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newbuild cabin size - revisited


meow!

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As we have read before, Oceania claims that the newbuild will have average cabin sizes 1.5x those of the present R ships. If it is not too late (cabins may not yet be built and there may still be time for changes), perhaps we should discuss whether this is a suitable move.

 

To start with, the new cabin sizes will be in the ballpark of RSSC, the other division of the same Apollo-FDR cruise line. This may lead to the dreaded self-competition as a corporation. Besides, there is no general demand to increase the cabin sizes of the existing R ships, other than the washrooms. Those who like larger cabins can easily book those higher categories on the same ship (and the ratio of higher to standard category cabins can be different from what it is now).

 

The majority of current Oceanis customers, as we can see on this board, are willing to accept the rather simplistic standard cabins of the R ships -- their aim is a reasonably comfortable room with good food and friendly service, bringing them to interesting places on a port-intensive voyage. So increasing cabin sizes by as much as 50% may not be what they want.

 

Instead, if Oceania increases the standard cabin by 15% in size, putting most of the new space into the washroom (by 50%), such that they are no longer tight and the shower stalls are generous and comfortable, that will be welcomed. (Few people actually want a bath tub anyway, often for sanitory reasons. It is safer to just stand in there and shower as water flows down, instead of lying in a tub with what may be "left" by previous users).

 

With the same newbuild with average cabin size increased by 15% instead of 50%, they can put 30% more passengers on the ship. Other than the food they eat, there will be less increase in overhead cost. So by economy of size, the fare may come down by 20% (or at least slow the increase in fares such that the new fares down the road are 20% less than what will have been otherwise). That may be better welcomed by the majority of potential Oceania customers.

 

Again, as I have said, the minority who want larger accomodation can book a higher suite, or else they can try RSSC! Please comment on this suggestion, and perhaps Oceania can consider such opinions while there may still be time. People who cruise Oceania rather than RSSC are usually thrift, wanting value for money. A 20% lower fare will mean a lot, compared to otherwise!

 

P. S. Of course having more passengers will bring its own set of problems, such as becoming more mass market, but Crystal's new ship has similar sized cabins to what I have suggested, and over 1,000 passengers, and they are still considered "luxury". Part of the aim of this thread is to bring a discussion on this topic, to gauge where public opinion lies.

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Your in depth analysis and arguments are most interesting; however, I doubt it will be anything more than a futile academic exercise. The best comparison is the old discourse of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". Both are interesting topics to discuss, but will lead nowhere. At this point in time, I believe that what you are suggesting will be dismissed out of hand by O. Nice try but no cigar!

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What you say may be true, but so are many topics on this board, from "fuel surcharge" to the use of "sole agents" (and therefore higher pricing) in other countries. This board is where free (and especially sensible) opinions can and should be posted and discussed by all those interested. If only opinions likely to be adopted by owners of cruise lines are of relevance, what will this board become?

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We're with Meow on this.

 

Although it may be "barking at the moon" a discussion of what we'd like the Marina to offer is more stimulating than another discussion of how much booze you can "smuggle" aboard, or, if one can wear a sequined snood in the Grand Dining Room at lunch time! ;)

 

It seems to us that the 50% increase in Cabin size will have to solve a multitude of sins:

  1. Larger bathrooms (with showers to match)
  2. Room (& electrics) for a fridge in every stateroom!
  3. Larger Verandahs

It does not seem like there will be room left over for ballroom dancing......

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Meow!,

 

As an avid O cruiser, I can tell you that I welcome the larger cabins and almost every other passenger I have sailed with has expressed the same. Having more closet space, bigger bathrooms and overall, just more room to spread out and relax is highly welcomed.

 

Personally, I would rather them go this route than add another 360-400 pax to the capacity. A ship of this size with about 1200 other guests is just about the perfect size in my book and I gather that adding that many more pax would probably tax the capacity of the dining rooms. One of the things that O is touting is the additional capacity of the dining rooms that should basically allow all to sit at one time, thereby almost guaranteeing that you can get a table or reservation in any of the restaurants at your desired time. I like that!

