Unfair Pricing Policy by Hal and price drops be informed (4 merged threads)

[NYreadytogo]

Yes, this is, indeed, a major PR debacle. My friend who does not cruise, and who did not know anything about HAL, but who knows that we cruise, called to tell me that they'd heard about this issue during the "Shame on You" segment of our local news (we're in NYC). Therefore, the first awareness of HAL by many in the general local population may be "that's the cruiseline that screwed over all those people, I'm not going to deal with them." That's unfortunate, but HAL brought it upon themselves.

 

Furthermore, as others indicated it's not like the "snafu" prices were unbelievably low, like that $1.85 air fare. It was on the low side- but still higher than what we paid for a comparable cruise and cabin last year on NCL Dawn. Therefore, even if it was below any normal HAL deal, one would not have to be inexperienced or deliberately obtuse to conclude that perhaps HAL simply had to lower their prices to compete with other lines in this current market, especially as the Noordam sailings are not filling up. Yes, it was a good deal, but not too good to be true. In fact, I just checked the prices on our sailing on 1/6/07, and the current rates at one large internet TA are almost as low as the "snafu" rates. They're now only charging about $100 more per cabin in the lowest category than they did at the "snafu" rates. Therefore, it is clear that after the final payment date, HAL saw that the ship was not filling up, and decided to drop prices in order to encourage more people to sail. It's really too bad that they couldn't just eat what ultimately is ending up being only a small difference, honored the snafu, and treated the resulting costs as the price necessary to run a good PR campaign. Who knows, that might have encouraged more people to book with them, resulting in fuller ships and more revenue in the long run.

[NYreadytogo]

HAL obviously screwed up big on this one- and seems to continue mishandling the situation, based on the last poster's experience- where they are still now, almost 2 months later, still screwing over customers that fell victim to their mistake. It is, indeed, a major PR debacle.

 

As I said n a different post, my friend who does not cruise, and who did not know anything about HAL, but who knows that we cruise, called to tell me that they'd heard about this issue during the "Shame on You" segment of our local news (we're in NYC). Therefore, the first awareness of HAL by many in the general local population may be "that's the cruiseline that screwed over all those people, I'm not going to deal with them." That's unfortunate, but HAL brought it upon themselves.

 

Furthermore, as others indicated it's not like the "snafu" prices were unbelievably low, like that $1.85 air fare. It was on the low side- but still higher than what we paid for a comparable cruise and cabin last year on NCL Dawn. Therefore, even if it was below any normal HAL deal, one would not have to be inexperienced or deliberately obtuse to conclude that perhaps HAL simply had to lower their prices to compete with other lines in this current market, especially as the Noordam sailings are not filling up. Yes, it was a good deal, but not too good to be true. In fact, I just checked the prices on our sailing on 1/6/07, and the current rates at one large internet TA are almost as low as the "snafu" rates. They're now only charging about $100 more per cabin in the lowest category than they did at the "snafu" rates. Therefore, it is clear that after the final payment date, HAL saw that the ship was not filling up, and decided to drop prices in order to encourage more people to sail. It's really too bad that they couldn't just eat what ultimately is ending up being only a small difference, honored the snafu, and treated the resulting costs as the price necessary to run a good PR campaign. Who knows, that might have encouraged more people to book with them, resulting in fuller ships and more revenue in the long run.

 

Good luck to anyone who is still trying to sort out the issue.

[jtl513]

Clearly the person(s) who posted the low prices and those who didn't catch it for 6 weeks (or whatever) should get the axe, but most importantly the idiots who decided not to honor the contracts should be shown the door too! :)

[waunabcruizin]

I'm not a HAL cruiser, though until this pricing error occurred I was a HAL wannabe. Are there not laws in the USA that protect against 'bait and switch'? Is this situation grounds for a law suit?? What would prevent any other cruise line, or HAL again, for that matter, from using this tactic anytime it wanted to? Seems to me if you pay for something, the seller marks the invoice 'paid in full' (or gives an invoice showing a down payment and a balance due of some amount), the seller must complete the transaction as originally contracted. What the heck gives here? Any attorneys on here with an opinion???

