Shineson

On 2/24/2021 at 1:41 PM, uktog said:

Difficult decision, we pushed to next year (our third move) when April was lost.  You are right BA was flying those non stop and that is what we hope for next year however they may not release these routes back once gateways open up (New Orleans and Nashville are currently not agreed entry points for UK guests).  Probably worth a gamble, you might have to do a transit en route if travel is allowed then but that would be preferable to not getting the holiday you have been dreaming of.  Look forward to hearing how it goes for you, we will be doing it in to Nashville and cruising from Memphis and out of NO.  Where are you planning to stay in each place?

Hi uktog.  For some reason, I can only now log on to Cruise Critic under a previous user name Shineson !!!! But actually its me - Evesham.  We have decided to gamble on booking flights, based on the fact that we will still want to do the holiday next year & knowing they will let us change them.  If we are moved to an indirect route - then we will go with the flow.   BA have changed the days on which they operate the non-stop flights to New Orleans, so we have added another day at the beginning of our holiday.  Originally we were doing 5 nights at the Hotel Mazarin and then going straight to boarding the cruise on the 4th.  We are still doing 5 nights at the Mazarin, but are taking up the AQSC 1 night pre-cruise Hotel offer which will benefit us by being on the spot in relation to all the pre-cruise health checks etc.  In Memphis, we are at The Peabody for 3 nights before transferring to Nashville and have a hold on the 154 Luxury Lofts with a balcony overlooking the Mississippi for 3 nights.  

Who would have thought, when we booked our cruises back in 2019, that we would still be waiting!!!  Good luck on your planned holiday.

Go get 'em !!😉

On 5/23/2020 at 5:23 PM, uktog said:

We are due to travel in August 2020 but given the international travel situation, we know we will not be able to do this.  I contacted our UK travel agent as we would be prepared to move the booking to Spring 2021 but we have been told that the cruise line require a change fee of $500 to do this.  Has anyone else made such a booking move and if so were you asked to pay this change fee.  It may of course be because we are UK guests we are being penalised.

Thanks

We have moved our June/July reservation to next October at no charge.  We booked directly through the AQSC though, so maybe its a UK Travel Agent cost.  I would certainly question it in any case, as most companies are waiving cancellation costs in view of the current circumstances.

Thanks everyone.  I will check out both models.  One more question if I may,  but it might need a separate thread - 

I'm booked to do 3 weeks in Mississippi - New Orleans/Memphis/Nashville next June/July - hot & humid. Are there any tips for avoiding problems in such conditions.  I only ask because I recall a friend many years ago having his camera pack up on him because of the damp conditions.

There used to be a massive thread on this fabulous bridge camera.  I am now wanting to upgrade to as near as I can, the same level of camera - i.e. easy, but great results.  Have Panasonic brought out an updated model that is as good as the original, and if so can you please point me in the right direction.  Thanks for your time.

Hi.  We too have booked the American Queen to celebrate a special birthday next year.  We are doing the same itinerary as you but in June/July - hot hot hot, but like you, can't help when we were born !!!!  We are flying out a few days earlier (BA non-stop from Heathrow) to New Orleans.  We are doing our own itinerary for 5 nights pre-cruise, and booking the ships extension after the cruise in Memphis and then on to Nashville.  British Airways fly non-stop home from Nashville to Heathrow, so that's a result.  So excited about this journey, and like you, enjoying the planning.

The backroom staff don't get a share of the service charge so it is not believable they are on exactly the same low wage as the waiters and stewards who recieve bonuses from the substantial amounts paid into the service charge pot.

 

 

 

You cannot have a compulsory charge advertised with less prominence than the fare. Which means the cruise companies would have no option but to include it in the fare (what benefit would there be otherwise anyway).

Back room staff was probably the wrong description. I should have said kitchen staff, cabin assistants - the ones that you don’t see who make it possible for the ones you do see to do their jobs. They most certainly DO receive part of the DSC.

As for a compulsory charge, the biggest benefit to many of us who pay the DSC would be not subsidising the growing number who don’t, and hopefully helping to keep the costs down in the future. There are many restaurants in the UK who put a compulsory service charge on your bill nowadays. People have the option of choice - accept it or go elsewhere.

