Linanbob2

Morning coffee on the balcony??? At 28 F with a 15-20 knot wind..😩

 

As for the duration. Definitely suggest including the Falklands and South Georgia. I consider South Georgia one of the highlights of our trip.

I've read reviews of people doing just that and enjoying it. Is that MCO in your nic referring to Orlando? That might explain it...:). We were brought up in cold winters.

Curious. How was SG different from the peninsula?

Thanks all for the input. Real life kept me away for a little while or I'd have been more responsive to the comments.

A few random responses:

• It's been harder to find the "ideal" for this trip. The 10-day itinerary seems too short for the distance traveled to get there (coming from US midwest). But much more than, say, 16-17 days or so starts creating work-related issues.
  
• We've heard enough about South Georgia to want to include it, but so far, every itinerary I've looked at shows a reduced number of days on the Antarctic peninsula when it's added. Given the inherent uncertainties of weather & sea, ideally we'd want to maximize the opportunities there.
  
• My initial reference to "expedition ship" was intended to denote the smaller, fewer frills ships. I wasn't putting, say, Ponant's fleet in that category. I now understand my error and will adjust my vocabulary. We absolutely, positively want an expedition ship!
  
• I also noted the less-than-fantastic reviews of Ponant. This is probably the reason we haven't booked yet. Haven't come to a conclusion whether the criticisms were serious or coming from people who had unrealistic expectations.
  
• We've made lifelong friends while traveling. We don't consider ourselves snobs (but I suppose that's for others to judge). While I agree that age doesn't have to make a difference in getting along with someone, the larger the intersection in life experiences, the more likely it is you will.
  
• Agree completely about the unassailable math related to the time needed in getting people ashore. 200 seems to be a practical top end.
  
• The interesting thing I learned is that apparently Tauck "buys" one of Ponant's boats for the month of January. (Whether Tauck actually runs the operation or simply buys the space, don't know.) They run their "Antarctica Earth Journey" trip that is essentially the same as the Ponant "Emblematic Antarctica" trip.
  
• Re. balcony, I hear the counterargument. But wife enjoys taking morning coffee and we both enjoy a pre-dinner drink out there taking in the scenery. I've read reviews where people seemed to put it to good use that way.
  

Perhaps we'll just flip a coin...

Thanks again everybody.

Relevant to my previous post, we're currently leaning Ponant as a decent compromise of:

• Ship size (smaller ship equals more chances and longer times ashore??)
  
• Comfort (I mentioned the balcony thing, right :))
  
• "All inclusiveness" - Ponant seems to cover everything with their prices - gratuities, drinks, trips ashore (I understand some lines charge extra fees?), etc.
  

All input gratefully accepted.

Interested in an Antarctica cruise the winter of 2017-18.

Our general parameters are:

1. Have to make landfall - no "Drive By".
   
2. We're <ahem> a "middle-aged" couple, and would prefer a trip with people we'd likely have something in common with. Especially since parameter 1 will tend to dictate a smaller ship.
   
3. We (particularly her) aren't really up for a "roughing-it" sort of trip. She insists on a balcony not a porthole, so the "expedition ship" is probably out.
   
4. We understand it's a pricey destination generally, and we're of some means. But it would be a mighty mental struggle to spend $50-60K on a single vacation. I'd love to bring it in noticeably under that.
   

Suggestions?

This is a bunch of firsts for us - first river cruise, first time to Asia and first land cruise combo. But, we're very excited. We've been on many cruises but just never any kind of organized tour which I knew we would need to do in China and so we thought Viking would be a great place to start.

The look-and-feel of it is very different from a typical blue-water cruise. Which I liked. For reasons of space (if nothing else) you won't be flooded with choices onboard. For the land part, if you can navigate the streets and subways, you can have some flexibility. I don't think you'll have much to be concerned about.

We're at the Kerry Hotel in Beijing and I'm just wondering if we'll be able to brush our teeth with the tap water? Do you have any knowledge about this? I'm sure we can ask once there but I want to get mentally prepared.

You're very welcome.

As I mentioned, I drank (as in swallowed) the tap water at the Westin. Now my travel history is around 30-some years and 40-some countries. I've developed a certain ability to make these judgments, and have had "Montezuma's Revenge" only once (in North Africa).

If you're at all in doubt, don't take the risk. Last thing you want is getting medical treatment while vacationing. There's plenty of bottled available. (Though I've idly wondered if Chinese bottled water isn't Chinese tap water in a bottle. :) )

Enjoy the trip!

Cash-flow and flexibility would be the main reasons for delaying the actual ticketing.

