zerbot

Yes, but do Red Lobster or Olive Garden have Gala evenings????

No, but Red Lobster does have cheesy biscuits. Yum!

If they show movies in the big movie theater, they have to pay public performance fees.

I’d like to chime in here and say that I find it amusing, absolutely amazing and a little bit surprising that anyone could actually take this subject seriously. Worry about radiation coming from the water in the middle of the ocean. Come on folks, you’ve GOT to be kidding.

 

I make this statement with a bit of a background in studying the effects of radiation. You see, the title of my published doctoral dissertation in Electrical Engineering was “The Effects on Ionizing Radiation on Semiconductor Devices.”

 

Don’t even think about the radiation coming from the sea water in the middle of the ocean. I believe it is orders of magnitude below anything that we need to consider.

 

Of course, YMMV.:)

 

Scott & Karen

You are someone with a high level of knowledge about this sort of thing. Did you stop to think that not everybody is? It doesn't help to mock people who are seriously looking for information about something they don't understand. I once ran across a student at an elementary school science fair whose poster board was all about how we shouldn't be microwaving our food because it would make it radioactive and make us sick. Lots of glow-in-the-dark jokes from people wandering by, but no explanations of why microwaves can't make something radioactive.

Think about all the confusing messages that non-technical people get. On the one hand, messages about radioactive potassium in bananas and how we shouldn't worry about "natural" radiation. But then we're supposed to worry about radon in our basements, and that is "natural". Warnings about what is dangerous and what isn't have changed over the years as we learn more (the Niagara example, for instance), and many are old enough to have lived through a change from "not dangerous" to "oops, i guess it is" and they're naturally suspicious of "I'm an expert, trust me" proclamations.

Even someone who understands that there is normal background radiation doesn't necessarily understand how that measures up against what might be released in an event like Fukushima. They might appreciate hearing an actual fact, like that there is no detectable rise in radiation levels off the coast of North America. They may have heard that "radiation from Fukushima" has been detected off the coast of North America and that is true. Detectable quantities of Cesium-134 can only have come from Fukushima, and has been detected in extremely small quantities in a few locations off the coast of North America. By "extremely small" I mean up to 2 Becquerel per cubic meter of water. A Becquerel is a measure of "disintegrations per second". By contrast, the human body measures (ballpark, depends on where you live, what you eat, and how much you weigh) about 5,000 to 10,000 Becquerel, or in other words, every second, about 5,000 to 10,000 of your atoms disintegrate in a nuclear event. So you can "detect radiation from Fukushima" and at the same time it doesn't cause any detectable rise against background levels.

There, isn't that way more reassuring than "trust me, I'm an expert"?

Don't fly...don't use the microwave...don't buy watches or clocks with glowing numbers....in other words, just living exposes you to radiation. We are adapting to it.

Microwaves don't emit ionizing radiation. What we're talking about here is the other end of the spectrum.

When my mother was undergoing radiation treatment for cancer, the doctor counseled her to avoid all unnecessary sources of ionizing radiation, stuff that wouldn't be an issue for most people. That included flying or even traveling to places at high altitude unless it was an emergency. I would hope that people would realize that what might not be of concern to most people could be an issue to some, and not just tinfoil-hat ignorance.

Oops, never mind.

For passengers who are under 21, does HAL provide something else in lieu of the Signature Beverage Package?

No kidding. We have the SBP as part of the Explore4, and the wine choices under $7 are distinctly lacking. I'd happily pay $1 for an upgrade.

I have tried to explain this to you in numerous ways but the only few people that continue to state that the exclusivity is what makes it a "perk" seems to be you. You have already pointed out numerous items that you have no interest/problem with that are indeed suite perks, but continue to harp on Luminae. Here are items that you continue to say are not issues to you from previous posts even though they are exclusive "suite perks" that cannot be individually purchased.

Ditto right back atcha. People keep thinking they have read stuff in my posts that just aren't there. Go read the post that started it all:

Everything about this venue is on as high par as Pinnacle. ... To me, everything about HAL and Celebrity are on par with one another, but, to me, Luminae will start pushing me in the direction of Celebrity.

