Keeping Passports with you

[lovemylab]

Let me try to understand, it is "foolish" for me to carry my official government ID that certifies that I am a US Citizen while I am visitng a foreign country?

 

Mine will be in my secure pocket when ashore.

 

Re-read my post. I said "the passport is not needed onshore and to suggest otherwise is foolish (especially since many passengers don't have the option of doing so and Americans don't even require them for some cruises)."

 

Where did I say it was foolish for you to take your passport onshore :confused: I didn't say it was foolish to carry your passport. I said it was foolish for people to suggest that passports are NEEDED onshore, when they are actually not.

[dforeigner]

if the passport was needed onshore, the cruiselines would instruct you to take it onshore and they would also make the passports available to all passengers.

 

I am not trying to argue or tell people what to do. I am simply setting up scenarios that could happen in case Mr. Murphy (Murphy's Law) decides to pay a visit.

I did read a thread where some individuals were cruising in Europe and the ship they were on (Princess I believe) kept their passports. They did an excursion on their own in Italy and missed the ship. The next port of call was in a different country and they had a hard time booking a flight due to not having their passports with them. If I recall correctly, they contacted the local Consulate and were able to catch up with the ship two days later.

On another note, I heard some people travel with two passports (a current one and an expired one). When visiting certain countries that keeps their passport until departing date, they will turn in their old passport and carry the new one with them. I am not sure if this would work on a cruise as they are the ones doing the immigration transactions upon arriving at a foreign port awaiting clearance from local customs/immigration officials.

[lovemylab]

dforeigner - I find that very interesting (the two passports). In Canada, we need to turn in our expired passport when we apply for a new one. As well, if we find a lost/stolen passport we are also required to turn it in.

[MrsPete]

Let me try to understand, it is "foolish" for me to carry my official government ID that certifies that I am a US Citizen while I am visitng a foreign country?

Exactly. If you're going on a water-based excursion, it is foolish. You could very easily lose or damage that government-issued ID, and that could lead to massive problems returning to the USA.

 

What you really NEED is your ship's ID card. You have to show it to leave the ship, and you have to show it to re-enter the ship. As long as you're not foolish enough to MISS the ship -- and the great majority of people who miss it do so though foolish behavior -- you're fine.

[cruzincurt]

You are correct that a passport is not needed ashore...until you need it.

[dforeigner]

dforeigner - I find that very interesting (the two passports). In Canada, we need to turn in our expired passport when we apply for a new one. As well, if we find a lost/stolen passport we are also required to turn it in.

 

Here in the States, we get the new passport along with the old one. The old one has the word cancelled punched through (small little holes) the word cancelled. And yes, if one were to find a passport, you are also required to turn it in.

[Terpnut]

You are correct that a passport is not needed ashore...until you need it.

Well said. :)

 

Not wanting to get your passport wet, lost or stolen are mere rationalizations based on a possible inconvenience. These are not valid REASONS based on a real risk and need. It's like saying you don't carry your driver's license when driving because you don't wish to risk losing it at the mall or have it stolen. Of course this rationalization misses the critical point--you are required to carry a driver's license when you drive. Although you are not REQUIRED to carry proof that you are a US citizen when abroad, why would anyone CHOOSE not to? Sure, 99.9% of the time, you will not get into a situation where your identity and/or citizenship is in question, but the purpose of your passport is SOLELY to authenticate this information and to help you in that 0.1% of the time when you need to!

 

And for non-US citizens, the reasons behind a cruise line taking and holding your passport have nothing to do with protecting YOU. This is not a government requirement--it's a business one. The fact that a cruise line holds your passport does NOT mean they believe you go ashore without your passport. It just means that their needs (perhaps to make sure you can be readmitted at your debarkation point) are more important than your 0.1% risk, that it's an acceptable risk to them, and that you SHOULD be alright at a specific port of call. BUT if you have an admittance/immigration issue, well, uh, well, oh too bad... guess it would've been better to have your passport... :rolleyes:

 

To repeat, a passport is an official document that authenticates who you are and to what country you are a citizen. Of course you need it to regain admission back into the U.S.. But you should also have it everywhere you step when you are outside the country. You can feel safe without it, but it is a false security. Remember, you are NOT in the U.S. and thus not protected by our government or by US law. So if you should ever need to prove your not some illegal immigrant or require the protection of your US citizenship, you MUST have your passport!

[Jhawktx]

My opinion is that you should keep your real passport with you in addition to a photocopy (kept separate from the real passport). A photocopy won't help you if you're stranded in a foreign country.

