Is the thermal suite/hydro pool still adults only?

[codyody]

If a pool, or any area, is designated "adults only", why is there no signage?

[Old As Dirt Mom]

If a pool, or any area, is designated "adults only", why is there no signage?

 

When we are onboard Amsterdam next month, I will look for signage, and report my findings back here upon our return. On our last cruise, the use of the aft pool wasn't an issue, because it was too cold and windy to be used for most of the trip. So I didn't observe whether there were signs posted. It was all we could do to stand up in that wind on the aft deck on sea days!

 

Karin

[GPoll189]

I have that also from when I cruised in the Club HAL program however that was never inforced and I did work with Club HAL counselors for 4 cruises and the reason that they said that is that they like to group the children together when there are no activities going on. But there is no signage near the pool. Those are rules set buy Club HAL because they don't do anymore pool activities. Back in the days they use to do pool activties but they got to many complaints from other passengers. But there is no signage to my knowledge at the aft pool saying it is off limits. IF some of the children don't go to Club HAL then they won't see the rules and can't follow them unless they are posted somewhere else.

 

So in Summary:

It is a Club HAL rule set forth to try to keep the children together.

It is also to try to prevent injuries from hapening

 

And I said I would get off my soap box so I will but my last question is: Is there somewhere else it is posted for the children to follow that don't choice to participate in Club HAL activites.

[GPoll189]

Sorry while I was reading over you post Middle-age-mom I noticed that club HAl contraticted themselves because of this statement:

 

Children must be accompanied and/or supervised by their parents at all times while in or around the ship's pools.

They say ship's pools not ship's pool. It can be seen by some parents as a loop hole for those parents that are that much into trying to break rules. However if it is rule to be followed then I think they should enforce it and not allow it to go un-enforced. Which the fellow posters would really enjoy if the ship staff would do. I agree children should follow rules so if this is such a big thing the the ship staff should enforce it.

 

Geoffrey

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Sorry while I was reading over you post Middle-age-mom I noticed that club HAl contraticted themselves because of this statement:

 

Children must be accompanied and/or supervised by their parents at all times while in or around the ship's pools.

 

They say ship's pools not ship's pool. It can be seen by some parents as a loop hole for those parents that are that much into trying to break rules. However if it is rule to be followed then I think they should enforce it and not allow it to go un-enforced. Which the fellow posters would really enjoy if the ship staff would do. I agree children should follow rules so if this is such a big thing the the ship staff should enforce it.

 

Geoffrey

 

Yes, Geoffrey, I agree that the rules should be consistently applied, and not ambiguous. It serves no purpose to tell parents what the rules are, but then not enforce them. It's very confusing for everyone. I also like JTL's proposal to designate certain hours at the aft pool as "family time" and "quiet time". I can tell you from experience that the Lido pool is NEVER quiet, as all the eating, partying, and games go on there.

 

I will say that CLUB HAL does a good job, and offers LOTS of choices and activities for the youngsters onboard. Also, the crew go out of their way to accommodate children. My children were treated like royalty, and that's no exaggeration. I agree with you that HAL is working hard to become known as a family-friendly line.

 

Karin

[GPoll189]

Thanks, it is parents like you that give parents a good name and have well behaved children, even though we know children can act up from time to time. The rules set up but Club HAL and others that are set up for children are to protect them. They should be our most precious gifts we have.

 

When I finally have mine I will let them have their freedom but always have that leach to pull them back.

 

Geoffrey

[Brad98]

Hi all,

 

Can I just say that the Disney Cruiseline is obviously aimed at Children, but their ships also have an 'adults only' pool!

 

I have a son and we will abide by the aft pool rules, Nanny will look after him while I go for an adult only swim. It is so nice to have a relaxing swim without having an 8 year old hanging off you!!!! Regards Me

[jtl513]

... contraticted themselves because of this statement:

 

... while in or around the ship's pools.

 

They say ship's pools not ship's pool.

 

No contradiction. You can be around a pool without being in it.

[kryos]

By your logic, NO area of the ship should be off-limits to children at any time, including the Thermal Suites, hydrotherapy pool, bars, etc., as long as Mommy and Daddy are with them.

