a big investment for what I believe would be for just a few passengers. If you're willing to see your cruise price go up significantly, then go ahead and demand wireless. I, for one, would prefer to pay less for the cruise and use the Internet already available.

[RetireeWannabee]

I respectfully disagree emphatically. It's a hassle to carry a laptop on a plane in addition to the rest of the carry-on. Also, most people are on a cruise for a vacation and don't need or have to stay connected.

 

I completely agree with everything Pam has said in this thread.

 

If the day comes when all electronics must be in checked baggage, the number of people bringing laptops will shrink even more. Yes, there are some people that can drive to ports, but I don't think that's the majority of cruisers and I don't think anyone has data to suggest that most drive-to-port cruisers want to bring their laptops on vacation and have in-room internet. We are talking about a minority of passengers wanting this.

 

Ships already have internet cafes as a courtesy, and atrium wireless. Those that need connectivity can get it. Perhaps it's not the most convenient, but it Is Available.

 

I'm not going to expect hot tubs in every cabin any time soon, either, as some people don't use them at all, and for those that do, there are hot tubs available.

 

Maybe a niche line will show up that caters to the business traveller and all cabins and all convenient places on all decks will allow internet access and cell phone reception.

[billsgal]

Every time someone suggests that Princess join the other lines by offering some technological advance, the standard response is that it would be too expensive and most people wouldn't make use of it anyway. Seems that others are able to handle the expense and remain competitive. The cost didn't prevent them from installing the controversial MUTS system on a number of their newbuilds or retrofitting some of their other ships, although the cost and the mixed reaction to MUTS has apparently caused them to rethink the situation. Perhaps you are right, Princess just can't afford to take on any new expenses at the present time.:(

[thepinkpanther]

In reading this thread I've come to understand the possible reasons that wireless internet is not available shipwide. Yeah it would be really really nice to be able to have wireless access in my cabin, but I can see why Princess has not yet embraced this.

 

What I don't understand is why/how many posters associate the desire for wireless access with being a business person. Believe it or not, but most people take internet access (even wireless) as a given, and many would expect it on a cruise. If you go on a resort vacation, they'll no doubt have access. With the leaps and bounds of technology these days, and the growing numbers of people that grew up with or interact everyday with the internet, there should be no surprise that there are people that want to stay connected.

 

Think of it like this, we all have TVs in our cabins. Yeah they don't offer much, but there are at least 3 news channels, one is international news. Think back to the days before TVs were in cabins, and think of those people who said that TVs were not really needed. I view the internet and internet access the same way.

 

I happily bring my laptop on board to bypass the security restrictions placed on the computers in the internet cafe. I also don't have to invest in a huge memory card since I can transfer pictures to my computer every day. Bringing my laptop to the atrium is a hassle, but I guess it does help me limit my online time. :D

[RetireeWannabee]

If you go on a resort vacation, they'll no doubt have access.

 

This is incorrect. Check tuggbbs.com/forums or I can come up with at least 50 resorts that do not offer internet in the units. Plenty have it in a common area, tho.

[Guest LetMeGo]

They could do what some older hotels I've stayed in have done for retrofitting in-room ethernet- use one of the xDSL technologies to carry both. Then "all" that would be required for the legacy voice service is some filters and to change the cards in the telco closet. It wouldn't be dirt-cheap, but cheaper than rewiring every cabin, I'm sure.

 

It sure would be cheaper, but then were back to having additional equipment being stolen/broken in the cabins. :D

 

I admit I don't have that much knowledge on telecommunications, but I do know that on the ships I've seen every single data point has been supplied by an individual etherrnet cable. There must be another reason why the telephone system is incompatible for data transmission... I would guess that the system is only capable of connecting something like 100(?) phone calls at the same time, and having all the passengers browsing the internet at the same time would block the system completely in addition to the outside connection via satellite being too slow for that many users.

