Will Someone Sell a Ship?

[takemewithyou]

Azamara is under the RCL umbrella.

[Essiesmom]

Ships go to Australia, then to Spain, then to Louis Lines...the small European lines have a lot of ships that are going to have to retire in 2010. My question is: What is so wrong with NCL Dream that nobody wants her? EM

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I doubt their clientle will put up with poor service.

 

They wont put up with poor service,

but they will understand

any cutbacks that are needed.....

to (pardon the pun)

stay afloat.

[TCF]

I suggested almost a year ago that some lines would be forced to put some inefficient ships in mothballs until the economy improved....and that was before the economic catastrophe last fall!!

I remember only because I didn't yet my flame retardent underwear on it time after I hit the post key!! LOL!!

Now I am thinking the indutry is praying that mothballing ships is all they will have to do in order to survive!

[Twickenham]

They actually have - they sold it to Louis Cruise Line last year, and Louis leased it back to NCL for this year - I believe it will be transferred in the fall.

That's true, I do remember hearing that. I'll be interested in where Louis deploys her - might interest me, she's a pretty little ship, even if her cabins are tiny.

 

Without know the intricate details of the ship leases and financing, it's impossible to say who is the weakest link.

 

Analysts who follow the business report that it's RCL, right now. That could change, tomorrow.

 

The smaller botique cruise lines are probably more vulnerable. Think Azamara, Oceana, Regent, Sea Dream, Silver Seas, and Seabourn.

 

The problem with RCL is they rely heavily on always having the NextBigThing - they're always promoting their new ship. If demand drops, they will be forced to either slow down on the newbuilds or discount heavily to fill the (massive) ships they have. It's actually a much more fragile model/market share than HAL, which has a loyal core of repeat business.

I suspect the luxury lines will do better, as they don't have as much capacity, and the upper-tier of rich are probably more protected against the economic downturn than us poor working folk...;)

[caribbeanboy]

And the last one in line is?

 

X has already announced the sale of the Galaxy. I can see them attempting to sell the Mercury, it's sister ship.

 

B

 

They are not selling the galaxy but just transfering her to another cruise line under the Royal Caribbean umbrella and they are doing this b/c they are getting 4 new ships in the next 3 years.

[Krazy Kruizers]

 

 

If I had my way, I'd rather they sell off one of YOUR two favorite ships. :D

 

 

I don't have any favorite ships.

[Krazy Kruizers]

And thier Capitains lead the rescue effort from on shore- being first off!:D

 

You got that right!!

[Sea King]

We no longer have direct flights to Ft Lauderdale anymore on any airline. About 4 years ago our airport closed Terminal E. In the last 2 years Terminals A and B have shutdown half of each one.

 

And this is Pittsburgh, PA!!

 

The cruise lines will wait at least another year before they make decisions about selling off ships.

 

 

sorry KK .. but can't agree

 

IMHO there is a "slight difference" between canceling "x" number of flights out of 1 airport vs. trying to sell off ships, especially when, in the case of HAL you only have 14 to begin with .. and remember, selling 1 ship eliminates an entire itinerary in multiple ports throughout the world..

 

a bit more complex IMO than losing a terminal in Pittsburgh

 

agree with S7S to a certain extent: easy to offer but more difficult to find a buyer especially when the economic problem is world wide (I believe that would include Greece;))

 

unfortunately, I think we'll see changes in the not too distant future: and I don't believe they will be "minor" or even "temporary"

 

the entire industry will be impacted .. and there will be casualties

 

who will survive in the unknown

[bishop84]

Ships go to Australia, then to Spain, then to Louis Lines...the small European lines have a lot of ships that are going to have to retire in 2010. My question is: What is so wrong with NCL Dream that nobody wants her? EM

 

I don't think there is much wrong with the Norwegian Dream. I think Louis bought her to charter her out like several of their ships, i.e. the old-Noordam and old Nieuw Amsterdam, but the charter never materialized so they dropped out of the purchase. IIRC they had to pay NCL several million dollars compensation for dropping out of the deal.

 

What with their new ships coming on line and having to redeploy their NCL America ships I guess they did not have an itinerary for her. I think if the Sky had stayed in Hawaii then the Dream would be on that 3 & 4 day run out of Miami instead.

[Steamboatin]

The US river cruise industry has had 3 cruise lines go bankrupt just recently.

 

So yes the cruise industry in the US is under economic pressure.