 

Oh geez, take both your passport AND a copy of it with you on shore excursions. Why stop there. Maybe it would be best to take your real passport, a copy in your sock, and a second copy in an available body cavity. I, mean, just in case...you never know. As a bonus, the body cavity copy may solve the waterproof problem too...well, maybe.

[lovemylab]

Remember, you are NOT in the U.S. and thus not protected by our government or by US law. So if you should ever need to prove your not some illegal immigrant or require the protection of your US citizenship, you MUST have your passport!

 

Just because you say that I MUST have my passport, doesn't mean that is the case. By the way, I am not American so US laws and government don't protect me anyways.

 

The Canadian government is able to assist me without a passport - that is what the Embassy is for.

 

I contacted the Foreign Affairs/Passport office before I left and asked them the following: "The cruiseline keeps my passport. What happens if I am onshore and run into problems?". They confirmed for me that it is perfectly normal for hotels, cruiselines, etc. to keep passports. They then directed me to their website where I found the following:

 

In some countries, you may have to surrender your passport to a foreign government official or a hotel/hostel employee. If you don't get it back in a reasonable time, inform the nearest Canadian Government office abroad.

 

 

Make two photocopies of the identification page of the passport.

• Leave one copy with a friend or relative at home.
  
• Bring the second copy with you on your trip. Carry this photocopy separately from the passport when you travel. This can help identifiying you if the passport is lost, stolen, damaged, destroyed or inaccessible.

Therefore, if I require the protection of the Canadian government I am able to do so without a passport.

 

In the unlikely event that I need to prove that I am not an illegal immigrant - the Embassy is also able to assist with this.

 

 

Just for fun I checked the US Passport site and found the following:

 

Make 2 copies of your passport identification page. This will facilitate replacement if your passport is lost or stolen. Leave one copy at home with friends or relatives. Carry the other with you in a separate place from your passport.

 

If you get into trouble, contact the nearest U.S. embassy.

 

Hmmm....looks like you are protected by the US Government without a passport as well.

 

I may have a 0.1% chance of needing my passport onshore (which without it the Embassy can assist anyways)....however most people stand a far greater chance having that passport lost/stolen onshore.

 

So...if this happens to you, how are you planning to get back into the US? You seem to think that you MUST have a passport for the government to assist.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am going to listen to the Passport Office in my country vs. a few people on a message board who seem to think they know everything.

[LHT28]

dforeigner - I find that very interesting (the two passports). In Canada, we need to turn in our expired passport when we apply for a new one. As well, if we find a lost/stolen passport we are also required to turn it in.

 

I still have my expired one as well as my new one!

[Terpnut]

Just because you say that I MUST have my passport, doesn't mean that is the case. By the way, I am not American so US laws and government don't protect me anyways.

 

The Canadian government is able to assist me without a passport - that is what the Embassy is for....

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am going to listen to the Passport Office in my country vs. a few people on a message board who seem to think they know everything.

It's your decision on what risks you want to take and when. And I did point out that non-US citizens may have different requirements. I never said you must carry your passport but did say that if you want to prove or authenticate your identity and citizenship to a foreign official while on their soil, then you MUST have your passport! You can whip out your driver's license but only a fool would believe that someone in Mexico will be as likely to accept that as official passport as a definitive form of ID. Same goes for birth certificates...

 

In your own example above, how do you propose to prove your identity to your own embassy that you're a Canadian citizen without a passport? Because you say so? How often have you ever appeared at your foreign embassies or consulates? The first thing they ask you for is your passport. If you don't have it, then HOPEFULLY they will be in a good mood and will look you up in their computer (or maybe not). So if you really don't need your passport for assistance at your embassy or to cross your border to go home, why do they even issue a passport? Are computers so sophisticated in Canada that now every one of your foreign service, border control or immigration offices have the ability to use facial, retinal or fingerprint technologies to automatically figure out that you're a Canadian citizen?

 

Again, anyone has the right to drive without their driver's license and to travel overseas without carrying their passport, but does that make it a good idea? If you agree that a passport is your country's sole official means of authenticating your identification and citizenship, then it's not.

[Hockey Nut]

Thanks for all the responses. We will weigh all the pros and cons and come up with a solution!!:confused: It appears a waterproof fanny pack is in the lead. Sorry this topic caused so much controversy, but I really enjoyed your responses. Thanks again.