[sirarthur]

Yes it is called breach of contract. Perhaps one could sue for specific performance if they had made their payment. Prior to doing that (acceptance), they can recind their "offer" But who is going to sue over a few hundred dollars.

[torpeedo]

Wow, did anyone go to the Gene's cruise blog noted at the end of USA Today's article?? If I were HAL, I would take a good look at that and try to make ammends with the parties who were caught in HAL's mistake.. I would always wonder now if I booked a cruise that was a "good" deal, would it be too good? Would I have to pony up a bunch more $$ if HAL decides it's too good? I don't know....:rolleyes:

[hammybee]

I am not a lawyer.

 

The terms and conditions of all cruise lines gives the cruise line the ability to change price up to the point of departure. Outside of port charges and taxes for which no cruise line has control, I do not recall a situation where by a cruise line did not honor the quoted price. In fact, as we all know, it is far more common for a cruise line to honor subsequent price reductions which they clearly are not obligated to do.

 

My best guess is that this pricing error probably carried a $1MM+ tag and HAL chose to not eat it. It gives a black eye to the entire industry because most cruising wannabes do not distingusih between cruise lines. They worry about balcony fires, listing and MIA passengers and maybe now, the perception that the price quoted may not be the price you have to pay.

 

I think this situation has the potential to be a catalyst for change in the way cruise lines administer cruise bookings. It would not come as a surprise to me to see Carnival centralize all reservations and go the route of airlines and so many hotels and offer a best price guarantee. Cruising is too big of an industry now to operate as disjointed as they do.

 

In hindsight, HAL probably could have garnered more than it lost, in free PR, if they had announced the error and that they were honoring the quoted prices, regardless of the cost to the company.

 

In the end, the passengers who were surprised when they learned of the pricing error were dissappointed. They did not suffer a financial loss or physical hardship. There is precedent that when a passenger booked and paid for air travel, at the time of initial booking, for some wiggle room for additional compensation.

 

The real shame is that it appears that HAL's intent was to sweep this under the carpet and they have clearly been busted.

[RuthC]

Are there not laws in the USA that protect against 'bait and switch'?

It's inaccurate to call this a "bait and switch", as that was not the case.

The was a brief period when there was an error in the pricing for several cruises on one ship. The error was that two discounts were applied to the calculation when there should only have been one.

When the error was discovered it was corrected in the computer programming. The error was in place for about 4-5 days and many people booked during that time frame.

Unfortunately, the fact that there had been an error, the nature of the error, and the correct amount of the fare was not communicated to those who had booked in a timely manner.

 

There are a few threads detailing the story. You might want to wade through them to get a fuller feel for what went/is going on. It can be termed many things, but not "bait and switch".

[RuthC]

Clearly the person(s) who posted the low prices and those who didn't catch it for 6 weeks (or whatever) should get the axe,

Six weeks? Where are you ever getting the idea that the incorrect price wasn't caught for six weeks! It was corrected in 4-5 days. That's a HUGE difference from 6 weeks.

The fact that there was an error in booking price wasn't communicated to some of the prospective passengers for six weeks, but that's not at all the same thing.

There's plenty to get indignant about in this entire matter, but please get indignant over the right thing.

[bdcbbq]

I've got writer's block because I'm so stunned that a person can make a decision like this and not see the expected fallout. Its not like the amount of money would make HAL go bankrupt. Even with the pricing error, I'm sure the cruise would have at least broke even. They would have recouped a significant portion losses of their pricing mistake in onboard spending.

[jvermonttravel]

Sorry, I just noticed two typos in my lengthy missive above...

 

The TA sent me confimations 9/11 and 9/18 (not 9/8 and 9/12 as it says there).

[waunabcruizin]

It's inaccurate to call this a "bait and switch", as that was not the case.

 

The was a brief period when there was an error in the pricing for several cruises on one ship. The error was that two discounts were applied to the calculation when there should only have been one.

