Itinerary Change - Zuiderdam

[Beckey]

I just received a fax from HAL regarding the itinerary for the Zuiderdam beginnning with the July 31 cruise through Oct. 23, 2004.

Several of you had mentioned this but I don't think any one had a definate answer - so here it is straight from the horses mouth :eek:

Saturday, Sunday and Monday remain the same "NO CHANGE"

 

Tuesday is NOW Road Town - 7:00am till 6:00pm

Wednesday NOW St. Thomas - 7:00am till 6:00pm

 

Thursday friday and Saturday remain the same "NO CHANGE"

Read it and weep folks!

 

I will be sailing on the Zuiderdam 9/11 and have been trying to get fellow cruisers to come join us on the ROLL CALL board but have not had much success - SO MAYBE NOW you guys will come join our discussion. :cool:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=25369&page=1&pp25

[superstein61]

Well I thought my email from HAl Customer Relatiosn was definitive - but I know some folks still doubted it because they would call and be told no change. however, your fax verifies what they told me in my email.

 

Darn shame

[Cookwise]

Hello Beckey,

Thanks for posting your HAL fax. Very helpful. It is interesting that they stated the itinerary change is through Oct 23rd. A member on another thread posted a copy of a HAL email that stated the change will be for the rest of the year. I'm interested since I will be on the Nov 6th "Z" sailing. I wonder which is reality? It certainly seems to change from day to day! :confused:

[MandyGirl]

Cookwise -

 

Same thoughts here... we are on the Nov 20 Zui sailing and had also read the HAL email posting of "through the end of the year". This new email of through Oct 23 gives me HOPE!! But I know not to believe a thing until the exact week I am on the ship....

[Lois R]

Hi Beckey:) one of your cruisemates here...I must be the only person that is not upset by this change......

Sorry it is affecting so many of you though......

[MandyGirl]

Lois -

 

I think those that are concerned by the shortened times in port are most likely those who:

1) enjoy spending St Thomas port day over at St John... and were looking forward to not having to rush back in mid-afternoon

(ferry schedules / traffic at that time of day of everyone getting back to ships; we no longer consider spending the day on St Thomas after having vacationed on St John)

2) booked this itinerary because it is the only itinerary on the market with more than 11 hours in port for St Thomas during the times people could cruise (I'm a teacher and am limited to holidays or summers when I'm not doing additional training)

3) prefer not going through Immigration during the middle of the cruise - adding Immigration to St Thomas now takes away even more time for the newly shortened port time in St Thomas / St John

(because of the switch and now coming from the BVI; otherwise if St Thomas is before Tortola, no Immigration to deal with; on our Maasdam cruise last Thanksgiving, Immigration at the port Key West took 2 extra hours out of our scheduled port time which was already short to begin with)

4) book their shore excursions independently

(and in my case, I can't book my wedding cake through HAL since I am going through the same chef we used for our wedding on St John, so switching days causes more work on my behalf to coordinate picking it up on St John before returning to our wedding beach; also, we must change around our daysail out of Tortola if port days change)

 

There might be other reasons, but these are the four primary reasons we were concerned by the swtiching/shortening of ports. Plus, different departments at HAL seem to be stating different things (Oct 23 communication versus "end of year" communication; so some of us may not know if there is truly a switch until we board). But for those who booked the cruise based on the extra long time in St Thomas, it is concerning, and apparently HAL has known for weeks (or months) this change was coming but still left the official itinerary the same while new bookings were being made. Seems to be false advertisement. That dishonesty is what is so questionable - why change the last five eastern itineraries and just now begin stating that there will be a change?

I'll be on the cruise and be happy anyway! :)

[Nebraska Admiral]

LOIS

I am with you. My cruise is 8-14 and I am not concerned about the change. There is nothing we can do about it. I am going for the CRUISE!!! and will not let changes upset me or ruin my positive attitude. I do understand the frustration of those who were counting on a late departure on St Thomas, but for me it will give me more time to lose at the casino.

Dick

[dbrady]

something you guys should remmber is that the stop used to be 7am-6pm,so its going back to normal.

[Lois R]

:) Hi Mandy...I wasn't critisizing anyone who is upset....just making a comment that It doesn't affect me...

I understand the reasons;) ......fortunetly, they have no bearing on my cruise.

I am sorry the schedule for the wedding cake is bad now....hopefully things will work out for you anyway. And congratulations too:D

[Cruising since '81]

MandyGirl,

I have been to St. Thomas before (after San Juan) on a cruise and had to go through immigration before leaving the ship in St. Thomas. It was very fast. It took approximately 10 minutes. Since we will be visiting the Bahamas (Half Moon Cay) which is not a U. S. territory; again, we would have to do immigration (whether or not Tortolas comes first). Ask anyone that has been to St. Thomas. Everyone on cruisecritic (that I have read) states there is an immigration check before you enter.