 

Having sailed bot O and Regent, no matter what the similarities are in cabins, they're two totally different products especially since R is pretty much twice the price of O.

 

I also highly doubt that if O was to add 3-400 more pax on the new ships that they would charge a lower price. FDR stated a few times that the new ships will be priced in line with the existing ships to keep things simple. Yet another thing I like!

 

Having standard cabins that are essentially equivilant to Regent or Silversea also gives them a HUGE advantage over the likes of HAL, Celebrity and Princess which is what they are aiming for, not necessarily to compete with the luxury lines.

 

Vive la difference!

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Having sailed bot O and Regent, no matter what the similarities are in cabins, they're two totally different products especially since R is pretty much twice the price of O.

That may well be true. However, once the new ships are in service, why would people pay twice as much for a product that is just about similar?

 

They both have excellent service. They both have excellent food. They then both have similar cabins. One includes air while the other includes tips and drinks (customers can easily calculate in those factors). So either the fares will tend to converge, or R will be under pressure. If R is a different company, that will be stiff competition, great for the customers. But now they are divisions of the same company with rather similar products. How are they going to square the circle of this situation?

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Again, as I have said, the minority who want larger accomodation can book a higher suite, or else they can try RSSC! Please comment on this suggestion, and perhaps Oceania can consider such opinions while there may still be time. People who cruise Oceania rather than RSSC are usually thrift, wanting value for money. A 20% lower fare will mean a lot, compared to otherwise!

 

Part of the aim of this thread is to bring a discussion on this topic, to gauge where public opinion lies.

 

An interesting concept - except I humbly suggest that at this point, you're too late. As Jan has already commented, the plans for the new ship have been formally approved which means that it would be impossible at this late date to contemplate changes of any kind.

 

The Fincantieri yard is now cutting steel and within a short time, the work will begin, especially in cabin construction, which is prefabricated off-site.

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That may well be true. However, once the new ships are in service, why would people pay twice as much for a product that is just about similar?

 

They both have excellent service. They both have excellent food. They then both have similar cabins. One includes air while the other includes tips and drinks (customers can easily calculate in those factors). So either the fares will tend to converge, or R will be under pressure. If R is a different company, that will be stiff competition, great for the customers. But now they are divisions of the same company with rather similar products. How are they going to square the circle of this situation?

 

With O you have the option of taking the air credit if you do not have to fly to the port or want to book your own air.

With RSSC you do not have the option to take a liquor credit if you do not drink.

Just me ...but I do not want to pay for someone drinks or gratuities.

 

Even though they may be under the same "umbrella" they are suppose to be run as before as separate cruise lines.

 

They have different products & both lines appeal to a different client base.

 

Lyn

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Once O's new ships start sailing, and assume that they keep the existing price structure as promised, do you think that a substantial proportion of R passengers will move towards O instead? If so, what are they going to do with R?

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I have a hard time believing that the pricing of the new ships will be about the same as the current ships. Just think about it.

 

1. New ship

2. Larger cabin

3. Same service

4. Same food etc.

 

Does that sound like they would have the same price point? For the same price, most people will go for the larger cabin and new ship. Maybe the pricing will be the same price for the same size cabin. This would make some sense.

 

Bottom line, for most people, the new ships will probably cost more.

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I agree with you and I raised similar questions before in this Oceania column

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=13412610&highlight=meow%21#post13412610

And the management inferred that pricing will be kept in line (read especially postings #16 and #17) I thought it might be too good to be true, but let us assume it will be true, then the question becomes whether RSSC's customers will migrate to Oceania in substantial numbers, and if so what happens to RSSC? Of course, management likely hopes that everything will be according to their wishes, but only time can tell.

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Just a couple of points. Regent often has included air, especially on the European itineraries.

 

Regent's planned new ship is likely to have *even bigger* cabins, although that is not yet set in stone. So they will be competing up the price ladder.

 

Someone said a while back that, once the new ships are in place (for both lines), the existing ships are not going away--presumably prices will be lower, at least for a while, on the older ships.