So everything is on par *except* that Luminae is suite-only. The OP is claiming that the exclusivity is what makes it a perk, and therefore Celebrity suites are better than HAL suites, because they come with a suite-only restaurant that is just as good as Pinnacle. What I want is for someone to tell me what it is about the exclusivity that makes it a perk. Why does excluding other passengers make it better?

On HAL:

- Pinnacle Grill exclusive to suite guests for breakfast (You seem to be ok with it even though it's exclusive as the food is the same as the MDR. The exclusivity somehow does not bother you)

- Priority embarkation (exclusive to suite and high mariner's society. Again not an issue for you)

- Neptune suite is exclusive to suite passenger (Something you have dismissed as a windowless room with the same food you can get at other venues).

- Priority tender/disembarkation (Cannot purchase as an individual perk)

I don't have an issue with the idea of suite perks! All I want to know is why making a restaurant exclusive makes it better (and therefore a perk)!

Exclusivity doesn't bother me so much as the attitude that simply because something is exclusive, that automatically makes it better. I had originally been under the impression that using the PG for breakfast for suite guests helped alleviate crowding in the MDR (a good thing!), but then I'm told that the MDR is hardly attended at all for breakfast, but somehow it is still noisy, and so many people that it's hard to get service. If the food or service is better in the PG, well, there is the obvious value. I even understand the "small venue" part, as I would prefer to eat in a smaller space rather than a cavernous one (even if it were uncrowded and quiet). I like cozy. Some people like the grand scale of the MDR. To each his own.

Priority embarkation/debarkation, no big deal. Again, I have no problem with the idea of suite perks! We will all get on and off the ship. We all get to use tenders. It's obvious where the value is in getting priority. I've ponied up myself for things like that. I don't see anybody protesting that handicapped passengers also get priority (which I have heard people complain about with regard to priority boarding on airplanes), so this is not even an issue here. The issue is, where is the value in making a restaurant exclusive? Why does the fact that Luminae is suite-only push the OP in the direction of Celebrity? All I've gotten is "you have to experience it to understand." I have experienced exclusive elsewhere, and really, I've never noticed anything about it that makes it better just because it is exclusive. To me anyway. The reasons others have given basically boil down to either they like other people envying them, or they like not having to be around those who are excluded. An exclusive restaurant on a cruise ship is a bit different, in that suite-only membership is a lot more fluid and easier to pay for outright or get upsold/upgraded to than finding a few million to pay for an exclusive club.

Now I have experienced exclusive arrangements that didn't boil down to that. Groups of friends or organizations that will hire private rooms at restaurants or hotels. Nobody ever has a problem volunteering, "Because we get loud sometimes and this way we don't bother the rest of the guests." Or, "We all know each other, and this way we don't have to worry about leaving purses/tablets/laptops laying around and having them walk off." There's no, "you just have to experience it to understand."

Just now going through photos from our cruise and discovered this one of the plane prior to leaving on it's fateful, final flight. Very sad...

If that is the actual plane, and especially if you have a higher resolution version of that photo, please consider sending it to the NTSB. At the very least, they'd be able to examine it and rule out possibilities.

Thanks for that link.

"nose high, wings level" would seem to me to indicate the plane was climbing but not turning, although I am in no way an expert on flying.

Your focus on all of this is very bizarre. Do you really think all the suite guests pay the money they do just for these perks - just so, as you put it, they can say "nanny nanny boo boo" to everyone else? If so, you are very, very mistaken, and that's exactly my point toward insecurity. I used to run a very large travel firm in Miami, so my experience with passenger bookings in insurmountable. Yes, there may be a very minuscule minority whose priority are those perks and yes, I know those people exist on Cruise Critic, but the very vast majority of people who book suites do so for the suites. All this other stuff are just added bonuses - nice touches, if you will.

Nowhere did I say that, geez, I've said I'd probably like to sail in a suite, the perks sound very nice. I was responding to the sentiment in the OP, which lauded the Luminae as being just as good as the Pinnacle, and because it is suite-only, they are now looking at Celebrity first. And that HAL had better quickly respond (with their own suite-only restaurant, presumably). Everything about HAL and Celebrity are on par, but having a suite-only restaurant now makes Celebrity somehow better.

