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Someone pointed out to me a point of possible confusion.

Some may have noticed that in the headlines about the tax court case cited above it is said "that they could not net their wins and losses across the year" while the Office of Chief Counsel legal memorandum AM 2008-011 does allow for deducting losses from sessions other than the winning sessions.

The difference is that in the tax court case the taxpayers were arguing that the losses from other sessions in the year could be netted with the winning session to determine INCOME. The tax court rejected that saying"...their gambling losses are allowable only as itemized deductions. But because petitioners have elected the standard deduction, they are not entitled to itemize their deductions." The legal memorandum notes "A casual gambler who elects to itemize deductions may deduct wagering losses, up to wagering gains, on Form 1040, Schedule A."

So the headline is a bit misleading. The tax court and the legal memo are in agreement that IF you itemize you can deduct your losses up to the amount of your winnings for the year.

For reference, the tax court decision:

https://bradfordtaxinstitute.com/Endnotes/TC_Memo_2009-306.pdf

13 hours ago, kwokpot said:

That's incorrect. The IRS had no definition on what constitutes a gambling session. It isn't spelled out Anywhere.

4 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

The ruling is in the above post.

If you are referring to post #14, that is not a ruling but rather a report in the Journal of Accountancy concerning a tax court decision.

If you are referring to the Office of Chief Counsel legal memorandum AM 2008-011 then you will find it here:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/am2008011.pdf

and it does not define "session."

Also note that it is advice, not a ruling. At the top it states "This advice may not be used or cited as precedent." It is the kind of thing generated by legal when asked by the field agents for guidance on the handling of an issue. It is not a law or regulation and therefore bears no weight in support of an IRS position, though its existence does allow an estoppel argument against the IRS (it is a sword that can be used against the IRS but not by the IRS).

16 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Nope - same bucket, anyway you look at it!

Unless you are talking bankruptcy. There is a reason for separate corporate subsidiaries. 😇

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

It is pretty difficult to document gambling losses to withstand an audit.  A contemporaneous journal is required, not a complied win/loss statement. Your winning W2-G will identify  the exact slot machine that paid so you must also keep a record of the slot machines you lost.  

                                           *                     *                    *

 

While I agree that for most folks, including me, the effort of documenting everything is not worth the gain, I think you are overstating the difficulty. For example, there is no need to document the exact slot machines on which you lost on each spin. To quote part of the article linked below:

"The IRS in 2008, and later clarified in 2015, created rules for deducting gambling losses called gambling sessions.

The idea was a gambling win wasn’t really a true win until the session was completed. The Tax Court ruled it is impractical to record each and every wager (pull of the lever, deal of the cards or throw of the dice) and therefore wins and losses can be tabulated for each gambling session versus each hand of cards played, et cetera."

See:

https://www.wealthyaccountant.com/2018/12/18/deducting-gambling-losses-with-the-new-tax-bill/

But even that stuff isn't worth it for me. I gamble for fun, not to keep records.

9 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Win/loss reports are not tax documents.   

Neither is the hospital bill you use to back up your medical expense deduction, but it is a starting point. For the full drill, most of which one can get from the win/loss statement see:

https://www.idealtax.com/win-loss-statement-taxes/

First, unless you are a professional gambler you can only deduct gambling losses if you itemize your deductions and then only to the extent of your winnings:

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc419

As for keeping track of your winnings and losses, on Carnival you can request a win/loss report at:

https://oceanplayersclub.com/contact/win-loss-report/

4 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

Yeah I have Jewel, Encore, Prima, and Epic booked. I also have two of their $500 cruise first certificates that I paid $250 for. So that means I’ll be booking at least two more.
 

Looking at one out of Boston. I’ve been holding off on Canada/New England since Carnival stopped going to Boston. But other lines use it as a home port so that’s on my list.

 

I want to do an Alaska on one of their larger ships out of Seattle that stops in Sitka. So that’s on my list.

 

And they seem to be rotating the new ships through Galveston so I’ve got Prima next year. 2026 Viva is in Galveston so I’m looking at that as well. It’ll be nice to check out all of the new ships without having to fly to Florida.

 

 

We took a cruise on the Prima out of Galveston down to the ABC islands last month. It was far and away the best cruise we have ever taken.

The ship is beautiful and the design is apparently excellent in that we never felt crowded - good people flow. The food was consistently the best we have had on any cruise, with the exception of Cagneys (NCL folks love and brag about Cagneys but we found it mediocre; perhaps a bad night.) The crew was outstanding. Once we were looking for a place and asked a crew member. She said "follow me" and took us down a deck to the place we were looking for, and all the crew we came across seemed to have the same helpful attitude.

