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Holland America Tippings - Answers to questions


jazzsea

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Earlier this morning I sent an email to Joe Potts, Manager, Ship Services, Holland America Line.

 

I asked the following questions: "...As you know, I am a frequent poster on the Cruise Critic Holland America Line board.

 

There is a current thread about tipping that has many of us confused. As the guru in that area, would you please answer some questions? Also, is it okay for me to quote you in a reply?

 

1. What happens to a passenger that requests for the tips to be taken off of his bill and also refuses to fill out the questionnaire that follows such actions?

 

2. If someone leaves the tips in place on their account and also leaves extra for specific people, must those staff members turn in their tips to be shared by all?

 

3. Does the fee in the Pinnacle Grill cover the tips for the staff there? If not, does the wait staff share in the tipping pool?

 

4. Is there anything else you would like be to share on the boards?

 

Joe answers:

Here is some information as requested:

 

Our front office staff has been trained to ask for reasons why the gratuity is being adjusted or removed. There are a couple of reasons for this. If we have service issues that we are not aware of, then we want to know about it so we can fix it, and with any luck the guests will be candid and share any negative experiences with specifics that we can address. Also, we want to know if the guest is just more comfortable with another tipping arrangement. Remember that this current process was put into place not because we wanted to change it, but because we had overwhelming requests from our return guest base to allow tipping to be paid via the onboard bill. We went through considerable expense and back office accounting changes to accommodate this process because it was what people asked for. All that being said, if a guest wants to remove their gratuity and does not want to answer questions about why, they can politely decline to answer our questions and still have the gratuity removed.

 

Cash tips are not required to be reported and added to pool if the regular tipping via the onboard account is left in place. Those individuals will keep their tips or share with their local teams just as before.

 

The fee in the Pinnacle Grill does not include tipping, it is a cost item meant to control the volume within that restaurant at a pace that is suitable for the size of the venue. This is consistent with most other cruise lines and their specialty restaurants. The Pinnacle Grill staff is included in the tip pool given through the $10pp/day via the onboard account.

 

I have answered many direct questions about this policy and why we changed it, I have found the following items to be "true":

 

1. We had many requests under the old policy to advise on tipping and we were not able to provide a good answer to our guests. Now we can recommend $10 per person per day.

 

2. We had many requests under the old policy to pay by credit card or through the onboard bill for tips. The cash in the envelope and figuring out how much for each person and even locating them on the last day of the cruise was and is a hassle for most guests.

 

3. In the beginning, we felt that by making it an "opt out" rather than an "opt in" this would lead to shorter lines at the front office. In other words, more people would prefer to go with the $10pp/day plan on their onboard bill than to tip with cash or not tip at all. Had we implemented it as an "opt in" there would be longer lines and more people trying to get it on their account, than we currently have with people wishing to take it off their account.

 

4. As we have spent the last few months educating everyone, the numbers have increasingly gotten better and on some itineraries, we have less than 5% opting out. So we feel pretty good about the way the process is working, and in the long run, the hard working people out on the front lines, will come to expect and count on this income. We really have no way to compare to what they were getting before, but it seems that the feedback I have gotten from the staff is positive.

 

5. All guests still have the option. At the end of the day, they can still have the same experience that they had before and still give cash in the envelopes. They can still give exactly what they want based on the service provided. We know that no one amount or one system is going to work for 100% of our guests, we have simply tried to automate a process that takes care of the majority of our guests as easily as possible.

 

I welcome any feedback from any of our past cruisers. I only ask that if they have not experienced this process to try it once and see if they feel our service levels have slipped at all due to this new policy. If so, please report it back to me and I will include that information in my feedback to our operations management.

 

Thanks,

 

Joe

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Thanks for that, Jazzsea. I found it most helpful.

 

Personally, I prefer to have the $10 pppd and then be able to give extra cash to those I feel have given a good service. At least for us, from UK, it sorts out the "how much do I give and to whom" question. We are not rolling in money but neither do I want to be thought of as "mean" or to use an expression which we use here "tight-fisted".

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:)

 

When we were on the Maasdam this past May, we left the automatic tips on.

And we tipped extra to those who served us well: cabin steward, waiter and his assistant, Pinnacle Grill waitstaff, wine steward, concierge, those who served us cocktails in the various bars, and the waitstaff who served us breakfast and lunch in the Queen's Room.

