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How long before Hal changes and allows shorts in the dining room ?


Odd Ball

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It's sounds to me like you're using different terminology: "feeling silly" ... but it's the same motivation. You don't want to be one of the only persons dressed up on Formal night. Neither does my mother. You might feel "silly," but she will feel mortified.

 

 

I understand how you feel Revneal as far as your Mom goes . Mine is pretty much just like her.

 

Not so much in terms of dress. But she is a "How is it going to look?' person.

 

"How is it going to look " if you invite Al and Flo and not Phil and Agnes.

 

"How is it going to look ?" if we don't go to some wake for a third cousins husband we haven't seen in 30 years.

 

I guess it is a generation thing like you say.

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I think the issue rests with HAL. They need to get off the dime and make a decision and follow through with some enforcement (if required). Until they do, this will go on, and on, and on.

 

So over to you HAL-you created this monster. Don't be a milktoast-make a decision and stick with it.

 

They need one of those signs like no shirt, no shoes, no service for formal night:

 

No Suit

No Tie

No Service

 

But still, the sad thing is that it even needs to be "enforced". It's common decency, the right thing to do is to show up in formal dress if that's the policy...

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I prefer informal. I also walk right on board with the wine in my arms-no deception/smuggling required to my knowledge. Never drink soda and show appreciation in the correct manner for good service. But I am not certain what that has to do with the issue.

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I have no clue why Holland America would want to touch a shorts policy with a 10 foot pole. There is loads of beautiful shorts and sandals. Just look thru a Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus catalog.

 

There's gorgeous shorts and sandals for men and women. I'm sure these shorts and sandals would even look fantastic in the dining room.

 

The problem "shorts allowed" opens up that ugly can of worms,of

 

"I rolled out of bed and threw some shorts on.

 

"I wear these same shorts to cut my grass.

 

Then you have the whole shorts that hang down to your kneecaps

 

 

Then you have the shorts that barely hang on your backside and show everyone your underwear.

 

This is the problem with a 'Shorts Allowed" policy.

 

It makes it a very difficult situation to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

An elegant lit dining room music playing and you look around and see this?

 

who wanted this? I forgot?

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This is really how I feel as well. Look people get real !!!

Life is just too short to make a fuss over this. Change happens !!! Go on turn the other cheek and enjoy your cruises.I know that I will.:D

 

This is condescending, don't you think?:o It's fine that you have no problem with change if that's the case. But I have to wonder if it really is if the "change" happens in a direction you don't like.

 

The fact is that the majority of people have difficulty with change of any kind whether it's their job, their house, where they live, or the vacation they like to take. We are all creatures of habit as well as of the traditions we hold dear.

 

And HAL's new direction really goes beyond "change" (how I've come to hate that word:( ). Some of us see it as a spiral downward from the traditions we've enjoyed in the past. No one likes to see the things they've enjoyed disintegrate and ever so slowly disappear altogether.

 

Will some of us "get real" and continue to cruise as always? Sure.

 

But some of us won't. Doesn't matter to HAL. We know that.

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This is condescending, don't you think?:o It's fine that you have no problem with change if that's the case. But I have to wonder if it really is if the "change" happens in a direction you don't like.

 

The fact is that the majority of people have difficulty with change of any kind whether it's their job, their house, where they live, or the vacation they like to take. We are all creatures of habit as well as of the traditions we hold dear.

 

And HAL's new direction really goes beyond "change" (how I've come to hate that word:( ). Some of us see it as a spiral downward from the traditions we've enjoyed in the past. No one likes to see the things they've enjoyed disintegrate and ever so slowly disappear altogether.

 

 

 

I really understand where you are comming from and respect what you have to say. Change will always appear in our lives in one form or another. I deal with it all the time in my work place. Sometimes it is very hard for me to accept it. But in the end I do and then I go on.I am sorry but the whole cruise experience goes beyond dress code.I myself enjoy formal nights and I do wear gowns on those nights.But if someone wants to wear shorts or jeans so be it.I enjoy the open sea and the islands. I guess the best thing that we all can do is to choose a cruiseline that is right for us dresscode and all.Also this new dresscode is on carnival cruiselines. I have'nt heard anything from HAL. Have You?

