peaches from georgia Posted September 28, 2007 #176 Share Posted September 28, 2007 And there was not a cruise ship leaving out of Ft. Lauderdale in which he could do this??:rolleyes: Some of us enjoy the sea days and sailing out of NYC.. We are just asking for one ship.. Florida already has enough choices IMO.. Bulldog I can understand, but the problem obviously is that just not enough people enjoyed 4 or so cold days with usually rough seas just to get to the Caribbean and back from NY. The Noordam is too big a ship to fill not to have to reduce cruise fares to get enough people to book it from NY and a smaller ship cannot meet the time schedule through rough seas and winds. (Same problem with Norfolk during the winter.) You can't blame HAL for changing to a more profitable route and you can't blame the people in the NY area who don't want to fly for being disappointed. There just weren't enough of them. There is no right or wrong, so there should be no arguement. I'm located right in the middle and like cruising from both locations. But since I won't fly, would I drive to FL in the winter to take the Noordam- yes. Would I drive to NY in the winter for this cruise- no. It's JMHO that HAL had to do what it had to do and there's nothing more to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #177 Share Posted September 28, 2007 And there was not a cruise ship leaving out of Ft. Lauderdale in which he could do this??:rolleyes: Some of us enjoy the sea days and sailing out of NYC.. We are just asking for one ship.. Florida already has enough choices IMO.. Bulldog If you check out the Maasdam for 2008 -- there is a cruise that has several sea days: Ft Lauderdale HMC At Sea St Thomas Dominica At Sea Curaco Aruba At Sea At Sea Ft lauderdale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innlady1 Posted September 28, 2007 #178 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Sheila, how do you find out which cabins are available by looking at the website? Where on the website do you go? There isn't an easy way, Carol. I "pretended" I was booking, and got the page where you select a cabin. Plug in the one you wish to have, it will tell you that cabin is unavailable or not. If it's unavailable, plug in another, until you find the one you want. I plugged in 7188, found it was still available, and emailed our TA requesting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #179 Share Posted September 28, 2007 We are very happy that HAL has made the decision to move the Noordam to Ft Lauderdale. Maybe we will even book a cruise on her in 2009. From what I see, or maybe I didn't see right on HAL's website, the Noordam's 2009 cruises look exactly like those of the Maasdam's 2008 schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innlady1 Posted September 28, 2007 #180 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I can understand, but the problem obviously is that just not enough people enjoyed 4 or so cold days with usually rough seas just to get to the Caribbean and back from NY. The Noordam is too big a ship to fill not to have to reduce cruise fares to get enough people to book it from NY and a smaller ship cannot meet the time schedule through rough seas and winds. (Same problem with Norfolk during the winter.) You can't blame HAL for changing to a more profitable route and you can't blame the people in the NY area who don't want to fly for being disappointed. There just weren't enough of them. There is no right or wrong, so there should be no arguement. I'm located right in the middle and like cruising from both locations. But since I won't fly, would I drive to FL in the winter to take the Noordam- yes. Would I drive to NY in the winter for this cruise- no. It's JMHO that HAL had to do what it had to do and there's nothing more to be said. Our cruise last winter on the Noordam was sold out. I understood that was the usual case on the Noordam cruises from NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #181 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Travelocity lists some of the cains that are available. I have never been able to get them to list all of the ones we are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #182 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Shelia, I am not picking bones here. I understand the dissappointment and the need to blow off steam. I do not however, understand the sense of urgency. These cruises are a year or more into the future, not this weekend. I just don't get it.:confused: And I would feel the same way regardless of cruise line. I think the sense of urgency is the 10/12 deadline for a decision. Some people travel with groups and group decisions take time. If part of the traveling group is away (and I believe that is the situation for one of the travelers on these boards), then the time is almost gone by when they return. Researching additional costs (such as flights/changed flights, hotels, car rentals, extra time off from work) and if one can afford to continue to go on the cruise if they are on a limited budget, can take a bit of time to figure it out. Obviously, this is just my opinion, however, I see it with my own parents who do not use computers and rely on me for all pricing information. If I'm away on business or cruising, they won't make a decision. So, if I was on my cruise right now, they would (a) still not know from HAL about the change :rolleyes: and (b) would be down to limited time once I returned to make a decision (and, the added stress of me trying to figure their cruising out plus dealing with my own life). I've had itineraries changed on me over the years and normally notification came in a letter with any options that would be offered (and I've been given up to 30 days to make a decision). I'm certain HAL could have just mailed letters to the passengers booked and then dealt with the situation in an orderly