:)

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I think much of what he provided in the response made sense. Often good compromises in what was bound to be a sticky change of policy. And I agree with what one poster said - if the staff is happy, then the policy is probably going at least half way to what I suspect was not only complaints from cruisers - but probably a worsening state of affairs when you get novice, less informed - and more budget-minded cruisers on a line that is used to the older, often more generous, and more traditional repeat clients.

 

(Course even as I say that I'm thinking of who might be offended ... let me rephrase, please: I don't mean in that statement that older travelers are better tippers, or more well-heeled and the younger aren't - I only meant that from the marketing perspective of the inevitability of trying to gain a share of the lower-priced target market you also will get people who will, on the whole tip less. Whether simply in good faith ignorant of the old "no tipping required" policy or just choosing to believe that their cruise price included such excellent service, is moot - it's a fact of the market.)

 

Back to the subject though: I also do agree that it is nice (and much more comfortable for me personally) to add gratuity to the credit card rather than the cash system (no one ever taught me the hand-palm slip - maybe i'm too young, maybe i'm a woman, maybe i'm from the poor south! i certainly never had anyone tip me that way!). Sometimes I worry my "direct" approach can be embarassing. Isn't the handslip supposed to be more "respectful" of the service? Don't ask me - I was the sort of waitress that served 'honkin big glasses of sweet tea in Texas steak houses'! The other advantage of that is, sometimes I want to tip extravagantly but I want it to be done "after" I've left. I don't tip so someone will show me gratitude. I tip because I feel like someone has made me feel like I'm not that waitress from the boondocks, but because - well, just because whyever they did it. It just feels good to be treated like the Queen of Sheba and then some.

 

Okay: here's the problem I see: It still does not seem to address, unfortunately, how you can "not" tip someone that you feel has provided poor service. And to "opt out" can be distressing to many who like to avoid confrontation. I'm one of those. It is one thing "not" tipping someone while tipping others - it is quite another "defending" yourself, in a one on one situation with someone I expect operates from a position of authority.

 

It is simply wrong, if I choose to opt out of the auto-tip for the money I give out in cash to the DESERVING parties to go to a pool or most likely on to the very person that I feel does not deserve it!

 

It was simply not where the money was intended to go, for whatever reason I have. And I shouldn't be called on it or put in ANY situation where I have to give a reason for it or "appear ugly or cheap". Tipping is how it has always been handled - a very direct message between patron and server - as how that service was received. It is still, I believe, tipping? It simply is an an ungracious and unrefined policy. Yes, again, I'm younger, I'm from the "poor south" - and maybe my daddy didn't teach me how to "slip" a tip. But even I know the policy has a serious "consumerism" flaw.

 

You know what they tell us designers and artists? Your portfolio is only as good as your worst piece. That's what they'll remember.

 

And I still maintain my earlier opinion. For years now I've run my own (albeit small) company and have worked "with" my people. Treating my people warmly and with respect, and with "belief" in their abilities to solve problems is the first way to get great service and a talented product from them. The second is to reward them as they deserve to be rewarded. This includes "not" rewarding them when they don't measure up. This policy will not ultimately help HAL from either identifying staff that need better training, helping those staff get that training - or ultimately eliminating them. It does exactly the opposite. It just covers up any problems. Any one in any bigger business knows what I'm talking about. And guess what happens when "one" person gives poor service - suddenly to the patrons eye - the whole ship gave poor service. They are looking for it now.

 

Finally, I think I've spent more than enough of every times on my opinion. So I'm going to work very hard to keep my mouth shut now. But in parting the topic. REALLY I PROMISE! I am looking forward to my cruise. I don't expect I'll run into any issues at all with service. I expect that I'll have no reason to opt out, and so this opinion will be a "moot point". Except that I'm one person. And there in lies the rub. This is one of those policies that can eventually erode and "poison" a company's reputation from the inside out. May take years - long enough for the current "good staff" to move on. Many of that 80% that don't speak up or post on boards to just quietly move on. And by the time the damage is done? It will be too late to rectify it, and one of HALs most distinquishing "unique" reasons to cruise, it's excellent service staff, will no longer exist. And that's a shame. I agree with the other posters here who have expressed the opinion - there's room, definitely room, in the cruise ship line for refined, unique and understated elegance. And it's a need that will only grow, not diminish, as more and more of us become disillusioned with McDonald and Mall of America travel.

