The demise of formal night

[pipedreams62]

[m steve]

In the past I was outspoken about dressing for formal night. I even had a tux custom made for cruising. On my recent cruise I found that my clothes for formal were a bit tight, forgot my dress shirts but took 3 sets of studs and cufflinks and couldn't get into my dress patent shoes due to a foot problem. Wore a blazer 2 nights and a dark suit 3 nights(Fedex to me in FLL) with dress shirt and tie. I actually felt more comfortable out of formal wear and about 2/3 of the men in the dining room were not in tux. I guess the world is getting more casual but I think a jacket and tie is appropriate and not clean jeans. In Ocala even in the best restaurants you rarely see a jacket or tie unless it's a business dinner. ($100+ for 2)

[Djptcp]

DH and I returned last week from a 10-day Noordam cruise and the three formal nights were formal! I would say that the number of men in tuxes far outnumbered those in business suits or sport coats and the women were very dressed up.

[RuthC]

Does anyone else find it ironic that posters complain that they are attacked for expressing their opinion that they should be able to dress any way they want since it is their vacation, but yet it is the posters who believe in following HAL's guidelines who are the ones who are actually denigrated and labeled pretentious?

Not anymore, I don't. It's SOP on the dress code threads.

 

What I find ironic, though, is that those who claim not to notice what others wear, post offense that others do.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Wore a blazer 2 nights and a dark suit 3 nights(Fedex to me in FLL) with dress shirt and tie. I actually felt more comfortable out of formal wear and about 2/3 of the men in the dining room were not in tux. I guess the world is getting more casual but I think a jacket and tie is appropriate and not clean jeans.

 

No, it's not the world that is becoming less formal; it is cruising. If you go to any land-based event where the invitation states that the dress for the event or the evening is formal, most everyone will be dressed accordingly. If you go somewhere where the dress is semi-formal, then the men - - and I mean ALL MEN - - will be dressed in coat and tie.

 

Try going out to dinner without a jacket to a restaurant that requires coats to be worn. If you show up without one and you're lucky, the restaurant will lend you one to wear. (And I do mean wear; not hung on the back of the chair.) If they don't have one available, then you just have to find somewhere else to eat. I think that the ship's dining room should have such a policy as well on "formal" nights. If not, then they should just do away with them and end the facade.

[Philip217]

I recently re-joined my ship in New York City.

I needed new formal shirts for my uniform, so decided to visit Macy's Flagship store ("America's largest Department Store") on 34th Street in New York City.

 

I asked for formal shirts. They told me that they no longer carry them, due to lack of demand.

They suggested that I visit "Macy's upscale sister store", Lord and Taylor.

At Lord and Taylor, I asked for formal shirts. They had two left. One was my size. I quickly bought it.

They told me that they weren't ordering any more, due to lack of demand.

 

Age 50 has become the new age 30.

Rural has become the new Formal.

[RevNeal]

What I find ironic, though, is that those who claim not to notice what others wear, post offense that others do.

 

Would you care to speculate as to why they do this? I would be sincerely interested in your take on the subject. :D

[RevNeal]

I recently re-joined my ship in New York City.

I needed new formal shirts for my uniform, so decided to visit Macy's Flagship store ("America's largest Department Store") on 34th Street in New York City.

 

I asked for formal shirts. They told me that they no longer carry them, due to lack of demand.

They suggested that I visit "Macy's upscale sister store", Lord and Taylor.

At Lord and Taylor, I asked for formal shirts. They had two left. One was my size. I quickly bought it.

They told me that they weren't ordering any more, due to lack of demand.

 

Most interesting, and rather surprising. I was able to find formal shirts, here in Dallas Texas (in the heart of fly-over country) at Mens Wearhouse ... and in my size! :) However, I usually buy my Formal wear through online suppliers.

[English_in_Spain]

Your experiences seem to be of Caribbean cruises. I think you will find European cruises are a lot more formal.

 

I have never seen jeans etc on any of my European cruises and the minimum for men seems to be a business (lounge) suit.