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Several posters have hit the nails on the heads. I think this is a multi-pronged issue, IMO.

The first is the how people interpret what constitutes dress that is appropriate to the dress code for the evening. Formal night dress code is pretty clear, at least for the guys: tux or suit. Still, a few guys wear sport coats and ties, which is fine--at least they are making the effort to comport with the suggested dress. Folks who don't adhere or subscribe to the formal night dress stand out. On our last cruise we saw more people dressed in jeans, shorts and even tee shirts walking around the public areas on formal nights than we have ever seen before. That was their choice. When it came to Smart Casual, boy the dress was all over the sky! Like Nanette said, people may have different feelings about what kind of experience they want or expect. People obviously have different interpretations of Smart Casual or choose to ignore the suggested dress codes for whatever reason.

Thus, to me that is one of the issues with shorts: some folks would think that gym shorts are fine, and some guys might think that their bathing suit qualifies as shorts, and that leads to the second issue: enforcement or more often these days it seems, lack of enforcement.

With the exception of formal nights, we have seldom seen the dining room chiefs "enforce" the evening's dress code. Again, what they perceive themselves as acceptable dress on Smart Casual evenings may vary from what HAL suggests. Additionally, I'm sure they feel uncomfortable asking guests to change to more appropriate attire. As more and more people elect to wear clothing that varies from the suggested dress code for the evening, I imagine that the dining room atmosphere will become more and more like an Applebees or IHOP than a fine dining room. Maybe that is what the HAL management feels it has to permit to cater to the next generation of cruisers. Maybe HAL management is thinking that if they relax the dress code enough, they won't have any reason to keep the Lido restaurant open, thereby saving money.

 

Still and all, at least for some of us, cruising on HAL will not be as special as it used to be, if that trend continues. I guess that is our chief disappointment. About the best way I can explain this is that with their suggested dress codes, HAL sets for us at least, an expectation of how guests should dress for the eveing.

Just because a person feels that dressing up for dinner is special and enjoyable, does not make one a snob or stuffshirt. And, I am sure that those who dress to a different drummer are probably very nice and interesting people, too.

I don't let the way people are dressed ruin my cruises. But, I can lament about the relaxed dress standards and lack of adherence and enforcement, just as others can cheer about dressing more casually. We should all be able to voice our opinions without being given labels, or without being told to get a life, or without being told to that we need to change our views.

 

The HAL crew and staff are our hosts, and, even though it is my vacation, paid with my hard earned money, I still think they are entitled to have their policies, requests and guidelines honored and respected as much as is possible. By the way, we have never smuggled aboard any prohibited items nor have we stiffed any of the wonderful HAL staff who have served us.

At least we all enjoy cruising! :)

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One more vote for no shorts in the dining room. How casual does 'casual' need to be? I like dressing up and it is nice to see my guy in a suit for a change, but it doesn't need to be a tux. And I don't need to wear a long formal gown. Would you go out to a nice restaurant in your home town without spiffing up a little?

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I prefer informal. I also walk right on board with the wine in my arms-no deception/smuggling required to my knowledge. Never drink soda and show appreciation in the correct manner for good service. But I am not certain what that has to do with the issue.

 

Bringing wine aboard isn't a violation of the Line's Alcohol Policy. Neither is bringing Soda.

 

I agree ... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue of dress codes, other than to note that it's another "code" or "policy" that the Line has which some people ignore.

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... I imagine that the dining room atmosphere will become more and more like an Applebees or IHOP than a fine dining room.
I think you're absolutely correct. I've eaten at both those establishments and have nothing against them. But I'm sure as shootin' not going to pay a cruise fare to dine that way!
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I've read all these threads and it appears the phone was ringing off the hook at Seattle headquarters with complaints about dressing up for dinner? How did Holland America get away with this torture for so long?

 

I sometimes ponder. For the person who has to fill shampoo bottles with liquor, stop at a grocery store and buy soda,water and beer, (oh and a cooler also) wear shorts or a bathing suit in the dinig room.