 

Most of the cruise lines will not ticket any earlier than they have to, but most will ticket upon request once final payment is made.

 

There is a risk on their side that if you cancel after they have ticketed, their options to change or cancel that reservation are not the same as if they had not yet ticketed...

Good points that should have occurred to be.

The other thing worth mentioning, at the various sights, don't be surprised if random Chinese stop to take their picture with you. Apparently, many Chinese don't see many westerners, and you're a bit of an oddity to them. (I'm a 6'3" white-haired guy, they see even less of those.) This happened to us at nearly every sightseeing stop.

The bit of fun I had with that was while sitting on a bench at the Wuhan museum. Bunch of Chinese grade-school girls on a school trip kept making sidelong glances my way. I smiled and waved. A couple of them decided I didn't bite and came over to (what else) take my picture and try out their English. One asked what my Chinese name was (assuming that westerners had Chinese names like Asians have western names). The look of confusion when I said I didn't have a Chinese name was priceless. I told them my western name, and they giggled madly.

When the rest of the group saw this, they all came over. I'm surrounded by 30 ten-year old Chinese girls. (Was never more popular with the girls before!) So I took pictures of the mob surrounding me. Some of the best photos of the trip.

Just to help with the understanding of what happened there.

 

American Airlines doesn't actually have an 'Economy Plus' cabin they only have what they call 'Main Cabin Extra' which is simply nicer seats but still in the coach cabin with the normal coach service. These seats are available for selection at the point the reservation is made, but they do require a small extra payment if you do not have sufficient Elite status with AA.

 

Similarly it is very normal for the cruise lines to make a reservation but not actually ticket the reservation until much closer to departure than you would find comfortable.

 

Most of them will however ticket upon request as long as final payment has been made (not usually an issue with Viking due to their early payment terms).

Hey Mark,

Yeah, I get what AA's service is. (It's why I was buying it.)

In most cases, I don't care when the cruise line tickets as I haven't needed to do anything with the reservation. In this case, I wanted to get the seats, and seat assignments, while the seats we preferred were available. I started from an assumption that for a 13-hour flight, they might go quickly. So I cared about timing.

When we paid in full for the trip, I had a (reasonable, I think) expectation that Viking would ticket the reservation promptly so I could access the reservation. They didn't do this. I gave them weeks, and it was another week or so of phone calls before it got done.

Not knowing what the back-office transactions are between Viking and the airlines, I can't say for sure. But I'm not seeing how it's to anyone's disadvantage to ticket immediately upon payment.

My small way of trying to give back to the forum, since I took away so much good info from here.

Viking's Style in China

The interesting thing Viking does in China (don't know if their Europe river cruises are the same), is combine the concepts of the land tour with the river cruise.

There are seven or eight groups of about 35 each assigned to a bus with a Viking tour escort. Each group travels together for the entire trip for all the side-tours, airport transfers (except arrival and departure), and the assigned escort leads and works the logistics for the entire trip. The escorts share responsibilities for some of the optional side-trips, and in taking care of those not taking the optionals. I think it works out well - you have more of an opportunity to get to know people.

Viking Air

This was Viking's only real hiccup in the whole process. We wanted to be sure of sensible connections, and I had in interest in the 787, so we chose to pick our own flights using Viking Air. We got what we wanted (American Airlines nonstops out of Dallas for the China legs).

I now wanted to buy the Economy Plus upgrades for the extra leg room (I'm 6'3"), and the airlines won't let you do that at the time of reservation. You need to get the flights reserved and ticketed, and go online and do it yourself. Problem: The American website wouldn't permit me to access the reservation details. Called American to see what the problem was, and it turned out Viking Air made the reservation but (apparently) didn't pay American, so they wouldn't ticket the itinerary. Viking Air, of course, hit my credit card promptly. It took a few calls to the travel agent and some three-way calls with Viking Air to get them to do whatever magic was required to have American actually issue the tickets.

(We had some issues with American later that took some work to straighten out, but I'm skipping that because this isn't "Airline Critic".)

In the end, we got what we wanted - so all's well that ends well.

Itinerary and Travel

The itinerary in the book was followed (mostly) to the letter.

Beijing

Arrived Beijing a day early for some extra time-change accomodation, and to account for potential airline problems. Viking transfer people were there and fairly easily found.

Tienamen Square was interesting to me for the historical events. There was a fairly long line waiting to get into Mao's tomb. The Forbidden City is much more interesting if you understand its history first.

The Great Wall was a fine thing to see, but do be prepared for a mob scene - mostly of (presumably) Chinese people. Lots of people. One rides a ski-gondola type lift from the bottom tourist center (usual thing with junk shops and snack-type food), to the station up on the wall. Once there you can go anywhere you like on this section of the wall.