[KennyC]

I would guess that the system is only capable of connecting something like 100(?) phone calls at the same time, and having all the passengers browsing the internet at the same time would block the system completely

Actually, with the xDSL technologies, the bandwidth for data is independent of that (at the subscriber/phone jack level) of voice. The line-cards will distribute the voice as before and seperate the IP portion.

 

However, there is a good point that PamInMa and you have come upon:

 

in addition to the outside connection via satellite being too slow for that many users.

Yeah, they'd have to make serious upgrades to the uplink if it were more readily available (however, were this necessary, this means that unlike what the Retiree and Pam have said, this means that people were using the 'net after all).

[Guest LetMeGo]

Actually, with the xDSL technologies, the bandwidth for data is independent of that (at the subscriber/phone jack level) of voice. The line-cards will distribute the voice as before and seperate the IP portion.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the selected hardware and computer software not being able to handle more than x connections from different cabins at the same time, whether they were phone calls or internet connections. There are about 4,000 phones on a large cruise ship, and it isn't realistic to expect that more than 5% of those were ever intended to be operated at the same time... One of the limits with the current setup is the trunk cabling between the phone racks. They most definitely don't have more than a few hundred lines between them, and all of them are not connected to the same dish.

 

I don't know how the satellite connection actually works out, so it's hard to say how major the problem would be... I don't even know how many antennas they have on the cruise ships. :eek:

I assume that more internet connections would need more dishes to be able to connect to more satellites at the same time, instead of just cabling the other phone rooms to the same dish.

[threecats]

Think of it like this, we all have TVs in our cabins. Yeah they don't offer much, but there are at least 3 news channels, one is international news. Think back to the days before TVs were in cabins, and think of those people who said that TVs were not really needed. I view the internet and internet access the same way.

 

I still think TVs aren't needed in the cabins.:D We didn't turn ours on even once during our 15-night Hawaii roundtrip. Same goes for internet access. I am debating with myself whether to bring my laptop on my next cruise, just for my digital photos, but definitely don't need and, more importantly, dont want to get on the internet during my cruise.

 

Having said that, not everybody can be "disconnected" from the outside world during a cruise, whether for business or personal reasons. So, I think it's definitely good that there is the option, just as there are TVs for those that like them. Whether the bean counters at Princess and other cruise lines will deem in-cabin internet access profitable, remains to be seen. Personally, I think the cost of the satellite bandwidth required, if internet access is too convenient for people to pass it up, is still too high at this time. But the way prices for technology have been dropping for years, it might very well be coming in the foreseeable future.

 

Actually, I think I read somewhere that the QM2 has data ports in every cabin. Can someone confirm that? I guess Cunard could afford it with their fares!

[KennyC]

I was thinking more along the lines of the selected hardware and computer software not being able to handle more than x connections from different cabins at the same time, whether they were phone calls or internet connections.

Well, the voice part of an xDSL phone system uses entirely different switching gear than the IP side of it; while switching voice has some limit on concurrent connections, all that's really necessary on the limited IP subnet in a typical telco cabinet is a run-of-the-mill ethernet switch.

 

One of the limits with the current setup is the trunk cabling between the phone racks.

Again, not an issue with the way I'm imagining it set up; you HAVE to remember, it's possible to retrofit such that phone and voice are carried on seperate lines, and a single gigabit ethernet or fiber connection routed among all the decks and stations could carry more bandwidth than is possible to reliably get to the ship anyway.

 

I assume that more internet connections would need more dishes to be able to connect to more satellites at the same time

Nah, that's not how it would be done- it's nearly a certainty that the downlink would be constrained to one satellite. Remember, the problem isn't really the available bandwidth (consider that Direct TV has DirectWay, which serves quite a few people on land) but the fact that the ship moves around and is in variable weather conditions, which means they have to keep the bandwidth down. There's a somewhat-complex formula (Shannon's equation) that tells you how "clean" (i.e., how many errors can be tolerated and how strong it is) for your signal to be to get a certain number of bits thru it.