I understand your other reasons for being upset with the change in itinerary, but things do change. I called and talked to a reservationist in Holland America. He, at first, stated there was no change. I asked him to talk to his supervisor, and then, he stated he was upset that he wasn't informed of this change. So, yes, there are some communication problems with the itinerary change. I think Holland America needs to change their itinerary online immediately.

As cruzlover56 stated on her "live from Zuiderdfam", the reason for the change is because now we don't have to tender in (takes 20 minutes each way), and now we will be the only ship in port (July and August, at least).

In Conde Nast Traveler magazine (this month's issue), they state that St. Thomas can only handle 8,000 people (The Navigator of the Seas-ship I was on-holds around 3,000). When it gets over that amount, there is too long a wait in shops, and it is too crowded on the beach. I think that St. Thomas is now regulating what ships can come to port which day.

I hope you have time for the St. John's excursion. When we last went to St. Thomas, many people went to St. Johns, and they had more than enough time to spend the day there (if they scheduled the trip on their own). Hopefully, the Zuiderdam docks early, and immigration is at 6:45a.m. (like previous messages). Then, maybe you will be able to leave at 7:00a.m., instead of 8:00 a.m. That will give you an extra hour earlier in the day.

I, too, was at first upset about the possibility of the itinerary change. Once the itinerary change was confirmed, I emailed and changed my two trips. Now, I feel comfortable knowing, in advance, of the change, and I am happy to be able to visit the two islands.

On our Explorer of the Seas cruise in January 2004, we bypassed the Grand Cayman Islands because of supposedly rough seas. However, I found our that three ships did go there, including the Navigator of the Seas from Honeysuckle Horsebackriding (I had scheduled an excursion with them that day).

 

So, I conclude, itinerary changes can be made, but, you are correct, Holland America needs to notify all of it's cruisers now, not just three days before the trip (or on the trip).:) ;) :) ;)

[Tatka]

I don't remember any time consuming immigration process during my last year Century cruise. Our next port after St.Thomas was St.Maartin which of course doesn't belong to US.

[ekerr19]

We had lengthy immigration delays on our April cruise on the Maasdam. We were only in San Juan 1/2 a day, by the time we cleared immigration it was almost half over.

 

Some people were apparently confused and did not attend immigration and had to be repeatedly called to report to immigration authorities...

 

This was the first time we've ever experienced such a lengthy delay.

[MandyGirl]

Tatka -

I was just going off of our experience on HAL Maasdam Thanksgiving cruise last year - clearing Immigration in Key West. It took an extra two hours out of our already short port time for that day. We've cleared Immigration in St Thomas/ St John before and had no problems like you (March 2003). Once a drawn-out-Immigration-process happens to you though, it can be concerning for future cruises.

Cruising since '81 -

I must have been given misinformation regarding Immigration on St Thomas. On another thread, a poster had stated they did not have to clear Immigration for St Thomas on Zuiderdam after coming from HMC, but the change would now cause Immigration on St Thomas. Sorry for relaying incorrect info. As long as I am not sitting two hours (past port time) on the ship waiting for three cabins to get their faces before Immigration, then I'm cool. I'm just one of those people who shows up for Immigration on time as instructed. We cleared immigration that day in Key West 45 minutes prior to scheduled time to disembark, and still didn't get off the ship until 2 hours after that scheduled time due to a few cabins not showing up (they were paged repeatedly overhead).

Also, for our specific cruise (this Thanksgiving), we will have at least two (or three) other ships in port for St Thomas on both Tuesday or Wednesday according to other ship itineraries online. (I had looked these up a few days ago and posted on another thread) The Caribbean tends to pick up after October when ships are repositioned after Panama canal cruises back to the Caribbean, although it would be awesome to be the ONLY ship in port in St Thomas like you're getting!!:)

I would totally understand rough seas. That is unexpected. But changing ports and not notifying passengers until after embarking the cruise is what concerns me, especially when websites like ***** show the swap in their expected ships in port weeks in advance. Those things probably have to be planned ahead... and if HAL has swapped ports you would think that would be communicated somehow or at least update the website for that week's cruise.

I understand changes can be made (all the fine print) but I am just not pleased with the lack of communication when changes are most likely made ahead of time. Once you know a change in ports, change it on your company's website. Weather happens and that is totally understandable if that is a cause.

dbrady -

I had not ever seen those port times you stated for the week I booked. Of course I didn't start looking (or book) until June, but during that time, it always showed 8A-11P for the week of Thanksgiving (and still does). Thanks for sharing that the times for that week had previously been shorter, as I had not seen that when researching/booking my cruise last month.

Sorry if I sound negative. It's just frustrating to book a cruise because it's the only one during my school break with such an awesome port time for the island I love dearly... and then read week after week of itinerary changes and swaps... and hear from fellow CC members of contradictory information given by various departments of the true itinerary. I would just expect that if there is a change in schedule (not due to weather, mechanical, etc) that it would be communicated effectively, especially in this technological age of email/internet websites. Regardless, I will enjoy the cruise and be happy (like I stated earlier). :) I know once on board, it will be a wonderful week and HAL will "wow" us once again like the terrific week we had last year on Maasdam!