Exactly ... as long as those areas are "age appropriate" and the children are behaving according to the same expectations that would be applied to adults. Of course, I wouldn't expect to see children sitting in the lounges and bars ... or running around in the casino. Those areas are not what I would call "age appropriate." I also wouldn't expect to see toddlers running around the spa ... I'm talking teenagers here ... well behaved and under the supervision of a parent. If their parents are willing to pay for a spa pass for them, what's wrong with them using those facilities?

 

Last June was the first time in many years that we have not cruised while school was in session. We had little choice because certain itineraries simply aren't available in the off season. Because it was 10 days, and in Europe, requiring more expensive plane fare, few young kids were on board. But cruising in the off-season means we usually get stuck with less-than-the-best weather.

Oh, I don't know about that. I've always avoided kids, and I've also enjoyed reasonably good weather in most ports. The only time I had really bad weather, ironically enough, was the one Caribbean cruise I took on HAL in August/September of 2004. That was a disaster with two hurricanes chasing us all over the Atlantic.

 

Funny, I seem to run into them an awful lot. Obviously your tolerance level for rule breakers, be they children or adults, is much higher than mine.

No, trust me ... it's not. I am a single woman, early 50's. I've never had children of my own and, to be honest, loud, screaming, obnoxious children drive me up a wall. Those kids may actually be doing nothing wrong ... not misbehaving per se ... but the very act of them yelling and just "being children" sometimes drives me crazy. I don't relish paying good money for a cruise only to have to deal with that for a week or more ... like I had to on the first week of my Zuiderdam b2b in August 2004. While I can't honestly say any of those kids were "misbehaving," they were just driving me nuts by their sheer numbers. So now I just very, very carefully select my cruises ... and I've been very successful avoiding large groups of children. I think we had six kids on my last Amsterdam cruise, two kids on my January Hawaii/South Pacific cruise ... 9 kids on my April 2005 Island Princess cruise ... and something like ten kids on my January 2005 Sun Princess cruise. Those numbers are easy to deal with and allow me to have the cruise experience I am looking for too.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jtl513]

Well, Rita, I can see I'm not changing your mind any, and you still aren't changing mine! :D As the father of three daughters over a 4 year spread, I can tell you that sometimes it's nice to get to go to a place where kids aren't allowed besides the noisy casino or a place that costs extra money, like the spa.

 

As Brad98 just said

It is so nice to have a relaxing swim without having an 8 year old hanging off you!!!!

and with 95% or more of the pax being adults (and mostly senior citizens on HAL) I see nothing at all "wrong" or "unfair" with providing a pool that is a sanctuary from everybody's children!

 

Peace! :D

[kryos]

If a pool, or any area, is designated "adults only", why is there no signage?

Exactly.

 

And as long as there was no signage, if I had a child and wanted to use that pool, you'd better believe the little one would be in there with me, and too bad for anyone who didn't like it.

 

And, if there was signage, I wouldn't necessarily take the rule as law. I would certainly question it ... and advocate on behalf of my child if he wanted to use it.

 

Just because something is a rule doesn't mean it has to be taken without question. As I said before, if I pay good money for my child to have access to HAL facilities, if he is being denied that access, and I can't figure out a good reason why, you'd better believe I'd be questioning it ... all the way up to the Captain if necessary. The rule against babies in diapers in the pool ... okay, that I can understand. The rule against children swimming in the aft pool? Give me a good reason and I'll respect it. Frankly, I don't think HAL has one ... other than some older people don't want to be around children and want that aft pool declared a "child free zone." Well, gee ... isn't that just too bad? If the sailing is packed and the Lido pool is a mob scene, there's no good reason why a family shouldn't be able to move back to the aft pool which might be a bit less mobbed. Of course, again, this assumes the same standard of behavior from the children as the adults. Unruly children, frankly, shouldn't be allowed in either pool ... Lido or aft.