 

Again - just my personal opinion - I'm ducking now!!

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Thanks, Jazzsea, for taking the time to get a straight answer. From Mr. Potts' response to your question #2, can it be assumed that if pax has the $10 p/p/p/d removed and opts to instead use the "old system" of cash in an envelope, the recipient must turn it in to be pooled?:confused: He didn't address that, but the way he worded his reply seems to indicate that to be the case. Since quite a few cc members have posted questioning that issue, a clarification would be helpful.

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It`s great to get the company policy "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak. This should help a lot of people on this board and maybe...just maybe, we can eliminate repeat threads regarding tipping.....jean

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:)

From reading different posts, we are assuming that if a person opts out of the automatic tipping, the crew are supposed to be notified of the passengers name and they are supposed to turn in any tip money handed to them by those passengers. The crew effected would be your cabin steward and waitstaff in the dining room.

:)

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The fee in the Pinnacle Grill does not include tipping, it is a cost item meant to control the volume within that restaurant at a pace that is suitable for the size of the venue. This is consistent with most other cruise lines and their specialty restaurants. The Pinnacle Grill staff is included in the tip pool given through the $10pp/day via the onboard account.

 

Having never been to the Pinnacle Grill, are the service there significantly better then at the dining room? Seems like most people who goes to the Pinnacle Grill opts to tip in addition to what is given to the wait staff as part of the pool.

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The fee in the Pinnacle Grill does not include tipping, it is a cost item meant to control the volume within that restaurant at a pace that is suitable for the size of the venue. This is consistent with most other cruise lines and their specialty restaurants. The Pinnacle Grill staff is included in the tip pool given through the $10pp/day via the onboard account.

 

Thanks for this comment - it is in sync with the letter from HAL in our booking materials. The Pinnacle Wait Staff are included in the tip pool just like other wait staff - so I will stick with HAL's decision that $10 per day in total is sufficient reward for excellent service and leave it at that. No need to worry about anything else, including tipping the Pinnacle staff separately

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Having never been to the Pinnacle Grill, are the service there significantly better then at the dining room? Seems like most people who goes to the Pinnacle Grill opts to tip in addition to what is given to the wait staff as part of the pool.

 

While we've not cruised since the introduction of the new tipping policy, in the past we have always tipped in the Pinnacle. Our tip was, roughly, $5 ... which we figured was sufficient (even though the meal was worth more). So ... we're probably going to still tip in the Pinnacle above the small amount that they would receive from the pool portion of the auto-gratuity. Perhaps we'll reduce how much we tip by a small amount, but perhaps not ... the amount they'll get from the pool from us will be minimal at best. And, besides, we prefer to tip directly for good service.

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:)

 

When we were on the Maasdam this past May, we left the automatic tips on.

And we tipped extra to those who served us well: cabin steward, waiter and his assistant, Pinnacle Grill waitstaff, wine steward, concierge, those who served us cocktails in the various bars, and the waitstaff who served us breakfast and lunch in the Queen's Room.

:)

 

 

What is your Point???

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I am also grateful to get this info from someone in authority. There's just one other thing that's still out there. I've posted it before, but no one has been able to answer it. How is the $10 split out? They tell us the people who get it ... but dollar by dollar who gets how much? It doesn't seem to be that this would be proprietary or confidential information. We're paying it, so it seems to me that the particulars should be disclosed to us. That would help me in determining if I wanted to tip someone additionally. As it stands, I'm leaning toward letting the $10 just be it. The jury is still out on this one.

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I posted this information in hopes of clearing up questions that were addressed in other posts. It is not my intention to debate the pros and cons of the Holland America tipping policy.

 

Tipping has always been and will always be a very personal issue for all of us.

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I believe that the tips are split 50 - 50 between dining room staff and housekeeping staff. The actual break down within the 50% varies based on passenger load and number of ports of call. I thought about that for a while and decided that the number of ports of call would make a difference to the dining room staff. Lots of sea days means lots of meals served aboard ship.

 

The bottom line is that onboard staff seems very happy with the new policy and that is good enough for me.