fashion. It's the lack of information and conflicting information coming from Seattle that appears to be frustrating many of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches from georgia Posted September 28, 2007 #183 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Our cruise last winter on the Noordam was sold out. I understood that was the usual case on the Noordam cruises from NYC. I know, innlady, but at what prices? Evidently from everything known by posters who check cruise fares, HAL had to heavily discount from NY and don't have to do this as much when sailing from FL. And apparently fuel costs are higher sailing 4 days in the north Atlantic than in the calmer Caribbean. Bottom line is HAL had a financial reason to make this change or they wouldn't have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #184 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Peaches - I understand originally HAL had to discount to compete in NYC. Recently, however, (earlier this year) there has been some price adjusting in the NYC cruising market that, if HAL would have done similar adjusting, would have increased their revenue as well (based on similar sized cabins/length of cruise, etc. of course). What is amazing is that the same cruise on the Noordam for next October is now $700 per person *higher* than it was in NYC....doesn't really hold water to the "cheaper to cruise the calm waters" theory that we have been hearing. HAL basically adjusted prices. IMHO, they should have tried the new pricing here for 60 days to see if anyone signed on. If they did, no problem. If they didn't, then move the Noordam. The NCL, RCCL, etc. pricing has been out since early 2007 - gave HAL plenty of time to adjust to see what passengers would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherInFlorida Posted September 28, 2007 #185 Share Posted September 28, 2007 ............. I do not however, understand the sense of urgency. These cruises are a year or more into the future, not this weekend. I just don't get it.:confused: ........... Frick&Frack is right ... the urgency was created by HAL, not the passengers. To give the passengers only about 2 weeks to make a decision on the change is not reasonable when you consider the dilema was actually created by HAL. And I've noticed we have to book cruises a year out or more in order to get our desired cabin location. Getting the location you want is getting harder and harder unless we book early. Many people have to schedule travel plans far in advance for many other reasons. So HAL botched this and while doing so created a sense of urgency for all concerned. If you check out the Maasdam for 2008 -- there is a cruise that has several sea days:Ft Lauderdale HMC At Sea St Thomas Dominica At Sea Curaco Aruba At Sea At Sea Ft lauderdale Now that is a dream itinerary, KK!!!:D Wow! That is a cruise made in heaven for us. If we weren't already booked for 2008, I would run to book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FR926 Posted September 28, 2007 #186 Share Posted September 28, 2007 We have wanted to cruise on HA for years and finally booked it this November. We were planning to book onboard for next November. That is no longer feasible. We will not fly if we can cruise out of NY or NJ since we live in Ct. Flying is too mich BS. So I guess we will be booking next November on the Explorer of the Seas out of NJ. We will not book NCL. So Sadly unless HA moves another ship to NY we will not be sailing with them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #187 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I wouldn't count on HAL doing Caribbean cruises out of New York. But maybe in the future they will do Canada/New England cruises from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #188 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I wouldn't count on HAL doing Caribbean cruises out of New York. But maybe in the future they will do Canada/New England cruises from there. They are doing some limited Canada/NE cruises; however, they are one-way 10 nights with flying on one side (unless you are lucky enough to be able to take 20 days off in a row). So, knocks those out for anyone who cannot fly. Also, several years ago this exact same situation happened....HAL left NYC and it was said they wouldn't return. They did return after, I believe, a 2 year hiatus. Let's hope that's about as long a break in service as we'll get this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches from georgia Posted September 28, 2007 #189 Share Posted September 28, 2007 What is amazing is that the same cruise on the Noordam for next October is now $700 per person *higher* than it was in NYC....doesn't really hold water to the "cheaper to cruise the calm waters" theory that we have been hearing. It still can be that it is 'cheaper for HAL to cruise the calm waters', but at the same time they can get higher cruise fares from FL than from NY because a lot of people would prefer to cruise from FL. Could HAL be double-dipping on making increased profits? :eek: Why wouldn't they raise fares if they can get it, even if their costs are also lower? If you have to fly anyway from the rest of the country, more people probably prefer to fly to sunny FL than to NY in the winter with the possibility of winter storms and travel hassles. Must be more of those folks than those who live around NY who don't want to fly at all. Again, I have no dog in this fight and it doesn't matter to me at all where Noordam sails from. Just had tried to give what appeared to be the facts or HAL wouldn't have made this move. I'll remember next time not to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #190 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Peaches - I wasn't stating anything offensive against you....if you took it that way, I am truly sorry and extend my total apologies