Now, I've looked at suite perks, and many of them look mighty fine, things I would pay extra for, but I surely wouldn't pay extra because a restaurant that was just as good as someone else's restaurant was exclusive. The suite passengers will have to bear the entire cost of operating the restaurant because revenue from non-suite passengers will be limited to occasional guests of suite passengers. I'll be curious to see if the finances work out, but Celebrity is a mass market line aiming at the broad middle of the market, and even in cities of hundreds of thousands or millions, exclusive establishments are a small percentage of the total and largely aimed at a market with a lot more money than Celebrity's niche. Maybe there are more "nanny nanny boo boo" types out there than I would expect.

Over the years, I've read a lot of posts from people on these boards who obviously have sour grapes, are insecure, jealous - whatever you want to call it, but you really seem to be taking the cake on this particular issue. What is it about suite perks you don't get, or have such an insecurity about?

I'm not insecure, or jealous, or experiencing sour grapes. I'm fully well capable of affording a suite should I want one, so it's not a matter of running down something I can't have. I fully understand perks like free laundry, expedited boarding, etc. Zero issues with that, power to the suite! My issue is with the claim that some things are perks *because* they are reserved for suite passengers only, like Luminae. I don't understand what makes Luminae better because it is for suite passengers only than if it were open to everyone (certainly with a surcharge for non-suite passengers who haven't paid the extra expense). That if it were open and not exclusive then somehow it would be diminished.

About breakfast in Pinnacle, yes, it is the exact same food as in the MDR. The difference is, you're not rushed, the service is more friendly and personal, you don't have to wave someone down for coffee or water refills, it's more comfortable, more relaxed, quieter, and you don't have to endure the chaos of the MDR or the buffet. So yes, it certainly is a "perk" to be able to use Pinnacle to eat breakfast.

Well, there you see, there is a difference other than "only for suite passengers". How would you feel about opening it to everybody and putting a $5 surcharge on for non-suite guests? What value would you place on the better experience so that non-suite guests pay fairly for it? Are you allowed to invite non-suite guests for breakfast? And I keep being told the MDR is not only not crowded at breakfast, it's very sparsely populated. I guess we'll see.

From your posts, it's obvious you've never had this perk, nor have you had the perk of Luminae on Celebrity. If it's a perk that doesn't interest you, then just say it and be done with it. But for you to go on and on flaming something you have never even tried is downright obtuse, as someone else put it.

Nope, I haven't, but I've been on both sides of comparable "exclusive" perks before, and I would never pay extra for something just because someone else can't have it. But an awful lot of people do, and while they don't literally say, "Nanny nanny boo boo, you can't have it," I hear a lot of stuff like, "Well, I'll never run into the NASCAR crowd here," or "It's nice that everybody in here is pretty much on the same level, it's kind of awkward when you realize you've been talking to a Kroger's cashier and have absolutely nothing in common with them." I'm not "flaming" Luminae itself, or breakfast at the Pinnacle, but the idea that exclusivity itself creates something desirable and worth paying a lot more money. Nice restaurant great, but the idea that it's even better if only suite passengers can use it?

Yeah, it's about being told you're special :rolleyes:. It sounds a whole lot like sour grapes to me. The food in the pinnacle in the morning is generally better and the service is usually better. When eating in the MDR you practically have to beg for coffee refills. In the pinnacle you do not. I know someone is going to say they've never had any problems getting refills.

There's a thread around here where someone asked if you can get breakfast room service from the Pinnacle, and the "in the know" people replied that it was the same menu as in the MDR, so just use that.

Studies have shown that people perceive food as better if they perceive the environment as special. Wine served in crystal gets better marks than wine served in a plastic cup (same wine). Food served on china is perceived as being more costly/better than if the same food is served on paper plates.

If the service or the food is better, then sure, that's a perk. But the issue here is that there is something extra special that goes with restaurants being exclusive to suite guests, even if the food and service are the same, whether that be the Pinnacle at breakfast or the Luminae. I don't think it is sour grapes to ask just what that extra special something is.

Therefore the interpretation of the reason for the better-ness of the Pinnacle Grill for breakfast is all about it being exclusive. The people that rave about it can try to explain it in any way they want, but it still comes down to the rather obvious implication that it's all about being more special than everyone else.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm reminded of when my kids were little, and occasionally when I was handing out treats to the gang of kids they had over, I'd run out of whatever it was (which usually meant that someone snuck one). The solution was always to grab something that was similar, and say to the last one, "This one is special, just for you!" They'd walk away ecstatic almost every time.