 

And, about that rule stating that children shouldn't sit in the first couple rows of the show lounge, that's another one I'd be questioning. If there was an act that I thought my child might enjoy, and he wanted to sit in the first couple of rows (maybe a magician and he's hoping to get picked to participate in one of the tricks), you'd better believe that if I could get him to the show lounge early enough to snag a seat in the first couple of rows, then he and I would be sitting there ... and I wouldn't hesitate to tell off anyone who tried to question his right to be there. Of course, understand ... this assumes my child was well-behaved and wouldn't do anything to disrupt the show or spoil the experience for other passengers. All I am saying is that a rule has to make sense ... from a safety or hygienic or other valid standpoint ... before I would just accept it without question. When someone takes my money ... including the money I pay for my hypothetical child to sail with me ... then I feel that child has certain rights ... and no one is going to take them away from him by instituting mindless rules ... unless they can satisfactorily justify the rule to me.

 

Now maybe the rule with the Crow's Nest is valid ... as some people have pointed out the good reasons for it ... but why children can't use one of the pools ... especially if the Lido area is very crowded ... is something I can't figure out. Why older children (teens) can't use the hydrotherapy room ... if, of course, their parents have paid for a pass for them and are willing to accompany them, is also something I don't understand. And, I'll tell you a little secret. I'm sure the reason you don't see teens in the hydro suite is precisely because of the cost. I'd be willing to bet most parents wouldn't be about to pay for a pass for their teen ... who might use it for an hour or so and then become bored with it. But, I'd also bet that if a parent approached the spa staff and wanted to pay for hydro pool passes for both herself and her teenaged daughter, I'd be shocked if the Greenhouse Spa would hesitate to accept her money. The way they work in that spa, believe me, they'd be taking that money so quick, and putting a little star on that teen's room card, it would make your head spin.

 

HAL is promoting themselves as a family friendly cruise line and they are trying to attract the family dollar. Well, they can't have it both ways. Either they are a family friendly line ... which means having equal access to recreational facilities for all members of the family capable of using them and wanting to enjoy them together ... or they should stick to marketing to the older set ... many of which don't want too many children around.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Well, Rita, I can see I'm not changing your mind any, and you still aren't changing mine! :D As the father of three daughters over a 4 year spread, I can tell you that sometimes it's nice to get to go to a place where kids aren't allowed besides the noisy casino or a place that costs extra money, like the spa.

Then we can just agree to disagree, and still be friends, right? :)

 

Yes, I agree with you. It is very nice to go somewhere without a bunch of screaming kids, and I make sure my cruises are as "child free" as possible by carefully booking them. But, if I happen to hit on a HAL cruise with a lot of kids onboard, well ... my dislike of being around children is my problem, not theirs ... and my wanting peace and quiet (which I do) should not infringe on their right to have a great cruise too ... and that means enjoying all of the facilities of the ship appropriate for their age ... including the pools. Like I said in another post, if HAL wants to put themselves out there as a "family friendly" line, and take the family dollar in order to fill cabins ... then they have to deliver, right? Can't have it both ways. And in the case of you and I ... well, HAL made their decision for the families ... and when the day comes that we are no longer getting our needs met on a HAL ship, then it's us that has to look elsewhere ... to a line that isn't actively soliciting the family dollar.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jtl513]

Then we can just agree to disagree, and still be friends, right? :)

 

Sure! That's what I meant by "Peace! :D " at the end of my last post! :)

[MBeamTX]

Other cruise lines manage to accommodate both children and adults. I'm told Disney is very good at entertaining children while providing adults-only havens. I've sailed Royal Caribbean and they have a wonderful adults-only pool area called the Solarium on most if not all of their ships. I do try to book cruises that are unlikely to attract large numbers of children, but why should anyone have to do that in order to get some quiet space?

 

Just because something is a rule doesn't mean it has to be taken without question. As I said before, if I pay good money for my child to have access to HAL facilities, if he is being denied that access, and I can't figure out a good reason why, you'd better believe I'd be questioning it ... all the way up to the Captain if necessary.

The reason why is so that they can offer a pleasant cruise experience to a broad spectrum of passengers. Mom and Dad with the kids at one pool, splashing up a storm; adults swimming laps or doing water aerobics at the other. Who says that your cruise fare gets you access to all facilities without limitation? I'm an adult. I don't get access to the teen Loft on the Vista ships. Is that fair? Sure, it is. It's a designated teen area. It's also fair to have designated adult areas.