That is true for the 'behind the scenes' staff, but it isn't true for the stewards and waiters.

 

P&O deliberately underpays these staff and hopes its customers will have a whip round to make up their pay.

 

The issue being highlighted is some customers are declining to contribute and are being criticised, when it is P&O who both created the situation and are exploiting it (at no risk to themselves) to drive up profits.

The Stewards and Waiters are all on the same rising scale of ‘basic’ wage that the back room staff are on, and they all rely on their share of the DSC pot to make it up to a level of living wage which is acceptable to them as individuals. They sign up for the ‘basic’ wage, but also have the expectation and hope that the passengers will recognise their hard work and keep the DSC intact.

Those positions onboard (cabin & dining staff) that provide a direct opportunity for them to earn extra ‘cash tips’ are coveted.

Instead of cruise lines being asked to include gratuities in the up front cost of a cruise (which I agree will give them the opportunity to hike up the prices), I would rather they identify their level of service charge, but make it a compulsory payment. That would at least eliminate the regrettable feeling that a lot of us are subsidising those who currently remove the charge. My vote will always be towards a level playing field, and therefore any future cruises I take will be on lines that either include gratuities, or make it mandatory to pay them.

And US$2000 for a cabin steward/waiter a month is lot of money in Mumbai or Manilla.:(

I've never spoken to any member of staff who receives $2000 a month !!!!

And what about the 3 months training they have to fund themselves before they can even attempt to get a job on the ships. And then there is the multi hundred $ fee they have to pay to an Agency - just to get on their books and finally try to get a job.

Those of us who always pay the full amount will be happy because we will no longer be subsidising those who are not paying.

Spot on - me too. I'm incredulous at the number of tight fisted people who believe they have enough moral highground, to remove the DSC, and make themselves feel better about it by blaming the low wages paid by the cruise line !! We are where we are folks. You booked your cruise knowing its price & knowing the % DSC they charge. OK, so now P & O have hiked up their charges way beyond what to many of us is reasonable. If you haven't paid for your cruise yet - cancel if you feel so strongly about it, and book on another line that sets a reasonable level of DSC, or as I have done, book on an 'All Inclusive' cruise whose top line price for my cruise was acceptable to me - end of.

Pay the new DSC? Why a 40% increase in suggested DSC in such a short space of time. Inflation may have picked up a bit but not to that extent! Shooting themselves in the foot as more and more passengers will have had enough and just remove them in IHO.

Fine, everyone has that choice to make. Just be aware that it’s the staff that you are disadvantaging, and not the cruise line. I actually agree that the hike in DSC is pretty high, but that means I probably wouldn’t book my next cruise with this line. That’s the only way to make your voice heard by the people who make the decisions.

Well, here’s the relevant part of the alleged answer to my question as to whether staff were negatively impacted if passengers removed the gratuity

 

If passengers chose to reduce or remove the amount of the service charge then we feel that this is ultimately their choice as we do not wish to be implying that this is compulsory. If you were to choose to remove the service charge from your account then this would not reflect badly on your cabin steward or impact on them. Each staff member is paid a standard wage and the tips are provided as an additional bonus which staff are fully aware of.

Clear as mud, eh?

I specifically asked for a clear reply; unsurprisingly I did not get one.

I will try a follow-up but don’t hold out a lot of hope.