I am not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, but a smaller venue, better food, better service, and the resulting overall ambiance are what "it" is. It's really not that hard to get given the descriptions earlier in this thread.

 

Again, your not valuing those things doesn't mean they are not of value to others.

No, that's not the point. "It" is whatever that results from the restaurant being made exclusive to suite guests. Having a smaller venue, better food, better service doesn't require exclusivity. The Pinnacle is a smaller venue with better food and better service, but it isn't exclusive. Perhaps it is the ambiance, but that mean that non-suite passengers degrade the ambiance somehow, which leads us back to the perk being "not having to eat with the riff-raff". Except that supposedly that's not it either.

The ONLY thing that gets expelled from an E-cig is water vapor.

Again, that's not possible unless the vaping liquid is 100% water.

The E-liquid I use is vegetable based...100%. The vapor that leaves my mouth ONLY stays IN MY DIRECT AREA dissipates within 3 seconds and causes no harm to anyone. It's no more harmful and is based on the same principle as most "fog" machines in theaters or concerts.

Vegetable just means "plant" as opposed to "animal" or "mineral". Doesn't say anything about whether it's harmful or not. Since you make it, you could just say what goes into it.

Dissipation doesn't mean it goes away, it simply means the condensate evaporates into the air. When I use my inhaler, I exhale into a cloth, or in a pinch into my sleeve because most of the medication settles in my lungs, but not all of it. This in spite of the fact that looking at me you couldn't see anything I was exhaling. It's still there and I have no intent to medicate anybody else. Again, if it is just water and nicotine, it's probably not a problem for me, but it could still be a problem for someone who is nicotine sensitive.

Still not not sure I'd do a tux, being uncomfortable walking the line between elegance and foppishness. But if they had a West Side Story night, insisting on Jets apparel (and behavior to a limited extent) to get into the main dining room... now THAT would be something else again. Have to practice snapping fingers just in case.

I recall someone telling the story of a diner (on Cunard I think it was) who came to the dining room not only in formal attire, but with a top hat and opera cape, doffing them with a flourish and holding them out to the maitre d', who took them without missing a beat.

Then there was the guy at my prom who came in a tux and Converse. Now that's stylin'.

If you've ever had breakfast in the Pinnacle, you'd figure it out.

And yet nobody can seem to come right out and say what it is.

No tar, carbon monoxide or any of the hundreds of other gasses and harmful chemicals did I release in the air. Anyone who claims water vapor in the air bothers them as tobacco smoke does is just "blowing smoke"....IMO.

It can't be just water vapor or you could just stick your head over a pot of boiling water and get the same effect. Smoke is particularly bothersome for my asthma because of the tiny particles of soot, but tobacco smoke is worse than say, wood smoke, which is worse than candle smoke (like when you blow one out). But some things which are entirely vapors, such as some perfumes, noxious chemicals (chlorine in the air like at a swimming pool will do it), or hell, even just very hot (upper 90's+) air will do it with long enough exposure. Water vapor by itself is good, I've stood in a hot shower on a few occasions to breathe in the steam. If the vaping liquid is just purified nicotine in water, it probably wouldn't be a problem, but I wouldn't want to say that definitively until I'd experienced it. Nicotine is a stimulant and some people react to it badly. If it's more than just nicotine, well, all bets are off.

And it costs $50 for someone not in a suite to join a suite person for dinner there. That's an outrageous amount of money!

Well, presumably the food is better than the MDR. It wouldn't be any different than Pinnacle or Le Cirque (I think that is $69 per person iirc) if suite passengers on HAL got to eat there free as part of their suite fare, except for the fact that non-suite passengers can't eat there unless they are a guest of a suite passenger. I still can't figure out why that is a perk.

Just sayin': Income is income. If you can avoid paying taxes on the money just because you call it a "service charge" as opposed to a "gratuity" and/or "tip" then the tax code is flawed and should be changed to eliminate the "tax loophole".