When the error was discovered it was corrected in the computer programming. The error was in place for about 4-5 days and many people booked during that time frame.

 

Unfortunately, the fact that there had been an error, the nature of the error, and the correct amount of the fare was not communicated to those who had booked in a timely manner.

 

There are a few threads detailing the story. You might want to wade through them to get a fuller feel for what went/is going on. It can be termed many things, but not "bait and switch".

 

I have read the threads and I do know what went/was going on, but I maintain that if a company advertises a price then refuses to honor it, it is a 'bait and switch' - no matter how they may try to justify their new price. Even if it's an honest error (computer or otherwise), I think the company is required to honor the advertised price. If I'm wrong and it's caveat emptor regardless, then what is to prevent anyone from changing the price of anything after an agreement is made and claiming, 'oh, it was an honest error and you now owe us more money'. I don't think so......

[bdcbbq]

I have read the threads and I do know what went/was going on, but I maintain that if a company advertises a price then refuses to honor it, it is a 'bait and switch' - no matter how they may try to justify their new price. Even if it's an honest error (computer or otherwise), I think the company is required to honor the advertised price. If I'm wrong and it's caveat emptor regardless, then what is to prevent anyone from changing the price of anything after an agreement is made and claiming, 'oh, it was an honest error and you now owe us more money'. I don't think so......

 

Bait and switch is an intentional advertising effort that is used to lure customers in and sell a higher profit item. In no way is making an error in pricing bait and switch. Although, HAL definitely could have handled this situation better.

[Richard Stein]

I have a red pin with HAL and got a good deal on a suite on the Oosterdam last may and then I met a couple from Arkansas that booked 30 days out and got the same suite in a flash sale for $250 per person less than I paid. They showed me the invoice. No comment from the PR people at HAL afterwards. With HAL let the buyer beware.

[stuNYC]

I ju. Ireturned from a 11 night western carribbean cruise on the Constellation. I booked it a week before departure because of the extraordinary low price of $2000 for an assigned verrandah cabin. I don't know what the regular price was but I got a 55+ fare.

 

I am sailing on the Noordam on December 6 for 10 day eastern caribbean cruise for twice that amount in a SS cabin.

 

My wife is in a wheelchair and the closest cabin to midship was ALL the way forward, which meant that I had to wheel her the length of the ship four times a day.

 

My HAL cabin was booked months ago and the cabin is midship.

 

Each time I wheeled my wife I wondered whether I really did get a bargain or if I would have enjoyed the cruise more if we had a midship cabin location.

 

As others before me have said, there is a trade off.

 

While I was away my TA called me regarding upgrades at a really nominal cost of $500 on a first come first serve basis. I haven't been able to call her and find out the location of these cabins. But obviously they were not sold out at the upper end, otherwise they wouldn't be willing to offer the upgrade.

 

There is definitely more capacity in November and December leaving from NY than demand. The Constellation was only 75% full and had a severe case of noroviris on the preceding sailing. Fortunately, Celebrity did a wonderful job of containing it and we didn't get sick. If we did, it certainly wouldn't have been worth 1 cent, let alone $2000.

[hammybee]

If I'm wrong and it's caveat emptor regardless, then what is to prevent anyone from changing the price of anything after an agreement is made and claiming, 'oh, it was an honest error and you now owe us more money'. I don't think so......

 

If you care to read the terms and conditions of booking for any cruise line, you will find that they all have the right to change the price. That is the agreement made when booking. You would be amazed at the fine print in any cruise document or land tour, for that matter.

 

This does not mean I agree with how this whole deal was handled.

[hammybee]

I have a red pin with HAL and got a good deal on a suite on the Oosterdam last may and then I met a couple from Arkansas that booked 30 days out and got the same suite in a flash sale for $250 per person less than I paid. They showed me the invoice. No comment from the PR people at HAL afterwards. With HAL let the buyer beware.

 

This happens all the time, on all cruise lines, when they need to fill the ship. Those that live within driving distance of port often take spur of the moment cruises because the prices can't be beat.