(The wall is a problem if you have mobility difficulties. We had one older lady in our group who had walking difficulties who made the trip up the gondola and walked from the station on the wall to a location on the wall where she sat and waited for her son and wife to return. She didn't see much, but she made it. Wheelchairs are effectively impossible there.)

The visit to the hutongs was a nice change from the mob scenes everywhere. As usual with those kinds of things, you've no way to know how "authentic" the experience is.

From the hutongs, it was straight to the airport for the flight to Xian.

We didn't do any of the Beijing optionals. Don't see what the big deal is about a Peking Duck dinner, and all the opera reviews were negative. (Our tour escort kind of talked down the opera as well.)

Xian

The only thing you're doing in Xian is seeing the Warriors. Interesting enough to do one time.

We did not do the Tang Dynasty Dinner and Show. Reviews from some in our group who did were OK.

Next morning was the flight to Chongqing.

Chongqing

It was straight from the airport to the "bonus" stop to see the pandas. The escort sort of warned us not to broadcast the fact, as not every group would have that chance due to timing of flights. (Don't know if the warning was serious or somewhat in jest.)

Then it was straight to the port to board the ship.

The Yangtze Cruise

Onboard Experience Overall

Boarding the ship was a nothingburger. I was reading all sorts of things here about carrying baggage long distances to the ship over an unstable gangway, but you only have your hand carry stuff, it wasn't that far a walk, and the gangway was fine.

The ship is physically very manageable. There are elevators. The staff on the ship is mostly young (20-something) Chinese. Their English is not fantastic, but they manage. (Their English is probably better than your Chinese.) The cabins are typical Caribbean cruise ship size.

Food onboard was mostly what I expected. Not the best cruise food I've ever had but perfectly acceptable and tasty, with an adequate number of choices.

The included wine was low-end but perfectly acceptable. (Lois the bar supervisor was pouring for our table, and boy did she keep it coming.)

Water on the ship is not drinkable. Bottled is supplied, if you need more, just call and they'll deliver some.

The room climate controls are centrally controlled. There's a thermostat on the wall, but it's purely decorative other than for fan control. It was never hot during our stay, and was overcast several days on board, and got a touch chilly in the room.

The Cruise and The Stops

Overall the Yangtze is not the most scenic river out there. Above the dam, it reminded me of Norwegian fjords because of how the valley was flooded.

Below the dam, reminded me of the Mississippi.

Shibaozhai Pagoda: This was an OK stop. One can climb the Pagoda, we passed. (I have a foot issue that was fine for me, but didn't want to push it.)

Lesser Three Gorges sightseeing: This is on smaller (~22 passenger) boats. This was one of the highlights for me, I enjoyed this.

Three Gorges Dam tour: This sort of thing always interests me, so I enjoyed this stop. Only problem is you can't get as close to the dam and locks as you can in the states. The Chinese treat it as a military site. Given the disaster a dam failure would be, I suppose I can't blame them.

Jingzhou and the school visit: We passed. Those who went told us it was pretty much exactly what we suspected it would be.

Wuhan museum: The museum part was (to me) a bit of a yawn. I did enjoy the bell and traditional instrument performance.

Disembarking the ship was a breeze.

Shanghai

I was getting a nasty cold by now, so I was laying low. The dinner before the acrobat show was a bit of a disappointment (perhaps I was tiring of the "Lazy Susan" chinese dinners) and was rushed. The acrobat show was entertaining.

General Topics

Money

While waiting for others in the Beijing airport, took the opportunity to go a bank ATM on the arrivals level to get some cash. We took a preload-style "International Debit" card our credit union offers - it's a chip-and-pin card which is effectively required outside the US.

Personally, I don't think there's a better or safer option than ATMs using preload debit cards for cash abroad - no need to carry lots of cash to change, and the preload card provides a hard upper limit on what you can lose in the worst-case scenario.

We preloaded the card with $1000 before leaving. In Beijing the machine had an option for English, and got 2000 Yuan with no hassle at all. We did each take a credit card (from different accounts) in case of an emergency or a decision to make a larger purchase.

Despite having read some warnings that USD wouldn't be as useful as they usually are abroad (weird things like 'no small bills' and 'need to be newer bills'), it seemed that nearly anyone would take USD. In any case, my preference is credit cards and local cash where necessary/practical.