 

The biggest thing that O could do for me would be to become partially all-inclusive, i.e., include bottled water and soft drinks. Oh, and put that fridge in all the rooms!

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Meow,

 

Personally, I do not think a substantial number of Regent passengers will ever move to O. They are different products for different markets. I am basically a Silversea and Seabourn passenger who just tried Oceania for the first time. While I liked it very much and thought the ambience, food and service were terrific, in general I much prefer an all inclusive product. I would rather pay more up front and not have to sign for a $3 coke or $12 drink or $65 bottle of wine all the time. This is just my opinion, but I know many fellow passengers on all inclusive lines who feel the same way. This is not, in any way, to take away from the Oceania experience, which in its niche, is top of the line.

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  • 1 year later...
I agree with you and I raised similar questions before in this Oceania column

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=13412610&highlight=meow%21#post13412610

And the management inferred that pricing will be kept in line (read especially postings #16 and #17) I thought it might be too good to be true, but let us assume it will be true, then the question becomes whether RSSC's customers will migrate to Oceania in substantial numbers, and if so what happens to RSSC? Of course, management likely hopes that everything will be according to their wishes, but only time can tell.

 

Thanks for the alternative thread but who is TERubacky that is answering the questions?

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Perhaps I am just not fancy but I have never found even the inside cabins too small or lacking in closet space. The factor that allows me to say this is we only take one 50 pound suitcase each. Even the airlines charging for bags have not changed our travel ways. Dragging your luggage through parking lots, airports, train stations, taxi stands etc. is the problem. Yes I can afford a sky cap but they are usually not where I need them when I need them. The only sure fire way is to be able to lift your own luggage. Bigger rooms by 50 % not that interesting. Bigger bathrooms YES please I'm plus size and would love to be able to grab a dropped soap without opening the door! Free soda Yes. Alcohol Never so all inclusive not attractive to me.

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I still don't understand how Oceania's "R" ships and its new ships will fill the same niche. It'll be two different niches under the same brand name-large ships/small ships, older/new. less/more, etc. Seabourn, too, will run into this issue and it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

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I don't understand your issue.

How is Oceania and Seabourn different than EVERY other cruise line that ever ordered new cruise ships?

Every new generation of cruise ship is ALWAYS (with perhaps the exception of the Queen Victoria being smaller than the Queen Mary2) larger than the previous.

Today, Princess operates ships as small as 700 pax to 2600 pax

HAL from 1250 to 2200. Celebrity from 1800 to 2850. RCI from 1800 to 5400.They have all successfully figured out how handle different size ships within their brands.

 

I'm sure we'll be just fine.

 

FDR

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I'm sure we'll be just fine.

 

FDR

 

I have great faith that as long as Oceania just keeps doing what they do so well everything will work out.

Looking forward to see what new pleasures Marina will offer.

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I don't understand your issue.

How is Oceania and Seabourn different than EVERY other cruise line that ever ordered new cruise ships?

Every new generation of cruise ship is ALWAYS (with perhaps the exception of the Queen Victoria being smaller than the Queen Mary2) larger than the previous.

Today, Princess operates ships as small as 700 pax to 2600 pax

HAL from 1250 to 2200. Celebrity from 1800 to 2850. RCI from 1800 to 5400.They have all successfully figured out how handle different size ships within their brands.

 

I'm sure we'll be just fine.

 

FDR

 

Mr. Del Rio-

 

We civilians need to realize that in todays cruise-marketplace, 66000 tons is decidedly mid sized. Further, I predict that within ten years the Marina class will be defined as small.

 

If you had opted for a smaller hull, the lack of "new" amenities would have come back to bite you. We passengers, howevermuch we may protest, love our bells and whistles.

 

How did we ever survive with only five restaurants ;) ?

marina.jpg

From what we've seen so far, Marina will be an elegant addition to your fleet. Add in the gracious, polished service that Oceania is already famous for, and you're sure to have a winner on your hands,

 

Congratulations, sir!

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