 

What's the point of actualy going on a cruise? It seems like it would just be easier to stay home in your shorts drink and relax,why bother.

 

I thought going on a cruise was somewhat of a "Different" experience.

 

and dressing up was part of it.

 

Nailed It!!!! :)

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This is an interesting thread to say the least. As someone new to cruising (haven't taken the first one yet!) I was surprised to see all the fuss here over the AYW dining, freestyle cruising, etc. For me it makes perfect sense to be able to dine when I choose or want to and that may very well be different times on different nights. Thank goodness I have that option now on HAL (factored in the decision over Celebrity)

 

Anyway... Just as much as I do prefer to dine when I want to, I also really prefer not to dress up to dine (or for anything for that matter), meaning jacket and tie, tux etc. I can't recall the last time I wore a jacket and tie, two job interviews ago I believe :cool:.

 

However, when it is formal night on the ship, it's formal night and I WILL dress accordingly not simply as I prefer. That is the real issue, people do whatever they want to do when there are laws, rules, regulations, policies, etc. to the contrary. It's a breach of etiquette and decency, the ultimate display of selfishness, and a bigger problem than just folks wearing shorts or jeans on formal nights for their cruise.

 

How sad that someone actually adhering to policy would be the one left feeling out of place and uncomfortable!

 

Enjoyed your post...clearly to the point and easily 'understood' :)

 

Hopefully with a bit of courage and stong conviction, one 'doing' the correct thing should never feel out of place - just 'sorry' for those not doing it..and mentally excusing their behaviour..as simple ignorance..

 

One takes pride in knowing that they do the correct 'thing'..I know I do..bet u do also!!

 

Have happy cruisin'

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Oceana is definately casual. It is at the top of our 'want to try' list. Just waiting for the right cruise at the right price. Friends tell me that it is first rate.

 

Ihave been told it is casual but casual in the sense that women are wearing linen pantsuits and all the men wear collared shirts and a sport coat or something along those lines-so not "casual" as in everyone is in jeans and sloganed teeshirts and nikes.

 

I think RCI calls that "smart casual"? so not semi formal but just a step below it, defientely not "dress down Friday" at work.

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I really understand where you are coming from and respect what you have to say. Change will always appear in our lives in one form or another. I deal with it all the time in my work place. Sometimes it is very hard for me to accept it. But in the end I do and then I go on.I am sorry but the whole cruise experience goes beyond dress code.I myself enjoy formal nights and I do wear gowns on those nights.But if someone wants to wear shorts or jeans so be it.I enjoy the open sea and the islands. I guess the best thing that we all can do is to choose a cruise line that is right for us dress code and all.Also this new dress code is on carnival cruise lines. I haven't heard anything from HAL. Have You?

 

Thanks for this post ... really appreciated it!:) I completely agree the cruise experience goes way beyond dress code, but if I'm going to dress formally I feel the overall ambiance in the DR is somewhat lost if others join us in shorts. I have to tell you this has never happened to us and I'm relying purely on what I read here that it is happening.

 

No, I haven't heard about a new dress code on HAL either, but the thread question was "how long before shorts in the DR.....?" so we're all just responding to that question. Remember that HAL dress code is not really enforced and now is only a "suggestion", not a requirement.

 

I think you're absolutely correct. I've eaten at both those establishments and have nothing against them. But I'm sure as shootin' not going to pay a cruise fare to dine that way!

 

I agree, Jim ... Bill's post is terrific and right on target. Have to say I love Applebee's!!! 'Specially the Oriental Chicken Wrap, but like you I'm not going to pay a cruise fare to enjoy that atmosphere:) .

 

Originally Posted by pipedreams62 viewpost.gif

I've read all these threads and it appears the phone was ringing off the hook at Seattle headquarters with complaints about dressing up for dinner? How did Holland America get away with this torture for so long?

 

I sometimes ponder. For the person who has to fill shampoo bottles with liquor, stop at a grocery store and buy soda,water and beer, (oh and a cooler also) wear shorts or a bathing suit in the dining room.