 

With these new massive 4,000 passenger plus vessels they need massive passenger generation to keep them full. Example: 4,000 passenges x 52 weeks = 208,000 passengers per year per ship. That is a lot of passengers that need to fill just one vessel. Start doing the math for just one cruise line fleet. Than do the math for the industry. That puts a tremendous pressure on their sales departments.

 

The trend with Holland America Lines is multi-month cruises. Not shorter ones. They have the clients that can afford and want those longer cruises.

 

This positions the Carnival Corp various lines and their entire fleet for a full span of cruising experiences.

[bellebaby]

They are not selling the galaxy but just transfering her to another cruise line under the Royal Caribbean umbrella and they are doing this b/c they are getting 4 new ships in the next 3 years.

 

The Galaxy is going to TUI Cruises which is a joint venture between TUI AG and Royal Caribbean, targeting the German market.

 

Yes, X is scheduled to add 4 new ships in the next three years... MORE capacity. Thus the suggestion they could decide to sell or possibly even mothball the Mercury.

 

B

[bishop84]

The Galaxy is going to TUI Cruises which is a joint venture between TUI AG and Royal Caribbean, targeting the German market.

 

Yes, X is scheduled to add 4 new ships in the next three years... MORE capacity. Thus the suggestion they could decide to sell or possibly even mothball the Mercury.

 

B

 

RCL and TUI have already declared that they want to grow their new joint venture if the Galaxy is a success. Its highly likely that tonnage from X or RCL will be transferred. The Mercury, being a sister ship, would probably be a candidate for such a transfer.

 

Both Carnival and RCL are developing joint ventures and subsidiaries using their older tonnage from their main brands. Spain appears to be a current area in play with Iberojet (Carnival) and Pullmantur (RCL) both gaining ships from their respective partners or new owners.

[sail7seas]

deleted

[hammybee]

The trend with Holland America Lines is multi-month cruises. Not shorter ones. They have the clients that can afford and want those longer cruises.

 

With 14, soon to be 15 ships in the sea, most of HAL's cruises are 7 day sails from domestic ports, not the voyages that only a relatively few can afford, in terms of time and expense.

 

NCL hit a home run, this winter, by deploying a ship in the Med out of Barcelona.The ships are sailing full and some of the roll calls have been robust. Those with 12-14 days time take advantage of off season air fare and off they go. These cruise also attract European bargain hunters, no different than COSTA. Having an O/N in Egypt also helps set these sailings apart.

[Atomica]

I don't think there is much wrong with the Norwegian Dream. I think Louis bought her to charter her out like several of their ships, i.e. the old-Noordam and old Nieuw Amsterdam, but the charter never materialized so they dropped out of the purchase. IIRC they had to pay NCL several million dollars compensation for dropping out of the deal.

 

What with their new ships coming on line and having to redeploy their NCL America ships I guess they did not have an itinerary for her. I think if the Sky had stayed in Hawaii then the Dream would be on that 3 & 4 day run out of Miami instead.

 

The Norwegian Dream interests me because I just can't figure out why NCL is getting rid of her, if other than to claim 'The Youngest Fleet' - a moniker which is current only for so long.

 

The Dream has a hydraulic mast and funnel that can be flipped over to allow it to transit the Kiel Canal. It's small enough to dock in Bermuda. All it needs is a little refurbishment cabin and bed wise (and a proper lido buffet area) and it would make an excellent 3-5 night cruise ship.

 

I agree that if the Sky was still in Hawaii, the Dream would take up the Miami-Nassau-Great Stirrup Cay-Miami run.

[TCF]

There is certainly some logic to the argument that those lines with smaller ships...like HAL...will fair better than those with ships that need 3000 passengers a week to fill them!

We almost missed getting the April cruise we wanted on the Ryndam because I...sitting on the sidelines....mistakenly assumed that I had lots of time to get a decent cabin because the economy was beating hell out of all lines. WRONG! We only got on by the skin of our teeth and wound up having to buy a more expensive cabin because the mid-priced categories were long gone!

Lines like HAL may have to be working harder to get the passengers...but so far they appear to be winning the battle....in terms of filling ships! A lot easier to get 1200 than 3000 onboard!

[sail7seas]

I checked this morning to see if the prices for our Maasdam Canada/New England cruises this summer had dropped. They are UP from when we booked. That has to indicate Maasdam is selling well for this itinerary as she always has.

