erdoc53

Where can one find which ships have stabilizers? They never say...

Intent of malice/deliberate deception one and the same thing, deliberate deception did not exist in your case but you are not going to accept that nor are you going to accept anything anyone publishes on board.

 

There was by the way no unlawful gain, there was no deception. You have a view about the level of information you were given but that is highly unlikely to be seen as deception by a reasonable minded judge. You have to prove intent and that the perpetrator took actions deliberately to defraud you.

How can you say deliberate deception did not exist? They deliberately did not tell us that the toilets did not work before we set sail, and this was obviously done so people would not demand a refund and refuse to board. As far as everyone else on the board, there are just a few like yourself who refuse to acknowledge that anything wrong was done. You must work for them?

I am extremely surprised the credit card company used the word fraud as that is not what happened. They need to retrain their call handlers in relation to the categorisation of credit card disputes. You may opt to raise a claim in relation to service delivery, though from the facts presented you will have a difficult case to prove, however if you progress with this as a fraud claim, 100% you will not be successful. There was no fraud committed, there are very precise definitions of what constitutes a fraud, including intent of malice, that did not happen here.

 

I am sorry your cruise was not as you expected and you chose to react to the situation you faced as you did.

 

I am glad to here from others that all is working well onboard a ship that is totally seaworthy and has given me a far smoother ride than some of the larger glitzed up bling offerings around

No, you are wrong. Here is the definition of fraud. " deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. I think that about covers it.

In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong (i.e., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud and/or recover monetary compensation) and a criminal wrong (i.e., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities).

i would agree with you if the toilets stopped up after we set sail, however the toilets were not working before we set sail. The passengers were not told, and should have had an option, especially since it seems this ship has had this problem i the past , and apparently will not or can not fix it. And as a medical professional i think no working toilets on a cruise ship with a lot of seasickness is bad enough, but to quarantine someone to their room with a malfunctioning toilet and possible norovirus , you are ok with that? Don't you think a norovirus outbreak on a ship with no functioning toilets would be a total health disaster? This is what they were gambling with. Their immediate health problem on this ship was not norovirus , it was no functioning toilets, and one reviewer even claimed there was sewage backup in some cabins.

and no it was not we who chose to leave the ship early. We were not given a choice for quarantine , we were quarantined to our room , like you said we should have been, but the toilet was malfunctioning. We were not offered another room. Our only other option was to disembark. There was no choice here.

I am sure your cruise experience was unpleasant and I do sympathise with your obvious disappointment, however I have always found both Quest and Journey to be excellent, seaworthy ships and not a "bathtub" at all. The Captains are always proactive in advising passengers of any rough sea conditions ahead and allowing anyone prone to sea sickness to take medication ahead of time. Yes, the ships are small but I actually like the feeling of being on a moving ship at sea and not on a floating tower block. I have just returned from a cruise on a large ship and we had a night of Force 10 winds and very heavy seas with lots of pitching and rolling. You take a chance on rough weather on any ship, but it's a risk of cruising. I actually commented to my friend that I think Quest would have handled the seas better.

 

As to your cabin plumbing issues, these can happen on any ship, old or new and on any cruiseline. It's unfortunate but I'm sure Azamara did their utmost to fix it ASAP. If the sailing was delayed and ports missed because of this issue then I can imagine that the majority of passengers whose cabins weren't affected would be extremely unhappy and would have a case for claiming compensation. You were offered compensation and I do feel that this was well deserved but certainly not a complete refund.

 

As to the health issues, as a medical professional you must know the rules for isolation that have to be followed for gastro intestinal conditions. Could you not have been moved to one of the cabins with a working toilet? As you must know, Norovirus symptoms typically last a maximum of 48 hours and then you could have continued with your cruise. It is sad and unpleasant that this should have happened to you and I really do sympathise because I know that I would be upset if it happened to me, but I still cannot see that you have a case for a total refund of your cruise monies. I would think that a partial refund for the days that your bathroom did not function and a generous discount off a future cruise would be more than acceptable. After all, it was you who chose to leave the ship early.

 

To anyone sailing on Journey or Quest in the future, I can only echo Phil's comments that they are beautifully kept, clean and charming ships with the happiest and best crews at sea. I have just returned from a lovely cruise with another company and I am going on a Silversea cruise in a few weeks, but I just can't wait to book my next cruise with Azamara soon.

I would agree with you if the toilets stopped up after we set sail, however the toilets were not working BEFORE WE SET SAIL. The passengers were not told, and should have had an option, especially since it seems this ship has had this problem I the past , and apparently will not or can not fix it. And as a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL I think no working toilets on a cruise ship with a lot of seasickness is bad enough, but to quarantine someone to their room with a malfunctioning toilet and possible Norovirus , you are ok with that? Don't you think a Norovirus outbreak on a ship with no functioning toilets would be a total health disaster? This is what they were gambling with. Their immediate health problem on this ship was NOT Norovirus , it was no functioning toilets, and one reviewer even claimed there was sewage backup in some cabins.