[johnql]

Oh geez, take both your passport AND a copy of it with you on shore excursions. Why stop there. Maybe it would be best to take your real passport, a copy in your sock, and a second copy in an available body cavity. I, mean, just in case...you never know. As a bonus, the body cavity copy may solve the waterproof problem too...well, maybe.

Go ahead - make fun of my advice all you like. I hope you never get to find out what a hassle it is to be stranded in a foreign country with neither your real passport nor a copy of it. It's easy to make fun of any precaution if you take it to an extreme.

[lovemylab]

 

In your own example above, how do you propose to prove your identity to your own embassy that you're a Canadian citizen without a passport? Because you say so? How often have you ever appeared at your foreign embassies or consulates? The first thing they ask you for is your passport. If you don't have it, then HOPEFULLY they will be in a good mood and will look you up in their computer (or maybe not).

 

They will prove my identity the same way the US Embassy would prove your identification should you lose your passport - by other identification and a copy of the passport. Using this information, a replacement would be issued. Again, this is what I was told by the Embassy.

 

Just because I go onshore without a passport doesn't mean that I am travelling without one. I have a valid passport and used that as my identification to gain entry into the country (only in my case the cruiseline does the security clearance for me) The passport is not available for me to take onshore and this is something I have no control over.

[BobBeaSea]

It's your decision on what risks you want to take and when. And I did point out that non-US citizens may have different requirements. I never said you must carry your passport but did say that if you want to prove or authenticate your identity and citizenship to a foreign official while on their soil, then you MUST have your passport! You can whip out your driver's license but only a fool would believe that someone in Mexico will be as likely to accept that as official passport as a definitive form of ID. Same goes for birth certificates...

 

In your own example above, how do you propose to prove your identity to your own embassy that you're a Canadian citizen without a passport? Because you say so? How often have you ever appeared at your foreign embassies or consulates? The first thing they ask you for is your passport. If you don't have it, then HOPEFULLY they will be in a good mood and will look you up in their computer (or maybe not). So if you really don't need your passport for assistance at your embassy or to cross your border to go home, why do they even issue a passport? Are computers so sophisticated in Canada that now every one of your foreign service, border control or immigration offices have the ability to use facial, retinal or fingerprint technologies to automatically figure out that you're a Canadian citizen?

 

Again, anyone has the right to drive without their driver's license and to travel overseas without carrying their passport, but does that make it a good idea? If you agree that a passport is your country's sole official means of authenticating your identification and citizenship, then it's not.

 

Not true, especially for Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Bermuda or any other country that DOES not require an American to have a passport. As far as why you need a passport, most countries in the world DO require it. It is a travel document, period. Do you really think the Canadian government is going to give me a problem if I don't have my original passport which was stolen because I was crazy enough to carry it with me? Of course not. The same applies for American citizens.....geeez, have a little faith in your government, you will NOT be abandoned.

[johnql]

For what it's worth, here's a link to the Independent Traveler's advice concerning passports. The Independent Traveler is the sister site to Cruise Critic. Here's an excerpt from the link:

"You should always carry a passport when traveling abroad, even if one is not required to enter the country. Before you leave home make two copies of your passport identification page. Leave one copy at home with friends or relatives and carry the other with you in a separate place from your passport. If your passport is lost or stolen, this will speed up the replacement process."

[url]http://www.independenttraveler.com/resources/article.cfm?AID=69&category=6[/url]

[Terpnut]

[quote name='Autumn3']They will prove my identity the same way the US Embassy would prove your identification should you lose your passport - by other identification and a copy of the passport. Using this information, a replacement would be issued. Again, this is what I was told by the Embassy.

Just because I go onshore without a passport doesn't mean that I am travelling without one. I have a valid passport and used that as my identification to gain entry into the country (only in my case the cruiseline does the security clearance for me) The passport is not available for me to take onshore and this is something I have no control over.[/quote]I appreciate that you have no control over the fact that the cruiseline takes your passport--it just wouldn't sit well with me for all the reasons I've already cited.

[Terpnut]

[quote name='BobBeaSea']Not true, especially for Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Bermuda or any other country that DOES not require an American to have a passport. As far as why you need a passport, most countries in the world DO require it. It is a travel document, period. Do you really think the Canadian government is going to give me a problem if I don't have my original passport which was stolen because I was crazy enough to carry it with me? Of course not. The same applies for American citizens.....geeez, have a little faith in your government, you will NOT be abandoned.[/quote]I never said that a passport is required to enter all countries but that, when you are travelling in foreign country, it is best to carry your passport with you at all times. I believe you should carry it because YOU may need it at a moment's notice--not because somebody else may require it.