OK, for what its worth (and I'm probably going to confuse everyone more than ever), but here's my understanding of what happens to the staff when passengers remove gratuities - based on candid discussions with some of the staff onboard, but also with a few, back in their homeland. As an example, I'll use cabin stewards. They are each allocated a certain number of cabins that they are responsible for. The cruise line identify what % of the daily service charge (DSC) is allocated per cabin to the cabin steward - lets say £1 per day, per person - Total £2. So a steward who is responsible for 10 cabins (20 passengers) could expect to receive a £200 service bonus at the end of a 10 day cruise. However, when a passenger in one of his cabins removes the DSC from their account, the Steward is immediately 'down' on his bonus and goes into a sort of negative equity. For arguments sake, I'll say that out of the 10 cabins he looks after, 4 (8 people) have removed their DSC - that's a shortfall at the end of 10 days of £80. Maybe some passengers remove the DSC because they prefer to 'tip' in person with cash at the end of the cruise. But before your cabin steward can retain any of his 'cash' tips, he has to make up his shortfall of £80. Unless his 'cash' tips exceed £80, he's not allowed to keep them. And yes, if you ask the Steward outright whether he will be able to keep any cash tips you decide to give him, he will say yes. He's not going to say no, and risk you not giving anything because you are averse to paying more to the cruise line. The staff onboard cruise lines work as a 'Team'. The front of house staff can only shine for us, because they are backed up by a great number of backroom staff who also rely on a service bonus. That's why they all adhere to the standard service bonus being maintained by handing in their 'extra' cash tip to make up any shortfall. Of course, you will see a very happy Steward if ALL his cabins leave the DSC alone, and if he goes above and beyond on service for you, then it is personal choice whether you pay him/her extra.

My vote goes to everyone factoring in the DSC when booking their cruise and leaving it alone onboard. If you think its too expensive - choose a cheaper cruise.

Sure it works that way. The practice falls directly in line with NCL's compensation process. It relies on each customer contributing in some way to the compensation program. If they cancel the DSC and give cash instead then it is viewed with very little difference, it is still the same basic compensation funding that the thing revolves on. If the customer funds the program through the DSC and then give cash then workers keep the bonus. They work as a team for the greater good of the team.

ray98 - This 100%.

The workers themselves would wish for an easier way to earn a bit extra (by us paying the DSC + extra in the form of a ‘tip’ for extra good service), but they accept the position we place them in. The bottom line for them is they work as a team. We, the passengers don’t see how much the front of house staff rely on the back room staff to enable them to shine for us. They look after each other.

Ah, thanks. I have never heard that before so that is new information. I suspect it is an unworkable rule if it is true, so I remain skeptical.

 

 

Since the DSC isn't usually removed until the end of the cruise, how do the workers know if the passenger is going to remove the DSC on Friday night?

Whether the workers know or not isn't really the issue is it. At the end of the day, the sums will be done, and the books have to balance in order for them to be able to keep all or part of their 'tip'. Whilst I don't know the exact procedure each cruise line takes to sort this out, I suspect that the easiest method would be for all cash 'tips' to be handed in at the end of each cruise, and once the books are balanced, they receive back either a nice lump sum, or a big fat nothing for their trouble. Sadly, I suspect the latter is more the norm.

I’d like to understand the motivation in opting out of the DSC. I’m under the impression this would just be an attempt at cost-saving.

 

 

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I agree, it is pointless unless your motive is to save yourself some money, and then try and make yourself feel good about it by handing out tips. As I've said previously, the individual member of staff does not retain any of the cash tips until the original DSC Pot is brought up level again. I would guess that 9 times out of 10, the 'cash' tips fall short of making up the DSC Pot, and the losers will be the staff themselves, and not the billion dollar corporation as has been intimated.

Not on NCL. Read the "money matters" faq where NCL says you can certainly tip people who have done extra for you. They get to keep the extra and are not terminated.

 

Some lines may have that policy, but not NCL.

They only get to keep the full 'tip' if all their allocated cabin / table guests have left their DSC's in place.

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but when you remove the DSC, the room stewards are given a list and they know you have removed them. Now, as it is has been discussed on CC, any cash they are given is turned over to the tip pool. So you believe you are being generous to those you 'see' helping you, but they get a lot less money for all the work they do.

Correct - and can I just add another dimension to the issue. From what I've been told, your cabin stewards are allocated "x" amount of cabins to clean. They receive a % of the DSC for each cabin/passenger. If anyone removes their DSC, the steward loses out. He/She can claw back some of the shortfall from any 'cash' tips they are personally given. However, they first have to make up the shortfall caused by those who remove the DSC by handing that amount of cash over to the 'Pot'. They can then keep any remaining tips for themselves. I've been given to understand that the same applies to dining / waiting staff too.