 

If HAL can't get it together on designating and enforcing adults-only areas as they push to attract more families, then it's all the more reason for me to switch to another line that recognizes they need both markets and aim to please them both.

 

Happy cruising,

Susan

[GPoll189]

Come on guys!!! I am the one that started this heated debate so maybe I should try to end it the best I could.

 

On the first note one of the forum members posted the rules set forth by the Club HAL people and if I was a parent who went to a meeting that set fourth these rules I myself would follow them. However, if I was a parent with a child that didn't go to the first meeting how would I know that the Aft pool was off limits if there was no signage or staff inforcing the rules.

 

The aft pool no matter what you tell me is at least 50% quiter than the lido pool on a given day just because of the way it is built. However each of these pools can only fit a certain amount of passenger in them and also around them so if one is overloaded then there need to be someplace for the overflow to go and this usually happens on children rich sailings. I have to agree with you there should be times scheduled where a pool is used for water areboics or other healthy things. This world is becoming more and more overweight so excersing is the best thing we all could do.

 

As for the rule that no adults are allowed in the Club HAL area I have to agree with that. I am not saying any of you are like the sick people that are out there in the world who prey against children but you can't tell me that there aren't those type of people on the ships. How else are you going to keep the children safe when they are away at an activity.

 

When I was a child I always followed the rules aboard the ship. First of all they are set up for my protection. Second of all I am not the only one on vacation there are another 1,000 passengers on vacation. I know how much fun a vacation can be so why can't the other people have that. Third if I behaved maybe I would show my parents that I deserve more freedom on a future vacation. Fourth I love cruising and anything to do with HAL so why would I want to say anything bad about them. I want to be able to sell this line to other families, sorry old folks. :( LOL !

 

In closing I just want to say I am completely sorry to have started this debate I just wanted to know if there was signage that stated that the AFT pool was off limits. As everyone can see HAL is try to move towards families. I don't think this is a company plan but just the envirnoment that the crusining industry is going towards. More and more families are turning to sailing and that is were the money is the passengers that come aboard. I can bet you anything that the new Signature vessels will have more Club HAL activties and things aboard them. I remembered my first sailing as a 4 year old on the Noordam III and how much Club HAL has changed from then. Back then there was not even a name for the club and every age was grouped together.

 

Geoffrey

[JeriNP]

And as long as there was no signage, if I had a child and wanted to use that pool, you'd better believe the little one would be in there with me, and too bad for anyone who didn't like it. And, if there was signage, I wouldn't necessarily take the rule as law. I would certainly question it ... and advocate on behalf of my child if he wanted to use it.

Just because something is a rule doesn't mean it has to be taken without question. As I said before, if I pay good money for my child to have access to HAL facilities, if he is being denied that access, and I can't figure out a good reason why, you'd better believe I'd be questioning it ... all the way up to the Captain if necessary.

SO YOU'RE GOING TO TEACH THIS HYPOTHETICAL CHILD THAT THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO US IF WE DON'T UNDERSTAND OR AGREE WITH THEM? The Captain is responsible for the safety of everyone on the ship - he doesn't care (thank God) if somebody's kid is whining about not being allowed into the aft pool.

 

Rita, I cannot agree with you here. I do have a kid, and by following that logic to it's endpoint, I can then "advocate" for my husband being allowed into the teen girls' night in the lounge (he PAID for access to HAL's facilities, remember), and into my daughter being allowed to monopolize the video games in Club HAL with her friends - she's my CHILD (29 years old and she PAID for access to HAL's facilites), because they "want to". They should be allowed to go ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, right? I think I'll swing on down to the engine room and then up to the Bridge now, after all, I PAID to be on this ship, and no, Captain, I "don't understand" why I'm not allowed, so I'm just going to ignore your rules, okay with you? (I wonder if they still have a "brig" onboard these days...)

 

Our cruise contracts are actual legal documents wherein we agree to abide by both maritime law and by the rules set forth by HAL and by the ship's Captain and staff. Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I get to ignore the rules...and it's not good parenting to teach an attitude of entitlement or my-way-or-the-highway to kids. There are places for kids, there are places for adults, and there are places for families. Why is this such a difficult concept?