 

Europeans love to dress up. I hope it remians so.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Most interesting, and rather surprising. I was able to find formal shirts, here in Dallas Texas (in the heart of fly-over country) at Mens Wearhouse ... and in my size! :)

 

Not surprising, really. MW has a very large tuxedo rental and sales operation. In fact, they even have stand-alone B&M stores in malls called After Hours.

[tpwolfe]

No, it's not the world that is becoming less formal; it is cruising. If you go to any land-based event where the invitation states that the dress for the event or the evening is formal, most everyone will be dressed accordingly. If you go somewhere where the dress is semi-formal, then the men - - and I mean ALL MEN - - will be dressed in coat and tie.

 

Try going out to dinner without a jacket to a restaurant that requires coats to be worn. If you show up without one and you're lucky, the restaurant will lend you one to wear. (And I do mean wear; not hung on the back of the chair.) If they don't have one available, then you just have to find somewhere else to eat. I think that the ship's dining room should have such a policy as well on "formal" nights. If not, then they should just do away with them and end the facade.

 

It sounds like you work inside the beltway. If people from the DC area would get out of the beltway into the heartland of the country and not only to the big cities they would see the most the USA has gone more casual and not just the cruise lines. My wife and I did dress up for formal nights when we first started cruising. How formal nights to us are boring and at our age we are comfortable with ourselves and don’t feel the need to do something (put on airs) we aren’t comfortable doing and the lobster and crab legs aren’t worth dressing up for. If formal nights stay around we continue to go to the Lido with about a ¼ of the ship and growing and we will be happy that we are able to take cruises. God has blessed us that we been able to take some cruises and we are thankful everyday for that. Country Club casual (the meaning of Country Club casual also depends of what part of country you are from) is fine we us.

[Pam in CA]

How Can I fit formal clothes into my suitcase?

 

Let's see I've already filled my suitcase with

 

1. Dr Pepper (that's the only soda on the earth I can drink)

 

2. Water (the ships tastes lousy)

 

3. Coffee press (the ships is made from syrup)

 

4. Coffe mugs (the ones on the ship are to small)

 

5. Serving trays (I hear there doing away with trays)

 

6. Wine (I have to have a Gluten free wine made in 1987)

 

7. Assorted cheeses (for the 2 or 3 minutes the Lido might be closed during a shift change)

 

8. A collapsible cooler (to keep my Schlitz cold)

 

10. Viral wipes (can't get Noro)

 

We simply don't have the room

 

see you on formal night

And don't forget the ever-recommended power strip.

 

I'm a big fan of formal nights and feel people should dress appropriately if they go to the dining room or around the ship in the evening. However, on my recent Prinsendam cruise where we had 21 ports in 28 days, most of which were very long, and hot, days where we left very early in the morning and arrived back very late in the afternoon or early evening with hardly enough energy to drag ourselves back to our cabins, my friend and I ate most evenings in the Lido and enjoyed it thoroughly. I would never, ever go to dinner in the dining room in less than the suggested dress but the reality is that if you don't want to get dressed up, there is an alternative.

[MadManOfBethesda]

It sounds like you work inside the beltway. If people from the DC area would get out of the beltway into the heartland of the country and not only to the big cities they would see the most the USA has gone more casual and not just the cruise lines.

 

Most of the people who live and work inside the beltway CAME from the heartland of the country. But even were I to grant you your insulting premise, your response to my post would still for the most part be a non sequitur.

[kelmac]

The switch to open-seating in the dining room certainly didn't help this situation. :rolleyes:

 

Kel:)

[RuthC]

Would you care to speculate as to why they do this? I would be sincerely interested in your take on the subject. :D

One obvious reason is they lack the courage of their convictions. I mean, if you don't care what you look like, then carry that through to it's conclusion: don't care what others think of it, either.

But I'm sure there's many more reasons than that.

[kryos]

I would never, ever go to dinner in the dining room in less than the suggested dress but the reality is that if you don't want to get dressed up, there is an alternative.

Yeah, but they're "suggesting" less and less formality these days ... and even when they do, many people are ignoring the "suggestion." Many other cruise lines have already stopped formal nights, and only make them "optional" formal nights now.