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While we've not cruised since the introduction of the new tipping policy, in the past we have always tipped in the Pinnacle. Our tip was, roughly, $5 ... which we figured was sufficient (even though the meal was worth more). So ... we're probably going to still tip in the Pinnacle above the small amount that they would receive from the pool portion of the auto-gratuity. Perhaps we'll reduce how much we tip by a small amount, but perhaps not ... the amount they'll get from the pool from us will be minimal at best. And, besides, we prefer to tip directly for good service.

 

Are you going to suppliment the tips for the regular dining room wait staff as well? Seems to me they should be getting more then the Pinnacle Grill wait staff, since more people are in the dining room.

 

In any case, tho, over at the Princess board, there was a break down of how the automatic tips are distributed. Princess also has a $10 per day tip, and I don't remember exactly how its brokwn down, but its something like $2.50 for your room steward, somewhere around $4 to be split between the waitstaff.. and so on.

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I have been reading these boards avidly since booking my cruise and have gotten quite spun up about how to handle tipping. Now I am satisfied. Thank you for taking the time to e-mail and to post the response you received.

 

I am done reading tipping threads!!

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We like the Pinnacle Grill and always eat there as often as possible. I love the clam chowder! In the past, we have left cash for the waiter or given it to him or her. I suspect we will continue this when we sail on Rotterdam in October. We are also likely to tip the wine steward/stewardess more as we often bring our own wines to dinner. We hand the tip to the steward when he reaches to open the already opened wine bottle. Doing this, we have never been charged a corkage fee. (** We did this on the Oceania Insignia last month. The wine steward took the £5 note [=$10.00] and also charged us the $20 corkage fee)

 

We also tip the room service waiter when he brings our breakfast. ($2.00 a day.)

 

Are there hard and fast rules for tipping on cruises? No, not really. There are guidelines and there are "policies". My guideline has always been kindness and true appreciation of quality service. That's why I keep coming back to Holland America. They are not perfect, but they are the very best in their price range.

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Are you going to suppliment the tips for the regular dining room wait staff as well? Seems to me they should be getting more then the Pinnacle Grill wait staff, since more people are in the dining room.

 

Correct. In addition to the gratuity amount on our shipboard accounts, we'll tip an additional amount per-person. How much each gets will be determined by the quality of the service. IF, for instance, the Room Steward does the kind of bang-up job most of my room stewards have done, I'll probably add an extra $2.50 per person/per day to the amount he will receive from the auto-gratuity. On a 21 day cruise that would amount to about $53 per person. The same will hold for our waitstaff. We'll also do something for those lounge servers who have been special throughout the cruise.

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How is the $10 split out? They tell us the people who get it ... but dollar by dollar who gets how much?

The Cruise Director gave the following breakdown on the Rotterdam last Friday (6/9/04):

$3.00 per person, per day to cabin steward and table steward ($6.00 of the $10.00). The remaining $4.00 was to be distributed to "behind the scenes" staff such as laundry and cleaning crew. There was no mention of the assistant table steward or Pinnacle staff.

 

My understanding was that if you leave the $10 in place any additional tips can be kept by the recipient, but if you remove the service chaarge anything you give in cash must be turned in (including any amount above the $3.00).

I also understand that you may reduce the $10, but not from a specific person. If you want to reduce or remove the service charge due to a specific poor steward, then give cash to an excellent one the better steward in effect has to turn part of his tip over to the poorer one.

 

Kind of defeats the purpose of "tipping", IMHO.

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Let me preface this by saying I loved my first HAL cruise last month on the Maasdam...so much, that I came home and booked the Veendam for next month...that said.....

 

I left the auto tips in place. I did not tip additionally to the cabin steward or dining room personnel as I did not have OUTSTANDING service. It was adequate.

 

I tipped the wine steward and the yum-yum man as he was very kind to me.

There was another crew member on board that I would have tipped if I had seen him the last day, but did not. He addressed me by name each time I saw him and was very sweet since he knew I was cruising solo.

 

Marie

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There was no mention of the assistant table steward or Pinnacle staff.
Exactly! I can't believe this individuals would be left out of the mix, let alone the Maitre d'. So it still doesn't pan out to me. Thanks, Ruth, for sharing this, however.
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Bobblefrog is concerned re: how do you acknowledge bad service if the "gratuity" is included automatically.

 

I would suggest that for VERY BAD service an appropriate solution might be a penny, in an envelope with an appropriate appreciation of service note

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