[Guest LetMeGo]

Well, the voice part of an xDSL phone system uses entirely different switching gear than the IP side of it; while switching voice has some limit on concurrent connections, all that's really necessary on the limited IP subnet in a typical telco cabinet is a run-of-the-mill ethernet switch.

 

Again, not an issue with the way I'm imagining it set up; you HAVE to remember, it's possible to retrofit such that phone and voice are carried on seperate lines, and a single gigabit ethernet or fiber connection routed among all the decks and stations could carry more bandwidth than is possible to reliably get to the ship anyway.

 

Nah, that's not how it would be done- it's nearly a certainty that the downlink would be constrained to one satellite. Remember, the problem isn't really the available bandwidth (consider that Direct TV has DirectWay, which serves quite a few people on land) but the fact that the ship moves around and is in variable weather conditions, which means they have to keep the bandwidth down. There's a somewhat-complex formula (Shannon's equation) that tells you how "clean" (i.e., how many errors can be tolerated and how strong it is) for your signal to be to get a certain number of bits thru it.

 

So... You would only have to install additional optical fibre cabling throughout the engineering spaces to connect the new data terminals in the phone racks? Somehow I wouldn't have though that connecting the data and phone systems would be that easy. :D I know that they can be connected, but for some strange reason I have only seen them as separate cabinets in the same room.

 

I don't know how much it affects the quality of the data stream, but the phone cables don't go directly to the cabins from the switchboard... There are trunk cables that go to as many as 48 cabins, and the cabin lines are connected to these main cables out in the hallways. Also, there are quite a few power cables that are installed on the same cable trays within inches of the phone cables...

 

I don't even know what DirectWay is, so I think I'm just about finished with this avenue of discussion. :D

Maybe they should just install a new dish the size of a rock climbing wall, and cut through all the interference. :p

[KennyC]

Somehow I wouldn't have though that connecting the data and phone systems would be that easy.

IIRC, there's major-vendor equipment made for the sole purpose of retrofitting legacy PBX equipment for IP access- the whole point being it's cheaper and easier to do that than re-run all new cabling for IP.

[negc]

This is incorrect. Check tuggbbs.com/forums or I can come up with at least 50 resorts that do not offer internet in the units. Plenty have it in a common area, tho.

 

And for those 50 resorts that do not offer internet in the units there are probably as many or more that do. It is hardly relevant to the discussion. What I find most disturbing, though, is the attitude that if an individual doesn't have a particular need for a specific feature on a cruise ship, he or she automatically concludes that no one else does or should. We can all think of things that are offered that we can do without but most of us would not claim that since we don't need it, it shouldn't be offered. Wondering why anyone would want a specific feature available on their cruise, since we don't, seems to me to be the height of self-centeredness. Should I say that since I don't eat lobster, I don't see why Princess should have it on their menu? Of course not, but how is that much different from saying that since I don't want to schlep my laptop on a cruise, those who do, shouldn't have wifi access in their staterooms, especially when other lines do offer that amenity? At the rates that they charge for internet access, they could probably recoup the cost in a reasonable amount of time.

[RetireeWannabee]

And for those 50 resorts that do not offer internet in the units there are probably as many or more that do. It is hardly relevant to the discussion. What I find most disturbing, though, is the attitude that if an individual doesn't have a particular need for a specific feature on a cruise ship, he or she automatically concludes that no one else does or should. We can all think of things that are offered that we can do without but most of us would not claim that since we don't need it, it shouldn't be offered. Wondering why anyone would want a specific feature available on their cruise, since we don't, seems to me to be the height of self-centeredness. Should I say that since I don't eat lobster, I don't see why Princess should have it on their menu? Of course not, but how is that much different from saying that since I don't want to schlep my laptop on a cruise, those who do, shouldn't have wifi access in their staterooms, especially when other lines do offer that amenity? At the rates that they charge for internet access, they could probably recoup the cost in a reasonable amount of time.

 

I didn't say this stuff at all. What I said was, they already offer internet onboard. Those that want connectivity can have it.