Baggage Handling

As you'd expect, we handed them over to the transfer bus driver after clearing customs at the airport in Beijing, and we didn't have to touch it again until we collected it at the airport in Shanghai to check 'em in for the flight home. The tour escort assures all the pieces are there upon arrival and departure from hotels, and at the departure airport. At airports, it's moved to a central location where you simply assure it arrived. It was delivered to rooms the entire trip. The system worked flawlessly for us.

Be aware that your large ("checked") luggage isn't always in the bus you're in. At the hotels, it's collected and trucked to the airports in one batch.

Hotels

We had the Westin Chaoyang in Beijing, the Crowne Plaza in Xian and the Shangri-La (west) in Shanghai. We thought the hotels were great - more than adequately spacious, comfortable and clean. None were true "city center" but all were very much in the city, so access via subway or taxi to other sights, restaurants, etc. was fairly straightforward.

Be aware there is no expectation you drink the water in the hotels - bottled is supplied. I drank some water at the Westin in Beijing with no problem. I suspect I could have at the Shangri-La in Shanghai, but didn't. The bathroom faucets in the Crowne Plaza Xian were labeled "no drinking water", so I didn't.

Hotel Food

We didn't avail ourselves of any of the independent restaurants in the hotels. We were either eating out or at the hotel "buffets". The buffet at the Crowne Plaza in Xian was outstanding, great selection and perfectly fine quality, plus free-flowing wine and beer. The buffet at the Westin in Beijing was a disappointment - OK selection, but quality not up to what you'd expect given the quality of the rest of the place. The buffet at the Shangri-La was very pleasant with with decent selection and good quality.

Inter-China Flights

The flights (Beijing-Xian, Xian-Chongqing, Wuhan-Shanghai) were all regularly-scheduled Chinese airlines (China Eastern and Xiamen airlines). I was idly thnking how it might be better with a charter, but I assume it becomes a question of cost and liability.

In any case, all the aircraft were newer Airbus or Boeing products, and the airplanes and service were similar to western standards (for better or worse).

Traffic

Traffic in all the cities is just stupid bad. One of the meals out in Beiing, the escort said "15 minutes" to get there. It was an hour and fifteen minutes. After the meal, it took fifteen minutes to get back to the hotel. The only difference was traffic. (As an aside: The delay doubtless screwed up the restaurant's plan, and food was late getting to tables. There were a handful of "ugly Americans" who were loudly complaining about the lateness, and about the "one drink included" part. Don't be those people.)

Air Quality

It was basically marginal throughout. It got better on the river when we got away from the large cities, but it was never really clear. Not as bad as Beijing has been the last few weeks though.

Funny part was the one or two attempts by local guides to say it was "haze" or "fog" and not smog.

Be prepared, particularly if you have some chronic respiratory issue.

Toilets

In all the hotels and aboard the ship it's western-style all the way. At the tour stops, it's mostly squat-style with one western-style fixture (that typically everyone waited in line to use).

Shopping

In the cities (Beijing and Shanghai in particular), there is shopping of all kinds - from "first-quality tourist junk" to Chicago's Michigan Avenue stuff - within walking or short taxi ride from all the hotels.

For the stops while onboard the ship, it's pretty limited to the "tourist market" type stuff, but if you keep your eyes open, there are decent tourist trinkets for the kids or grandkids available at these markets. At these tourist stops, do be prepared for a hard sell (we had one woman follow us for almost a block), and to haggle.

This brings us to one of the other minor complaints I had - too much time at the "forced shopping" stops. There were three or four of these stops over the course of the trip. A couple of these are in conjunction with lunch stops. Many (all?) of the places are government-owned stores. I would have preferred to spend those hours doing a driving city tour over a jade carving demo and having a salesgirl follow us around in a jade store.

Suggestions for Improvement

In no particular order:

• Fewer forced shopping experiences, more city touring.
  
• A bit more diversity in the included meals. Too many lazy susans.
  
• It seemed to me that the escorts would have a basis to understand the traffic sitation. I wondered if our hour delay getting to a restaurant could have been avoided.
  
• When the airlines are expecting the passengers to do so much themselves online, Viking Air should pay the airlines promptly so the passenger can actually accomplish that.
  

Positives:

Again, in no particular order:

• Hotels were killer. Very impressed. (Just work with the Westin to up their game re. the food.)
  
• Our tour escort was pleasant, and worked to make things happen for us.
  
• Liked the radios used to provide info at the stops. One could wander away a little but still hear commentary and get logistical info (like where and when we were leaving places).
  
• Our group was pretty good. We had a real overrepresentation of physicians, psychologists and engineers, and not near as many retirees as I would have predicted. I wonder if Viking has a system, or if this was just random chance.
  

I'll try and pay attention to the thread and answer any questions if any.

Price?