for that was not what I meant in any way, shape or form. I was just pointing out that many of us have heard, from some even at HAL, various "theories" on why the pull out of the Noordam (and the "calm waters" was one; "delayed sailings in winter" was another; "ships sailing at less than capacity" was yet another). I agree that HAL will save money on fuel out of a warm weather port - they are closer to the destinations AND don't battle the more Northern Atlantic seas (which I have seen first-hand in a blizzard when the ship - NCL's Dawn - was doing 31 knots forward speed; however, forward motion was 4 knots and this went on for 36 hours). Though, the pictures are incredible :D HAL has every right to increase their revenue stream. I just wished they could have tried raising the prices in NYC first - or at least staying in NYC for a limited time (say Oct/Nov and then March/April) of each year - at higher prices. Gives everyone the benefit of an absolutely top-notch line as well as lovely ships and crew that are among the best in the cruising world. Again, my apologies if I was misunderstood Peaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLP1 Posted September 28, 2007 #191 Share Posted September 28, 2007 This could also be part of a future plan by the real owners of the cruise line Carnival to move their some of their ships into the NY market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #192 Share Posted September 28, 2007 In 1999 HAL did Canada/New England cruises round trip from New York. We were on the Oct 21 - Oct 30 cruise. Ports: New York, Rhode Island, Boston, Portland, Bar Harbor, St John, Halifax, Martha's Vineyard, New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #193 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Bill - Could be; but I would be doubtful as Carnival already has 2 up here in the Spring/Summer/Early Fall. They just don't "winter" up here (no demand per CCL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #194 Share Posted September 28, 2007 I am of the same opinion as Peaches -- HAL was losing way too much money on the Noordam's New York Market - discounting at the last minute to get people on the ship - not good for business. The last couple of years HAL has not had discount very many cruises that sail out of the Ft lauderdale area. And we would much prefer to fly down to Ft lauderdale during the winter months than fly to New York -- we get enough cold weather here - don't need more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frick_&_Frack Posted September 28, 2007 #195 Share Posted September 28, 2007 In 1999 HAL did Canada/New England cruises round trip from New York. We were on the Oct 21 - Oct 30 cruise. Ports: New York, Rhode Island, Boston, Portland, Bar Harbor, St John, Halifax, Martha's Vineyard, New York. My parents did that itinerary as well. LOVED IT. Personally, New England's a bit cool weather for me; but I would try the cruise (heck, the ship's the *real* destination anyway!) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #196 Share Posted September 28, 2007 We loved it and would do it again in a Heartbeat - especially since it was round trip!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sail7seas Posted September 28, 2007 #197 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by Krazy Kruizers If you check out the Maasdam for 2008 -- there is a cruise that has several sea days: Ft Lauderdale HMC At Sea St Thomas Dominica At Sea Curaco Aruba At Sea At Sea Ft lauderdale That's the nice itinerary we are doing on Maasdam in November. Don't have to wait for 2008 to do it. This is very much to our liking and I'm thrilled we will be sailing it. We certainly have been to all these ports before but this combination of sea and port is perfect IMO I really like the 14 day one they have just announced for Maasdam what with the movement of Noordam but it's a bit longer than we want to be gone....when added to pre and post cruise stays. From all I heard, Noordam did sell out most cruises but many of the cabins sold for VERY low prices. That combined with low onboard spending by that particular market and it was financially impractical to continue sailing from N.Y. Add the high price of fuel and the accountants made their recommendations, which, obviously, were followd. Follow the money. It is almost always about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kruizers Posted September 28, 2007 #198 Share Posted September 28, 2007 The Volendam also did that itinerary for about 1 - 1 1/2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sail7seas Posted September 28, 2007 #199 Share Posted September 28, 2007 It isn't a new one. There aren't very many new itineraries for the Caribbean. The best I've seen, for people who don't need many sea days, is Maasdam's new 14 dayer. That is great FLL At Sea At Sea San Juan St. Thomas St. Kitts Dominica Barbados St. Lucia Guadaloupe St. Maarten Tortola HMC FLL What is especially good is that almost all of these ports has almost a full day in port. Sometimes San Juan is 7 A.M. to 12 noon or something like that. This cruise, they are there many more hours. Same for most of the ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Veendam06 Posted September 28, 2007 #200 Share Posted September 28, 2007 Hi i will across the river in NJ from the piers in NYC .Our house over looks the piers and NYC skyline . I watch the ships come and go out alot !!The Noordam made it in on time 99% of the time, like the the 2 NCL ships did !! But if there a snow storm all bets are off !! What i really wish is that HAL would put one of the Statendam class ships from here to Bermuda !! HAL ran cruises from Hoboken NJ & NYC for over 70 year .I"m glad i changed over from the Explorer to the Noordam !! Love HAL . Mr Veendam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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