You are the ones that referred to Journey as old and small and basically a bathtub. You lost my vote when I read that reasoned approach:rolleyes:

 

Phil

I replied to this once it seems to have disappeared. My point in calling th ship a bathtub was thT it handles poorly in rough seas, and Azamara knew we were sailing into rough seas WITH NO TOILETS before we left port.

And your quoting a credit card company as a reputable source :) ???? I wouldn't trust any of them. If you never cruised a refund or another cruise yes - cruise then a discount is the best you should expect.

You can dispute a charge on your credit card.

You are the ones that referred to Journey as old and small and basically a bathtub. You lost my vote when I read that reasoned approach:rolleyes:

 

Phil

They offered you a credit, which is standard in this situation. They don't owe you a refund, as they still provided you with a room, crew, food, etc, which you still used for a few days. I can imagine the toilet situation was unpleasant, to say the least, but we had a similar issue on Holland America and were given a credit as well. We neither asked for, nor expected a refund. You also chose to the leave the ship early on your own....you weren't kicked off the ship or "basically forced to leave". Regardless of whether you're a physician or not, the shipboard medical staff is required to follow CDC guidelines. That does require quarantine if you exhibit signs of vomiting or diarrhea. You are, in turn, required to follow this protocol. Or leave the ship.

 

I'm not criticizing you, as I can imagine how miserable the whole situation must have been. But Azamara has provided you with compensation. As a physician, you must understand that the cruise lines must enact a quarantine given your symptoms. They can't chance a noro-infected guest to wander the ship's venues.

 

Sorry you had such a rough trip. My vacation time is very expensive and valuable time-wise, and I would hate to have it marred by something like this.

 

 

 

Michael

You also contradicted yourself here. First you say we were not forced to leave the ship, or kicked off, we chose to leave. Then you go on to say we were required to follow the quarantine imposed or get off the ship. How can one be expected to follow quarantine in a room with a malfunctioning toilet? So we basically were forced to get off the ship. You yourself say that we were required to do so.

No, this was not my first cruise. And if you read the critique of this cruise by myself and other critics you would know that they left port with the toilets not working. This was NOT a problem that developed at sea, it was a problem in port. On over half the ship. Good for you if you want to pay for a room without a toilet but I persoanlly do not. They should have given people the information before sailing and given them the option of a refund or boarding with no toilets. Weather is not controllable OBVIOUSLY, but certainly is made that much worse when your toilet DOES NOT WORK. Firthermore, toilet systems are not much different on ships than they are on airplanes and an airplane will not leave with inoperative toilets. Toilets that don't work on airplanes are extremely rare. If a cruise ship can not have the toilets working before you board they should not sail. That should be their problem, not mine. That is also a health department issue.

Really? You paid for a " luxury" cruise and the toilets didn't work and you are ok with that?? When we were on the Miami to Costa Rica leg they left port knowing the toilets didn't work , and they announced when they finally found the problem it was a leak in the galley, which was not confidence inspiring about the food. They repeatedly told us the problem had been fixed so it's interesting to see that on the return trip there were in fact still problems.

We are the ones who were basically forced to disembark. They offered us only a credit on a future cruise with them. We spoke to the credit card company who said this was a fraud case. They sold us a " luxury" cruise, and we did not get a luxury cruise. We got a stateroom without a toilet. That is not luxury. They owe us a refund.

After a disastrous cruise with Azamara where they actually left port with most of the toilets on the ship not working and heading into 10-25 foot seas, I will never cruise again. You are totally at their mercy once you get on that boat. And since you have to prepay you can not get a refund. The way we usually vacation is to go somewhere and rent a house or a flat, usually through VRBO.com. We have rented some amazing places for extremely reasonable. We rented a large flat in Rome by Spanish steps, one bedroom with terrace that overlooked St Peters, for $1500 for a week. Since there is a kitchen in these rentals you can control your food, eat out where you have determined would likely be good based on other reviews, not be held captive to a boats galley. You can plan your own outings, stay in if you want, and almost always when we've had a problem the agent or owners are extremely accommodating in helping to solve the problem. Not so on cruises.

Beer is included BUT only Bud or Bud Light. They also offer Becks but did not have any for the first 2 days on our cruise. There is a wine list that is a bit longer to choose from and mostly standard liquors like gin etc

We were also on this cruise. We felt it was the cruise from hell. Very rough, the boat handled the seas poorly, we could only go 20 mph across the Gulf of Mexico in rough seas. The toilets did not work even before we left port of Miami my husband checked and the toilets did not work on the whole port side and most of starboard also. So they left port to rough seas and toilets not working and they knew this. When we finally got to Aruba we stopped at the ship's doctor due to my seasickness they were announcing injections for sale overhead. Because I also said I had a little diarrhea the stupid doctor ( I am also a doctor) quarantined me to my room for possible Norovirus! I did not have a virus! I was seasick! He told us if we got off the boat in Aruba for our shore leave we would not be allowed back on! I asked what other alternative did we have he said we could disembark. So we could be quarantined to our room with a bad toilet and we had been told not to overuse the toilet and not use much paper, while being sick to my stomach, or get off the boat. We actually chose to get off the boat and flew home that day from Aruba. They have offered us to compensation , of course. And , i did not have Norovirus.