As for your point about "faith in your government"--they are only YOUR government if you can even reach them AND if you can prove you are their citizen! What if you are detained by local Mexican police, for example, and don't have your passport? And having dealt with the occasionally incompetent government bureaucrat, do you really want to "have faith" in the thousands of foreign or embassy officials, or perhaps just carry your passport as proof? As to "crazy enough to carry it"--again, why are you crazy enough to carry your driver's license when driving if it too might get stolen or lost? Getting a passport stolen, wet or lost are not REASONS not to carry it--these are merely EXCUSES. A passport is not like carrying a stack of $1,000 bills or a precious jewel that needs to be protected, guarded, coddled and put in a safe--it's to help prove your identity and citizenship on the off chance you might really need to. You are right, a passport is a travel document, so carry it whenever and wherever you travel!

[alphakitty]

I'm still of the mind that I want my passport with me. In the story I quoted, the biggest problem the OP had was of course, missing the ship. However, if they had had their passports, they'd have been able to get on a plane and catch up with the ship right away. Sure, having a copy will help in getting a new passport, but getting to the Embassy was a problem for them and sometimes finding one that is open when you need it could be a problem too. I understand the arguement both ways, but I'm keeping my passport with me, whenever I can.

kitty

[agabbymama]

[quote name='BobBeaSea']Not true, especially for Mexico, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, Bermuda or any other country that DOES not require an American to have a passport. As far as why you need a passport, most countries in the world DO require it. It is a travel document, period. Do you really think the Canadian government is going to give me a problem if I don't have my original passport which was stolen because I was crazy enough to carry it with me? Of course not. The same applies for American citizens.....geeez, have a little faith in your government, you will NOT be abandoned.[/quote]

BobBeaSea,

Yes, I do believe your Canadian government is going to give you a problem because you don't have your passport. I'm sure they will assist you, if you have a copy and they can look you up in their computer, but how long a time will you be held up, will it ruin your vacation to spend hours at an Embassy that could have been avoided if you had your passport with you?

And no, I don't have much faith in any GOVERNMENT. In 1995 way before 9/11 was ever thought of, I was traveling in Australia. I thought it would be a nice idea to see the United States Embassy. I walked about 10 miles to get there, to be denied entry, and I had my U.S. Passport with me. The guard stated entry into the Embassy Grounds is for Embassy personnel only. I was told to go to an office address in downtown Canberra if I needed assistance. After that episode, I don't trust the Government to see to my needs. You are required to have a passport to travel to foreign countries, then to regain admittance to your own country. If it wasn't required for identification, then why on earth would anyone pay $75-100 to get the stupid thing in the first place. Now since 9/11, more than ever before, you can be sure my passport is with me at all times.

I just returned from a New England/Canada cruise, and my passport was in my purse along with my airline tickets, money and jewelry at all times. It is a valuable document and should be treated as such. I may have been a prime target for a burglar, but I didn't broadcast it to the news. And I have no objection to anyone looking at my passport, but I refuse to stay at a hotel that wants to keep it overnight. I have traveled all over Europe, Australia, and the Caribbean, and only one hotel in Italy wanted to keep our passports. I said no thanks, and moved on to another hotel. At home I wouldn't give my driver's license to anyone to hold for me, so when I travel that passport stays with me. Don't think I would take a cruise if that was a consideration either.

But bottom line, people will do what they want to do, so all of our advice or speculation doesn't mean much anyway.:eek:

[johnql]

[quote name='agabbymama']But bottom line, people will do what they want to do, so all of our advice or speculation doesn't mean much anyway.:eek:[/quote]
Truer words were never spoken (or written).

[cruzincurt]

On a recent cruise we ate dinner with a couple from England. They demanded their passports back and got them. Appartently the cruise line has no valid international business keeping them. They are probably just making it easier to round them up when they get back to the ship. As I stated earlier, the ship is simply a mode of transportation. They did hand them back for immigration once arriving back in the US.

[Nobbi]

Some countries REQUIRE that everyone carries valid identification. In many countries a drivers license is not that. There usually is an official government ID card as well as a passport.

Apparently some countries do not require this.

Where it is not required, it becomes a choice. The pros and cons have all been discussed.

I generally do not carry my passport on me but have it safely at my hotel. I can always get it when needed. With a cruise it may be different since the hotel (usually) will not float away.