 

Society's mores are changing ... and the cruise lines, including HAL, will change too. I think the only reason Cunard still holds fast to tradition is because they are a British line and the formality is a part of their overall heritage. Since many of their regular passengers are Europeans, and overall more formal anyway, Cunard will probably be the last line to ever ease up on the formal traditions.

 

But HAL will eventually drop them ... at least for the shorter cruises to popular family destinations where it is obvious the majority of the passengers onboard don't want to be bothered.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Lorene-----That is so funny and so true but you forgot to mention the door decorations!!!! :D:D:D

Two bags per person doesn't seem to be much of a problem anymore as we are allowed two on our Westjet flights in March, two on our Lufthansa overseas flight in July and two on your beloved Air Canada ;) for our return from NYC in August. That's 100 pounds per person---plenty of allowance for some formal wear.

Yeah, but not everyone gets a two-bag allowance ... my airline charged me for a second bag. Also, don't forget ... some people travel solo and would only get one bag. With one bag at 50-pounds, for a longer cruise (which are the ones I generally take), that's not a whole heck of a big allowance ... and it requires some thought when packing the suitcase. I've carefully tracked those things I tend not to use very much and have eliminated them from my packing regime.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

I recently re-joined my ship in New York City.

I needed new formal shirts for my uniform, so decided to visit Macy's Flagship store ("America's largest Department Store") on 34th Street in New York City.

 

I asked for formal shirts. They told me that they no longer carry them, due to lack of demand.

They suggested that I visit "Macy's upscale sister store", Lord and Taylor.

At Lord and Taylor, I asked for formal shirts. They had two left. One was my size. I quickly bought it.

They told me that they weren't ordering any more, due to lack of demand.

 

Age 50 has become the new age 30.

Rural has become the new Formal.

 

According to Zagat, there are just two restaurants left in NYC that have and enforce a "jacket required" policy. That's two out of more than 20,000+ restaurants.

 

I think you once said something along the lines of how cruise line policies are written for the broadest market possible, to keep the cost of cruising affordable to the masses.....:)

[kryos]

You know, it's been quite a few years since I studied constitutional law, and perhaps I've forgotten a few things since then, but I don't recall the right to dress casually for formal nights on cruise ships as being part of the Bill of Rights.

Yeah, but when you get a lot of them who don't want to dress up, and they PAID their money to be on that ship ... they will dress any way they "DAM" well please.

 

I like what someone here said about Cunard's passengers "self-enforcing" the dress code effectively. That's exactly the way it has to be if a dress code is to be enforced. People who don't want to dress up will take cues from what other passengers are doing. If they go into the dining room one night and see a lot of their tablemates not technically following the evening's formal dress code, then you'd better believe the next formal night they won't bother to "gussy up" either. The next cruise, they probably won't even bother dragging the formal wear. But you go on Cunard, and you go into the dining room without yielding to the formal dress code of the night, chances are you're gonna be shown the door ... because if the matre'd doesn't do that, he will have all of those other well-dressed passengers to deal with ... and it won't be pleasant for him. Also, the person not dressed appropriately in the public areas at night will get a lot of disapproving stares ... making it unplesant for him as well ... and thus encouraging him to just head back to his cabin.

 

As I said before, I sailed the QE2 once. It's been the only Cunard ship I've sailed and I only did it as a means to get back from a TransAtlantic HAL cruise which dropped me in Venice. I wanted to avoid flying home. The incredible formality on that ship made me very uncomfortable, especially since I knew pretty shortly into the cruise that these people took their formality very, very seriously ... and since they were the clear majority, I'd have to play ball or stay in my cabin most nights. There were no two ways about it. Well, HAL is not like that, and that's why I am far more comfortable on HAL. I just dress nicely for dinner and know I won't have a problem.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

 

I think the only reason Cunard still holds fast to tradition is because they are a British line and the formality is a part of their overall heritage. Since many of their regular passengers are Europeans, and overall more formal anyway, Cunard will probably be the last line to ever ease up on the formal traditions.

 

Blue skies ...--rita

Cunard has two ships are rarely sails in the Caribbean, let alone any 7 day bread and butter runs. The majority of their cruises do not involve U.S. ports.