 

What's the point of actually going on a cruise? It seems like it would just be easier to stay home in your shorts drink and relax,why bother.

 

I thought going on a cruise was somewhat of a "Different" experience and dressing up was part of it.

 

Great post!!!:) You're certainly not alone with these feelings and it's always encouraging when I read that so many others feel the same way.

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HI,

 

I am an old fashioned romantic girl (55 years young LOL) who loves to dress up in a pretty dress to look special for my wonderful husband. I also think he looks fabulous in a suit or tux and he wears them to please me as well plus I tell him he looks like my favorite Austin hero, Mr. Darcy (flattery does work!). We always dress for formal night no matter which cruise line and just enjoy the ambience. On casual nights, we dress accordingly.

 

I'm especially amazed at how sloppy some of the women dress for dinner or in the lounges at night...almost like they go out of their way to look slovenly. Women used to be the ones to hold the men to a higher standard of dress and behavior in public.

 

But as others have said, the cruise lines will accept or reject dress and other rules depending on the market they want to attract and money to be made.

 

We love to cruise and save to have a large suite with wrap balcony when possible we can escape from maddening crowds at times. If the dining room casual and formal dress becomes shorts and baseball caps, we can at least dine on our balcony with a nicer view of sea than the dining room will offer.

 

You can't change other people but I can decide whether I want to be around them and choose a cabin or other line accordingly :)

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Don't give HAL any ideas. THey may contract out the first floor of the dining room to Applebees, and then impose a charge for the second level dining room-and at the same time increase the Pinnacle charge.

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I think having two levels of dining service is a good idea: Figure something closer to Ruby Tuesday's, though. I'm not sure I'd select that option (probably not), but save passengers $10 per day, each, and I bet that will be a very attractive cost savings for many.

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I do not think that HAL would want to save me any money. Seems to me that once I get on a cruise ship, whatever brand, the object is to part me and my hard earned money in the fastest possible manner. I am surprised that they don't have pay toilets in the public areas.

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I think having two levels of dining service is a good idea: Figure something closer to Ruby Tuesday's, though.

 

And the difference between Ruby Tuesday's and Applebee's is...????

 

Some people won't be happy until there's a MacDonald's and a Taco Bell in the Lido...

 

;)

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There has to be a way for people to co-exist peacefully allowing everyone to enjoy what they believe to be their ideal cruise experience.

 

We, as customers need to follow the guidelines published by a cruise line, hotel, air line, etc. When people step outside of the rules thier actions usually have a negative impact on others.

 

A possible solution....

Call the evening dress formal in the dining room, advise passengers in writing that if they choose not to dress formally they are welcome to dine in the lido, where the same menu will be available in a more casual relaxed atmosphere ...HAL should then enfore their rules by turning people away if they are not dressed properly and steer them towards the lido.

 

or, if they have enough people wishing casual instead of formal, set aside one of the dining rooms as formal for the evening (I know this gets tricky as people don't always get the dining time and venue they wish)

 

There are ways for a cruise lines to set guidelines that allow passengers to enjoy their cruise experience. I fully understand those of you wishing to continue the formal traditions and also understand those wishing to be more casual ..We enjoy both ..and like to have the option ...providing the cruise line allows it.

 

I enjoyed that on a recent Princess cruise they set aside 2 nights as non smoking in the casino ..and they enfored the rule ..it was heaven for me personally ..I didn't hear any smokers grumbling around the ship and I didn't grumble on smoking nights ...because I appreciated the cruise provided evenings everyone could enjoy.. Why can't they do this for formal nights ...it doesn't have to be the entire ship ..set aside places that are formal and areas that are casual ..state the rules and then enforce them ..cruise lines will quickly determine what their customers wish on each cruise ...

 

When we dress casually on formal nights we don't go into the dining room ...when we dress formally we do ....what's the problem with that? Cruise lines can state no shorts on formal nights in the dining room and enforce the rule ...