 

I, too, plan my cruises around avoiding little kids, precisely because so many parents take the kids with them and then proceed to ignore the rules, ignore the kids, then react defensively and with exactly that sense of "I paid to be here so screw everybody else" attitude, if, God forbid, some hapless member of the crew asks them to actually supervise their kids. Why do some passengers insist that rules and guidelines don't apply to them and/or to their kids?

 

HAL is providing ample facilities specifically designed for and geared towards kids and teens; they also provide ample facilities designed for and geared towards their adult customers. We just don't have to be thrown together at every juncture.

 

EVERYONE pays to be aboard. No one else's money is any greener than mine. Kids are there to have fun, and so am I...I don't barge into Club HAL, and they shouldn't barge into the adult pool.

[kryos]

SO YOU'RE GOING TO TEACH THIS HYPOTHETICAL CHILD THAT THE RULES DON'T APPLY TO US IF WE DON'T UNDERSTAND OR AGREE WITH THEM? The Captain is responsible for the safety of everyone on the ship - he doesn't care (thank God) if somebody's kid is whining about not being allowed into the aft pool.

 

...

 

EVERYONE pays to be aboard. No one else's money is any greener than mine. Kids are there to have fun, and so am I...I don't barge into Club HAL, and they shouldn't barge into the adult pool.

I never said we teach a child that the rules don't apply to them. I said that if we can't understand the logic or the rationale behind the rule, then we seek to obtain that understanding or try to have the rule changed. There is no reason why we should just accept any arbitrary rule solely on the basis that someone has made it a rule. Why is it a rule? If you can't explain the rationale behind it, then perhaps we need to talk about getting it changed. And, that is what I would be advocating for if that rule sought to bar my hypothetical child from an area of the ship that there was no good reason he should be barred from.

 

As for your comparison between the aft pool and barging into Club HAL ... come on ... that's an entirely different thing. Club HAL would not be an "age appropriate" venue for you, just as the bars and casino are not an age appropriate venue for the child. There is a good reason you can't hang out at the teens center. There is a good reason why those teens can't hang out in the casino. No one needs to explain that rule to either one of us. But there is quite a bit unclear with regard to the aft pool. First of all, is it truly off limits to kids? As I said, I haven't noticed any signage to that effect on my last couple of cruises. Others have stated the same. Could it be that maybe the aft pool was off limits to children in the past, but no more? First of all, I'd want to make sure that rule was even in effect currently. Secondly, I'd want to know why the rule was in place. If it's to prevent noisy kids from disrupting the solace of adults relaxing at the aft pool, then is there any reason why a couple of teens who just wanted to relax with their parents, read a good book, and perhaps take a dip in the pool could not do so? Maybe the "rule" is designed to keep the noise level in that area down. If so, a couple of 16 year olds who were behaving appropriately would not affect the noise level in that area and thus there is no reason they should be banned.

 

That's what I am getting at ... figure out the reason behind the rule ... and then see if it can be worked around to the satisfaction of everyone. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's just a matter of getting ahold of the right person to either get the rule changed, or have an exception to the rule granted. This is called effective negotiation skills ... and we see them in action everyday of our lives. No reason they can't work on a cruise ship too.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

There are places for kids, there are places for adults, and there are places for families. Why is this such a difficult concept?

And would not a swimming pool ... and family swim time ... be a place that both kids and adults should be welcome? I can't think of a more family-oriented place than the ship's swimming pools.

 

Now, if you're talking the show lounge ... maybe for some kids that would not be an appropriate place. If you're talking Club HAL, certainly that would not be a place for adults to hang around. If you're talking the casino, by all means children should not be permitted in there. But if you're talking about family-style activities, I can't think of anything more "family style" than mom, dad and the kids enjoying a lazy sea day out by the pool ... either the Lido or the aft one.

 

As I said before, what a lot of people are forgetting is that HAL has made a marketing decision to try to bring the family cruiser onboard. Their advertising material specifically goes after families by offering them great group deals for planning a family holiday onboard a HAL ship. Well, HAL can't have it both ways. If they want to portray themselves as a "family friendly" cruise line, then they can't bring those families onboard and then tell them, "oh, yeah ... but your kids can't sit with you in the first three rows of the theater ... even if they are quiet and well-behaved," or "if the Lido Pool is packed, tough. You'll have to make do with the Lido because the kids can't be back at the aft pool with you." Those policies are not family friendly, and for that reason I'd still like someone to tell me where the signage is that says that aft pool is off-limits to kids in the first place ... cause, to be honest, I can't recall ever seeing any ... at least on the Amsterdam.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RuthC]

Has society sunk so low that we can no longer be considerate of others simply because it's the right thing to do?