 

With soon to be 15 ships in the water and the majority of cruises departing from U.S. ports, the dynamics are different.

[sapper1]

Yeah, but not everyone gets a two-bag allowance ... my airline charged me for a second bag. Also, don't forget ... some people travel solo and would only get one bag. With one bag at 50-pounds, for a longer cruise (which are the ones I generally take), that's not a whole heck of a big allowance ... and it requires some thought when packing the suitcase. I've carefully tracked those things I tend not to use very much and have eliminated them from my packing regime.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I was not referring to two bags per couple, but two bags per person, or 100 pounds per person. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

[DeepWaterMariner]

I tend to agree that formal nights, if not endangered, are certainly moving on to the threatened list. The cruise industry is slowly following society in general in order to appeal to as many customers as possible. When onboard rental of formal wear fails to turn a profit we can probably kiss formal nights goodbye. It won't be difficult for me to adapt to a non-formal cruise.

[geshaw30]

Oh Lordy....this is NOT the board to express your opinion about abandoning formal attire on a HAL cruise ship. :eek: There are some on here who would rather you walk the plank during a hurricane than consider dressing in anything other than formal attire on a designated formal night. I've felt the wrath of these folks and they aren't nice.

 

Diane

 

"Put down your cards ladies & gentlemen, we have a BINGO!"

**********

My humble position is I did not, nor will I, plan my hard earned vacation around what might or might not offend the senses of others. If my casual dress attire is seen as inappropriate for formal night then the wife and I will gladly dine on the veranda (as we did in May on the Noordam) on the nights in question. To flame somebody here because they do not meet what some consider "mainstream cruise thinking" in inherently wrong. I totally agree that some basic dress codes must apply in some form or fashion. I have never entered the dining room in anything less formal than slacks and your basic button down dress shirt. But a tux? Been there-done that and I'll never do it again. It's just a matter of choice.

In its simplest of terms and most basic of definitions a vacation is just that...a chance to relax, travel abroad, and enjoy the company of friends and traveling companions. I do not aspire to live up to lofty expectations of those around me nor, on the other side of the coin, do I want to lessen their holiday experience either. So those of you in a tux and formal attire I will still smile say "hello" while dining. I'm sure you'll be elegant and I say that with the best of convictions. I can only hope you'll do the same if my choice of clothing is a tad below yours.

Now bring on the chocolate volcano cake...........................I'm ready for May to arrive.

[TMJplus1]

It's clear that HAL is relaxing their dress codes, probably in an effort for more of a mass-market appeal. I just wish they would find a solution that still honored those of us who love formal nights and getting dressed up and painting the town (er, ship) red in our tuxes and gowns. Perhaps, as was suggested, a certain seating or area of the dining room could be formal. Or maybe they could just do one formal night per cruise rather than two; but it would be more strictly enforced and those underdressed would need to eat at the Lido. Just thinking out loud here.

 

I'll admit I have already been shopping for a new formal gown for our Eurodam cruise and (in the interest of suitcase space) I'm actually considering causing a stir on board the ship by wearing the same gown to BOTH formal nights! I know, it's scandalous, isn't it? My DH has also insisted I bring fewer than my usual 9-10 pairs of shoes - but perhaps that is another topic for another thread! :p

[Aussie Gal]

Lorene-----That is so funny and so true but you forgot to mention the door decorations!!!! :D:D:D

Two bags per person doesn't seem to be much of a problem anymore as we are allowed two on our Westjet flights in March, two on our Lufthansa overseas flight in July and two on your beloved Air Canada ;) for our return from NYC in August. That's 100 pounds per person---plenty of allowance for some formal wear.

 

Those people that live in North American do not know the meaning of only one suitcase per person and a weight limit of no more than 20kg.

 

We do manage to fit our formal wear into our luggage but it is a tight fit and if formal nights on HAL finish, then it will make packing for us so much easier.

 

It means we have to really make our clothes work for us with less shoes etc. We just found that it was so much easier on Oceania with their dress code and the same will apply on Azamara in February again with "Country Club Casual".

 

Jennie