Going to Mexico, I will carry a copy of the passport with me this time. I'll leave the original in the cabin. I have even less of a chance of missing the ship than being robbed. No shore excursions planned. I'll be responsible for myself.

[Terpnut]

[quote name='Nobbi']Some countries REQUIRE that everyone carries valid identification. In many countries a drivers license is not that. There usually is an official government ID card as well as a passport.

Apparently some countries do not require this.

Where it is not required, it becomes a choice. The pros and cons have all been discussed.

I generally do not carry my passport on me but have it safely at my hotel. I can always get it when needed. With a cruise it may be different since the hotel (usually) will not float away.

Going to Mexico, I will carry a copy of the passport with me this time. I'll leave the original in the cabin. I have even less of a chance of missing the ship than being robbed. No shore excursions planned. I'll be responsible for myself.[/quote][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]What is required or not required by a foreign government is not really my point. My point is that nobody can foresee all the situations where they might need their passport while travelling abroad so one should not overrationalize all the reasons they choose not to carry it. One should not become complacent simply because they've already been to Mexico 25 times without any problems and they don't want to risk losing their passport or having it stolen or get wet. These are not legitimate reasons not to carry your passport.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
While in Mexico, for example, what if you are suddenly injured or arrested? While you are lying in a hospital or sitting in jail, the ship will be long gone. At that moment, as you attempt to contact the local consulate, rent a car, or perhaps try to book a flight home, ask yourself: are you now better off having carried your passport with you, or are you now regretting leaving it in the hotel or on the ship where you thought you could get it anytime?

If you still believe a passport should be treated like a $10,000 diamond ring, should be safe-guarded and protected (instead of letting it protect you!), and that it should be carried selectively when you think you need it, well that is your choice. I just hope you appreciate that, however unlikely, there are real risks when travelling abroad. The risks are probably higher in Pakistan or China than, say Bermuda or Grand Cayman, but regardless, there are risks wherever we travel. For me, it's a universal ID whose express purpose is to accompany me everywhere and to faciliate protections as a U.S. citizen (in my case) whenever my feet stand on non-US soil. Thus I am no more likely to go to the beach in Cozumel without my passport than I would be to drive to my local mall without my driver's license. Like someone said earlier, a passport isn't needed...until you really need it.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[Nobbi]

[quote name='Terpnut'][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]What is required or not required by a foreign government is not really my point. My point is that nobody can foresee all the situations where they might need their passport while travelling abroad so one should not overrationalize all the reasons they choose not to carry it. One should not become complacent simply because they've already been to Mexico 25 times without any problems and they don't want to risk losing their passport or having it stolen or get wet. These are not legitimate reasons not to carry your passport.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]
While in Mexico, for example, what if you are suddenly injured or arrested? While you are lying in a hospital or sitting in jail, the ship will be long gone. At that moment, as you attempt to contact the local consulate, rent a car, or perhaps try to book a flight home, ask yourself: are you now better off having carried your passport with you, or are you now regretting leaving it in the hotel or on the ship where you thought you could get it anytime?

If you still believe a passport should be treated like a $10,000 diamond ring, should be safe-guarded and protected (instead of letting it protect you!), and that it should be carried selectively when you think you need it, well that is your choice. I just hope you appreciate that, however unlikely, there are real risks when travelling abroad. The risks are probably higher in Pakistan or China than, say Bermuda or Grand Cayman, but regardless, there are risks wherever we travel. For me, it's a universal ID whose express purpose is to accompany me everywhere and to faciliate protections as a U.S. citizen (in my case) whenever my feet stand on non-US soil. Thus I am no more likely to go to the beach in Cozumel without my passport than I would be to drive to my local mall without my driver's license. Like someone said earlier, a passport isn't needed...until you really need it.
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/quote]

You're right. No one can foresee the future. But their are probabilities for events. I think for me in Mexico, knowing my behavior, chances of getting assaulted/robbed of my passport are small but higher than getting arrested or injured. If I were hit by a car someone else could retrieve the passport from the ship or hotel.

If I were arrested anyway, I'd have a copy of my passport on me and I could provide the location of the original. (If the police were totally corrupt or evil, I doubt having the original on me would make any difference.)

Since a passport is not required of Americans in Mexico, I'm not breaking any law. With my copy, I'm sure I could get help from a US consular official to get a replacement.

For me it's all a matter risk probabilities. I'm not saying that one should never carry a passport. I travel a lot by plane and always carry it when I travel internationally. But I usually don't have it on my body when abroad.