If HAL wants to let children have the Lido pool area (the preferable one, IMHO---near the burgers and fries), and leave the aft pool (you know, the one where it can rain, or be windy, or cold) for adults only why should that be a problem. After all, the object for the children is that they can swim. The object for some adults is that they be away from the children. By setting the "no children in the aft pool" rule both can be accommodated.

It sounds awfully selfish to say the children should be able to go wherever they wish just because they paid their fare. They are children! They don't get all the rights and privileges that adults do.

They also should be taught to think of others.

[JeriNP]

I never said we teach a child that the rules don't apply to them. I said that if we can't understand the logic or the rationale behind the rule, then we seek to obtain that understanding or try to have the rule changed. There is no reason why we should just accept any arbitrary rule solely on the basis that someone has made it a rule. Why is it a rule? If you can't explain the rationale behind it, then perhaps we need to talk about getting it changed. And, that is what I would be advocating for if that rule sought to bar my hypothetical child from an area of the ship that there was no good reason he should be barred from.

... This is called effective negotiation skills ...

 

...alternately, it can be called "bending the rules to suit me", but perhaps it's all just semantics.

 

Should children be allowed at the crew pool? For that matter, why can't we all use the crew pool if the others aren't to our liking?

 

No one drags anyone kicking and screaming aboard the ships...I'll again point out that we sign legally binding contracts acknowledging that a) there are rules, and b) we must follow them. I looked at my cruise documents and I can't find the paragraph where it says, "Please seek us out if you don't like the rules." The Captain is not concerned with who's using the pools. The crew is too busy working like mules to really care, either. Why would someone want to harrass a crew member into breaking a rule that's set in the company's home office? (One poster quoted from her Club HAL brochure regarding the aft pool - rules are set in the corporate office, not onboard.) If we don't like rules, then perhaps we shouldn't give the cruiseline our business. I'm fairly certain HAL's marketing strategy doesn't include alienating the company's traditional (and loyal) customers just to satisfy a few parents with an overactive sense of entitlement.

 

Whatever happened to explaining to kids that they don't always get their way? You said that you'd like to see the rule..."worked around to the satisfaction of everyone", but what it sounds like is "bent so that my kids can swim wherever they like". Just because you've brought your family onboard in response to an ad in the Sunday Travel section, doesn't mean that the rules should be changed. "Working around" a rule is a nice way of saying "breaking" that rule. The satisfaction of everyone? "EVERYONE" includes those passengers who would enjoy an adult pool. No one is saying that the kids can' swim anywhere. Kids have the larger pool available to them at all times, their Club HAL, their teen lounge. Why can't the adults have the same? Since when do kids have more rights than adults? I was raised that I'd have the same rights as adults...when I was an adult. Shocking nowadays, I know.

 

It's been my experience as both a teenager and the parent of one that when you're 16, the last place on earth you want to be is on vacation with your parents. I've yet to see any hanging around with Mom and Dad at the pool onboard a ship, reading quietly (!) and slipping silently into the water when they get too hot.

 

What I'm talking about is the splashing, screaming and general mayhem that go along with school age kids around any body of water.

[JeriNP]

Has society sunk so low that we can no longer be considerate of others simply because it's the right thing to do?

If HAL wants to let children have the Lido pool area (the preferable one, IMHO---near the burgers and fries), and leave the aft pool (you know, the one where it can rain, or be windy, or cold) for adults only why should that be a problem. After all, the object for the children is that they can swim. The object for some adults is that they be away from the children. By setting the "no children in the aft pool" rule both can be accommodated.

It sounds awfully selfish to say the children should be able to go wherever they wish just because they paid their fare. They are children! They don't get all the rights and privileges that adults do.

They also should be taught to think of others.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And, may I say, thank you.