 

People are people ...we all see people every day that we wonder if they ever looked in the mirror ...I don't anticiapte it being any different anywhere we vacation ..there are always those who looked like they just rolled out of bed and don't seem to even be aware of it ....I have no control over their appearance ..but HAL CAN and SHOULD turn away anyone who is not following the rules and guide them to an area of the ship where they can be who they wish to be and continue enjoying their cruise.

 

I'll leave you with this ...years ago when mini skirts became a fashion trend for the first time the office I worked for finally published this guideline .... Those of you who choose to mini should only mini if you mini well ....

 

That sums it up for me ... people need to look in the mirror .. shorts, etc. don't look good on all body types! people need to follow the rules and we all need to respect each other ....

 

Peggy

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Odd, I think of casual as a collared shirt. They are the only ones that I wear. But scratch the jacket. I like informal, but that does not mean soiled tshirts or ripped jeans. I guess everyone has their own version of informal. Having said that, I could care less is someone wears a T and jeans.

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I'll leave you with this ...years ago when mini skirts became a fashion trend for the first time the office I worked for finally published this guideline .... Those of you who choose to mini should only mini if you mini well ....

 

You make an excellent point, Penny. :)

 

I'd much rather see someone dressed "casually" than try to appear "formal" by looking like a stuffed sausage. (Pouring oneself into a tight dress or gown in order to follow a suggestion of attire). :rolleyes:

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There has to be a way for people to co-exist peacefully allowing everyone to enjoy what they believe to be their ideal cruise experience.

 

We, as customers need to follow the guidelines published by a cruise line, hotel, air line, etc. When people step outside of the rules thier actions usually have a negative impact on others.

 

A possible solution....

Call the evening dress formal in the dining room, advise passengers in writing that if they choose not to dress formally they are welcome to dine in the lido, where the same menu will be available in a more casual relaxed atmosphere ...HAL should then enfore their rules by turning people away if they are not dressed properly and steer them towards the lido.

 

or, if they have enough people wishing casual instead of formal, set aside one of the dining rooms as formal for the evening (I know this gets tricky as people don't always get the dining time and venue they wish)

 

There are ways for a cruise lines to set guidelines that allow passengers to enjoy their cruise experience. I fully understand those of you wishing to continue the formal traditions and also understand those wishing to be more casual ..We enjoy both ..and like to have the option ...providing the cruise line allows it.

 

I enjoyed that on a recent Princess cruise they set aside 2 nights as non smoking in the casino ..and they enfored the rule ..it was heaven for me personally ..I didn't hear any smokers grumbling around the ship and I didn't grumble on smoking nights ...because I appreciated the cruise provided evenings everyone could enjoy.. Why can't they do this for formal nights ...it doesn't have to be the entire ship ..set aside places that are formal and areas that are casual ..state the rules and then enforce them ..cruise lines will quickly determine what their customers wish on each cruise ...

 

When we dress casually on formal nights we don't go into the dining room ...when we dress formally we do ....what's the problem with that? Cruise lines can state no shorts on formal nights in the dining room and enforce the rule ...

 

People are people ...we all see people every day that we wonder if they ever looked in the mirror ...I don't anticiapte it being any different anywhere we vacation ..there are always those who looked like they just rolled out of bed and don't seem to even be aware of it ....I have no control over their appearance ..but HAL CAN and SHOULD turn away anyone who is not following the rules and guide them to an area of the ship where they can be who they wish to be and continue enjoying their cruise.

 

I'll leave you with this ...years ago when mini skirts became a fashion trend for the first time the office I worked for finally published this guideline .... Those of you who choose to mini should only mini if you mini well ....

 

That sums it up for me ... people need to look in the mirror .. shorts, etc. don't look good on all body types! people need to follow the rules and we all need to respect each other ....

 

Peggy

 

The cruise lines can also have the passengers sign a paper that it's $10 a day tipping. That's the end of it. Not 200 people on line the last day of the cruise trying to get their tips removed. No tip,no sail.

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You make an excellent point, Penny. :)

 

I'd much rather see someone dressed "casually" than try to appear "formal" by looking like a stuffed sausage. (Pouring oneself into a tight dress or gown in order to follow a suggestion of attire). :rolleyes:

 

 

Or vice versa...

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