It's not in lieu of calling it a "gratuity" or "tip" it's in lieu of calling it "fare". There are tax jurisdictions that treat service charges/gratuities/tips differently. For instance, in Washington state, service charges/gratuities/tips that are voluntarily provided by the customer and which go directly to service employees aren't subject to state sales tax. If it is a mandatory charge or if management takes a cut, sales tax is supposed to be charged on the amount.

According to this link with accompanying documents, SOLAS requirements are for 75% (37.5% each side) coverage with life boats (covered or uncovered), and 25% additional coverage with life rafts. That is as of 2010. So the regs require 1 spot in a life boat or life raft for each person on board, no excess capacity is required by the regs.

According to the report on the Volendam incident where a crew member was killed when a lifeboat fall line snapped (I can't get google to let me properly copy the link out to put it here, but it's easily findable by googling "Marine Inquiry 11-201 Volendam"), the Volendam was certified at launch for 620 crew and 1805 passengers (2425 total). She "was fitted with 14 motor lifeboats accommodating 1920 persons, 16 davit-launched life rafts accommodating 560 persons and 18 life rafts accommodating 630 persons." While she is certified for 2425 people, the "Ship Facts" on the HAL site list her as 1432 passengers and 615 crew, for a fully loaded ship carrying 2047 people. This would put her lifeboat capacity at 93.8% coverage, and overall coverage at 151.9%. While these aren't the numbers for the Ryndam, the Volendam's were easily findable, and the two ships are close in size and passenger capacity.

If HAL runs all the ships at similar numbers, then losing a lifeboat still puts them well within regulations. While I think it is scandalous that the regs allow only 100% overall coverage, it is comforting to know that overcapacity is there.

oh please don't be fooled, HAL certainly does. My last HAL cruise I was i a Neptune suite and ate in the Pinnacle for breakfast and had exclusive access to the Neptune lounge and I choose to pay for the Pinnacle on other nights to avoid the large MDR. Really both are no that different from the dining and one lounge reserve for Grills on Cunard. I would say NCL and Celebrity have created more of a class system than Cunard. And they honestly should, how do they compete and attract those who wanted to pay $500 a week and those paying $500 a day?

I've read here before that for breakfast, the food in the Pinnacle is identical to the food in the MDR, so serving suite guests in the Pinnacle is just a way of making extra seats available. Perhaps a minor perk for the environment. And the Neptune Lounge is a windowless room that simply makes it so you don't have to run to the front desk for service or to a restaurant to get snacks. There isn't anything in the Neptune Lounge you can't get elsewhere. It isn't a "we serve awesome food here, but you can't get it unless you're in a suite, even if you want to pay for it" place.

Pretty sure you can't. You also can't buy the extra legroom.

The extra legroom is a function of the seat, in much the same way as the extra space in the cabin is a function of the suite. I was speaking of the additional things like yes, first class meals. You had to order and pay for it ahead of time, but you could get them. Like I said, I haven't flown in years, so maybe they have squashed all that (the upcharge to a first class meal was pretty stiff, I don't know of anybody who actually ordered one). You could get the same drinks as in first class, they just wouldn't be complimentary.

The dining rooms are not nearly as crowded or noisy and the food is prepared fresh made to order with a much higher quality (not banquet style). The Suite Guest is more pampered. Does that Suite Guest have to ONLY dine in the restaurant? Absolutely not but it is there for them because YES they paid the additional cost for that as one of the many perks.

How does this differ from a specialty restaurant that isn't exclusive, like the Pinnacle Grill or Le Cirque? As I understand it, it is also an uncrowded, quiet venue with fresh food made to order, and higher quality. You pay a surcharge to get that, you just don't have to be a suite passenger.

I honestly do not think you are understanding what the value is in paying extra for this type of perk and why many are flocking to this. Unless one has tried this you honestly would not understand.

Exactly. I don't understand what it is about making the restaurant exclusive to suite passengers that makes it worth paying extra. I understand completely why Pinnacle Grill and Le Cirque have surcharges. I don't understand what would make it worth paying even more for a suite to have them be exclusive to suite passengers. It's the exclusivity that I don't understand as a perk. Why is keeping out the non-suite passengers (even if they are willing to pay the surcharge) worth paying extra? Let's say I try it and go to Luminae, what is different about it that wouldn't be there if non-suite passengers were allowed to eat there? Tell me what I should be looking for so I don't miss it.