[gizmo]

Here is my war story about clearing immigration at St.Thomas. This was the cruise I mentioned recently that Hal reversed the itinerary.

 

St.Thomas was packed and we anchored. We must have been last on immigration's list but they boarded late. They would not clear the ship until everyone reported and this took forever. The first tender did not leave until 10:15 - 10:30. We had been anchored in the inner harbor since before 7:00 AM.

Talk about angry pax! What ticked me off was, if we had kept to the regular schedule we would not have anchored. I checked the vi web site and the number of ships in the orginal day was much lower.

[Giorgi-one]

Immigration check is done on the ship. Every person has to present themselves with a passport or birth certificate / photo ID in one of the lounges starting at 7 AM. They call one deck at a time beginning at the bottom. Takes less than one half hour and only complaint is loss of sleep. However, if you are planning on going to St. John, you need to be up early anyhow. If you get an early breakfast and catch an early Ferry to St. John, you will have plenty of time on the beach there.

[MandyGirl]

Giorgi-one: do you have to wait until the ENTIRE ship has cleared Immigration before ANYONE can disembark? (like we had to do in Key West last year on Maasdam) Or can you begin disembarking after you have personally cleared Immigration?

I certainly don't mind getting up early (normally at the gym at 5A)- just mind it when I'm on time and three cabins decide to hold the rest of the ship up from disembarking, cutting into 1800 passengers' time in port (and crew members on their day off).

[Giorgi-one]

You have to wait for everyone. Disembarkation begain around 9 AM. I think this is about the same for any port where the local authorities take about 2 hours to clear the ship.

[joerey]

For all of you who are upset about Hal's change. Instead of going to St. Johns which is a pain on a cruise, catching the frerry from red hook and then taxis to Trunk bay. Do yourself a favor. when you get off the ship grab a taxi to Magens Bay its $18.00 and just as breathtaking as Trunk Bay :)

[MandyGirl]

Thanks... someone on another thread had said they received a card at Immigration, could immediately disembark, but could not re-board until all had cleared Immigration at St Thomas. It seems to vary I guess. :confused:

[MandyGirl]

joeyrey - Already been to Magen's. Our desire to return to St John is to return to the wedding beach we married on and share a small wedding cake made by the same chef. May sound cheesy, but we realllly want to return to our wedding beach, which is on St John.

 

We've also taken a land vacation on St John and there are many beaches there we also enjoy visiting - just incredible. (We avoid Trunk due to too many people and go to less-touristy beaches on St John).

[superstein61]

As cruzlover56 stated on her "live from Zuiderdfam", the reason for the change is because now we don't have to tender in (takes 20 minutes each way), and now we will be the only ship in port (July and August, at least).

 

This is still BS from HAL for 2 reasons:

 

1. There will be only 3 ships in port on Tuesdays - the original schedule. The Z would be the fourth - and I believe St Thomas has docking accomodations for at least 4 ships (they have more than one cruise dock). During the winter - they can have 8 ships in port - so this argument from HAL holds no water. With 4 ships - no tendering would be required - that is an outright lie by HAL if they are saying that.

 

2. HAL knew about the ships calling on St Thomas months ago. It was not an issue then. They continued to sell this cruise under false pretenses.

 

Again - with only 4 ships - the Z would not have to use tenders. That is incorrect info

[superstein61]

I must have been given misinformation regarding Immigration on St Thomas. On another thread, a poster had stated they did not have to clear Immigration for St Thomas on Zuiderdam after coming from HMC, but the change would now cause Immigration on St Thomas. Sorry for relaying incorrect info.

 

Mandy - actually I believe that info is not incorrect. I could be wrong but it was explained to me that HAL did not have to clear immigration in St Thomas coming from HMC since HMC was HAL's private Island - and the stop before that was a US port.

[superstein61]

For all of you who are upset about Hal's change. Instead of going to St. Johns which is a pain on a cruise, catching the frerry from red hook and then taxis to Trunk bay. Do yourself a favor. when you get off the ship grab a taxi to Magens Bay its $18.00 and just as breathtaking as Trunk Bay :)

 

Sorry - been there - done that. While Magens Bay may be nice - but St Johns was the reason for choosing this itinerary

[gizmo]

MandyGirl,

 

You are correct. The immigration info about St. Thomas varies. Sometimes you can go through immigration then leave the ship. Other times everyone must go through before the ship is cleared. Why it is handled different is beyond me but the immigration people are in charge, so if they want to hold the entire ship back they do. I have done it both ways.

 

If you are coming from HMC you have to go through immigration in St.Thomas.

HMC is not US territory, thus you are coming from a foreign port. I went from Ft.Lauderdale, to HMC, to PR. We had to go through immigration.

[srpilo]

Sorry - been there - done that. While Magens Bay may be nice - but St Johns was the reason for choosing this itinerary

Exactly !

 

Srpilo

 

Btw.. Enjoy yourself next week, and try and make the best of it (itinerary) .