 

The same thing happens with land tours. Many companies exist for the sole purpose of selling last minute hotel rooms. And I get my weekly email from AA and UAL telling me of last minute flight specials.

 

And then there are material goods that go on sale, usually after I paid full price.

 

We all have to decide if the certainty and peace of mind that comes with planning a cruise is worth the potential cost savings of waiting till closer to sail date to book a cruise. Cruises can and do sell out in a heart-beat and one is apt to be dissappointed if waiting for the best price, cause the ship is going to leave with someone else in your cabin. Now that would be a darn shame.

[hammybee]

I have a red pin with HAL and got a good deal on a suite on the Oosterdam last may and then I met a couple from Arkansas that booked 30 days out and got the same suite in a flash sale for $250 per person less than I paid. They showed me the invoice. No comment from the PR people at HAL afterwards. With HAL let the buyer beware.

 

 

Me again and on a roll......

 

Another way to look at it is that a cabin, an airline seat, a hotel room or place on a land tour is a commodity with a market value that changes according to supply and demand. Have you ever made a financial investment and watched the price of the stock fall, almost from the moment you purchased it? Or conversely, have you sold too soon and watched the price continue to rise, knowing you were no longer in the game?

 

I do not understand the facination with what the next guy paid. The only thing you will ever know is that someone paid more and someone paid less than you did. And none of this is unique to HAL or cruising in general. Stop worrying about this and go make happy memories on a cruise.

[JLC@SD]

Me again and on a roll......

I do not understand the facination with what the next guy paid. The only thing you will ever know is that someone paid more and someone paid less than you did. And none of this is unique to HAL or cruising in general. Stop worrying about this and go make happy memories on a cruise.

amen............I can not believe how some people get so worked up about the fact that someone may have paid less............and if they do not get the same price..............they are being cheated.

 

Just as in airlines..............cruises sell at different prices......to different people at different times...............book it an be happy.....:)

[Navy_Chief]

......I am sailing on the Noordam on December 6 for 10 day eastern caribbean cruise for twice that amount in a SS cabin.....

 

Not to get off point, stuNYC, we do have rather a large group of CC'ers on our Roll Call for this sailing. Your more than welcome to join us if you'd like. There is a CC Meet n Greet on the 7th at 2PM in the Explorer's Lounge as well. So far about 75 people have been confirmed. Please feel free to join us even if you don't log into the Roll Call.

 

Apologies for the minor interuption to the thread.

 

-Bob

[RevNeal]

I have a red pin with HAL and got a good deal on a suite on the Oosterdam last may and then I met a couple from Arkansas that booked 30 days out and got the same suite in a flash sale for $250 per person less than I paid. They showed me the invoice. No comment from the PR people at HAL afterwards. With HAL let the buyer beware.

 

I'm not sure I "get" the problem. You state, upfront, that you got a "good deal" in your booking. So ... if you got a "good deal," why would it matter that someone else -- in a "last minute" flash sale -- received a better deal? When I obtain what I believe to be a "great deal," I'm usually pleased. If someone else gets a better deal, but in circumstances that are less preferable to mine, I'm usually not bothered by it. I would rather book well in advance, choose my cabin, have months to pay the cruise off and plan for it, than to book within the penalty period, not get my pick of cabins, and have to pay for the cruise all at once.

 

But ... that's just me. Other people have different opinions and priorities.

[Randyk47]

We rarely, if ever, look back with any regret or concern on our fares. Typically we book a year or so out and by doing so have pretty much got as good of a fare as possible. I don't recall any time that the fare we've paid has gone down, and I do watch, so maybe I'd react differently if that had happened. I don't really worry about what folks paid for a cabin at the last moment. We can't do that, we must plan and schedule our vacations because of work and, barring the unforeseen, we pretty much are held to our schedule. That really takes the "flash/fire sales" out of our options. So somebody else can take advantage? Sure, that's the way it is. Would I expect some kind of compensation if our cabin got significantly reduced after we were locked in? Maybe but I'm not ruining our cruise worrying about what the other guy paid. Life is too short...... :)