 

[Krazy Kruizers]

On Nov 29 when we were sailing out of Ft Lauderdale, the Independence of the Seas was at terminal 24.

We got to talking to some of our crew who had friends on that ship and they had gotten together for a few minutes during their time off. The Independence did not sail with a completely filled ship -- crew indicated that they were sailing with 1000 less passengers than normal.

Don't what the reason was for the ship not being sold out.

[kyriecat]

It would not surprise me if Royal Caribbean gets rid of Majesty and Monarch soon. Those ships do the alternating 3/4 night cruises from Miami and Port Canaveral respectively. RC transferred the Empress and Sovereign (sister ship to Maj & Mon) to Pullmantur last year. I know they are trying to become the family fun cruiseline with the biggest ships and most kid-friendly things to do so the smaller ships don't fit their business plan anymore. However, the 3/4 night itineraries are still profitable for them so they will probably put two of their older, less kid-friendly ships (Vision class) on those routes.

[bellebaby]

Analysts who follow the business report that it's RCL, right now. That could change, tomorrow.

 

OSLO, Jan 28 (Reuters) - Barclays Capital cut its share price target for Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (RCL.N)(RCL.OL), the world's second largest cruise operator, to $1 from $20 and its rating on the stock to "underweight" from "equal-weight".

 

"While it is well known that cruise demand has been declining precipitously since last fall, we do not believe the magnitude of the decline is appreciated," Barclays said in a note to clients on Wednesday.

 

"While we believe RCL will stay solvent, we estimate the company would become precariously close to facing liquidity issues," Barclays added.

 

Not good news for RCL.

 

Also note they do not believe the magnitude of the bookings decline has yet been realized.

 

B

[m steve]

Trump-he could name them The Donald and Ivanka!

or to the Chinese. They probably are holding the debt anyway so they can forclose and have these unwanted ships. They could convert them to troop carriers like we did in WW2.

[Jade08]

I recent read an article from Budget Travel (online version):

 

http://current.newsweek.com/budgettravel/2009/01/no_recession_for_the_cruise_in.html?wpisrc=newsletter

 

 

No recession for the cruise industry

 

In a surprise announcement, the Cruise Lines Industry Association is predicting that 13.5 million people will cruise North America this year, an increase of 2.3 percent over last year. If the forecast proves accurate, the cruise industry may be the only part of the travel industry to post a gain this year (assuming you don't count the national park system).

 

Some of that cruise passenger growth will come from non-American visitors to the Caribbean. All told, annual passenger volume has increased 79 percent in the past eight years.

[jhannah]

I can believe that numbers will be up. But what are those "numbers" paying? Look at all the "two-fers' being offered out there. The question is more than numbers of pax, but the bottom line. It eventually has to come down to dollars.

[Copper10-8]

You bet someone will sell a ship! Ships get sold, internally transferred, chartered, laid up/taken out of service, etc., etc. all the time. As stated, there are some cruise lines, some medium-sized, some small, Cyprus-based Louis Cruise Line being one of them, that specialize in operating older cruise ships, either themselves or their subsidiaries. After buying, they will also frequently charter that particular ship out. The world is full of them.

In addition, some owners will not pay the steep price to upgrade older ships to SOLAS standards. Some of those old ladies have been, or will be, laid up already, some will be sold, some, unfortunately, only for scrap metal and will meet the end of their career on some beach in India, Bangladesh or Taiwan.

As far as HAL, I don't believe they are going to be spending all that money on upgrading the four Esses and the one Rrrrrrr to then turnaround and sell them. Besides Prinsendam, those four "S" class ships are the oldest in the fleet. After Rotterdam, it's Volendam (1999), Zaandam (2000), and Amsterdam (2000) so we're talking ten and nine years which is still young in cruise ship years.

The old lady in the fleet is Prinsendam which as Royal Viking Sun appeared on the scene in 1988. She has been refurbished/refitted more than once. She has a very loyal following but if the right deal came along you better believe that HAL would snap it up. Although not sisters, Prinsendam's former Royal Viking stablemates (Sea, now Albatross for German tour operator Phoenix Seereisen and Star and Sky, both sailing for British line Fred Olsen as Black Prince and Boudicca) are still going strong. I've got a feeling that both Phoenix and Fred Olsen would be more than happy to scoop up Prinsendam if they opportunity presented itself.