 

My position is that I would be against undertaking a major expense that would hike fares to make an already available amenity more convenient to the minority that choose to use it. (I do think it's a minority but I don't think we can accurately gauge that from an internet cruise message board).

 

To me it would make more financial sense to build it in to a future ship than to dry dock a perfectly good ship to accomodate this feature.

[KennyC]

"If you unwire it, they will come." :)

[negc]

I didn't say this stuff at all. What I said was, they already offer internet onboard. Those that want connectivity can have it.

 

My position is that I would be against undertaking a major expense that would hike fares to make an already available amenity more convenient to the minority that choose to use it. (I do think it's a minority but I don't think we can accurately gauge that from an internet cruise message board).

 

To me it would make more financial sense to build it in to a future ship than to dry dock a perfectly good ship to accomodate this feature.

 

I apologize if you thought I was referring to your post when I commented about some people who don't believe that there is a need for wireless internet access in the cabins because it isn't important to them. I know that you never said such a thing but I wasn't referring to your post but to the other posts which voiced that opinion. That's what I get for trying to respond to two different thoughts with one post. :( As a matter of fact, I agree with you that it would probably be more cost-effective to address this matter during the construction of new ships rather than retrofitting their current fleet, although at some point it would seem that bringing this technology to the entire fleet makes good sense. I also agree that we are probably dealing with a topic that currently is of interest only to a minority of cruisers but one which may grow importance in the coming years.

 

If Princess were to give any indication that they will be incorporating new technologies such as in-cabin wireless connections and interactive TVs, in their future newbuilds, I would be satisfied, but I have seen no evidence that this is their intent.

[JotWorld]

The eBills must be received & paid, the bank & credit card statements must be reviewed, the family must communicate, the PICs must be downloaded

& backed up, tours scheduled, flight changed, car rentals in port adjusted, etc, etc, etc!:)

Have I made my point for the need of the INTERNET in today's World & on any Cruises longer than 7 Days?:confused:

[steve20832]

I heard one company pulled airline flight internet access due to very low demand.

 

I just don't see internet access being in high demand on a flight unless the flight is over 6 hours or so. It also depends on what the airline was charging for this service.

Another note: Airlines charge $2.99 per minute for in air phone service in the back of the seats. I fly about once a month and have never seen anyone use those phones. Probably due to the price and short time you are on a plane.

 

I respectfully disagree emphatically. It's a hassle to carry a laptop on a plane in addition to the rest of the carry-on. Also, most people are on a cruise for a vacation and don't need or have to stay connected.

 

As far as internet access on a ship goes, people are away from thier email and stock quotes for a week or so and want to stay connected to the high tech world we live in now. I do plan on bringing my laptop with me because I need to reply to emails and place orders since I run my own business. I would loose orders and money if I don't. If I didn't have the business, I wouldn't have a laptop and would have no need to check email, etc. Everyone has thier own reasons for being connected to the internet on vacation.

[KennyC]

It also depends on what the airline was charging for this service.

... and like AirFone service on the airline, Connexxion was gouging- that's the real reason nobody really used it (and this was on routes that were heavy with business travelers).

[RetireeWannabee]

Everyone has thier own reasons for being connected to the internet on vacation.

 

Or not. Agreed. Some want, some don't. Some are in the middle.

 

I think it would be a mistake to do away with the pcs on board (whatever they call the spot - internet cafe?) since there will be those who would use it, but not bring a laptop. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out and how the pricing goes.

 

Those of you that "travel connectedly", how does the atrium pricing compare to your finer hotels? How much more would you pay to have it in your cabin?

 

negc - I apologize, too. We agree on more than we disagree about.

[rjack22]

The two hotels that I have stayed at recently had free Internet.

 

But those that charge are generally in the $10-$12 range per day, unlimited minutes. Cheaper than .35 per minute unless you limit yourself to less than 30 minutes per day on your cruise. And with the slower connection speed on the ship you will use more minutes.