Now, that is not the norm for all NCL ships. For example on the Breakaway the people flow is not as good and occasionally you hit a people jam. The food on the Breakaway was very good, but often you had to take a pager to wait for a table to open. And the crew was very helpful, but occasionally you would come across one who was a bit clueless.

At the end of January 2025 we have another two week Prima cruise booked and we'll be looking for Viva when it hits Galveston.

I might look into this. If nudity is not a requirement it would add a new dimension to people watching...

16 minutes ago, cellfree said:

I think the “leather trinkets and steak dinners” you speak of are when you hit Diamond. 

Upon reflection I think you are right. Carnival ignored both occasions and I confused the two. But there was zero recognition of the milestone cruise so Greg is still special. 😁

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

... and remember, if you haven't connected to a mobile network while in port, your phone's time will - most likely - not be updated. (it won't update over wifi.) finally, remember that - under certain circumstances - the ship's time may be different than the local time.

Glad you mentioned "most likely." I had to chuckle because on our last cruise my phone, while on airplane mode the entire time, changed a couple of times. On many, many cruises I've never had that happen but on this cruise the time flip-flopped. I couldn't use it as my alarm because I never knew if it would change in the middle of the night.

I suspect the reason is that in addition to checking the phone's date and time options to use my carrier I also had the option to set time based on the phone's location checked. The spam ads Gmail sends all changed to Spanish once we were around the ABC islands so somehow my location was known by the internet.

2 hours ago, Jamman54 said:

Nope. Didn't get either of those on both my 25th and 50th. In fact, my Milestone card on my 50th didn't even have the number 50 on it! Patti said she would put it on with a sharpie! 

Greg is definitely special. On our 25th cruise we didn't even get special cards. Got nothing until half way through the cruse I went by guest services and asked about the leather trinkets you are supposed to get and the steak dinners. They weren't sure what I was talking about..

6 hours ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

(Mentally) going back to my internet beginnings. We'll, I should back up a bit and admit that my first computer was a TRS-80... early model (4K ram, cassette recorder/drive). I never went as far as to build a kit computer though. I subscribed to BYTE magazine (should have kept issue #1, lol). HECK, why didn't I keep all that stuff... and my baseball cards too ! ! !

 

Tom

Am I the only guy who ever used an Osborne computer? Everyone seems to have had a TRS-80 but no one lugged an Osborne to work it seems. I lugged that thing all over Houston doing audits; my left arm is larger than my right to this day 😜 (keeping right hand free to open doors).

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

 Your comment about the Haven stealing space from the rest of the ship was stirring the pot.

 You can make the same point about 'stolen' space with suites.

WilsCM made an innocent, easily understood, rational comment. Why twist it into something nefarious?

We've been to Aruba and Bonaire several several times but Curacao only once. Curacao is our favorite; lots to see and lots of interesting history.

Just hearing "Aruba" brings a smile to my face these days. Not because it is so fun, but because many of the tours still take you to see the "Natural Bridge." The thing is, the Natural Bridge collapsed in 2005.

The first answer you got from mz-s is, in my opinion, the best answer.

Our experience, be it long ago, was that Carnival didn't pay attention to one cruise unless you racked up an amazing pile of points. We got no offers after our first three cruises in one year; with only medium betting on our part. After that first year of cruising we were steadily inundated with offers. 

Even today, racking up 15,000 points on a cruise does not result in immediately better offers, but if we have a good year then the following year we get much better offers even if we don't cruise on Carnival or gamble much that year. We have mostly switched to NCL but still get great offers from Carnival. I expect those will get smaller going forward (since we are mainly NCL now) but for the time being we are still riding the wave of last year.

I find the talk of Carnival not being as transparent as other cruise lines interesting. Our experience is only Carnival and NCL. On Carnival you don't call them, they send you offers. On NCL they have "tier levels" based on points earned during the year (and your level at the end of the year is your beginning level for the next year). They have schedules of benefits for each level, but those are only for things like priority boarding, free water, onboard credit, free or discounted internet and the like. As far as free or discounted cruises you have to call the casino operation, tell them what cruise you are interested in and ask what they can offer you. We were pleasantly surprised that after our first cruise when I called them about a cruise they offered a comped balcony, other than taxes/port fees, gratuities and the usual you have to pay on "free cruises." Strangely, they also have an administrative fee the casino operation charges that is $20 per day per person in the cabin.

Having to call NCL casino operations to find out what kind of deal they can offer on a cruise seems to me to be less transparent than Carnival straight out telling you their offers.

All that is just our experience. Since covid folks have said they have gotten offers even though they don't gamble. Like mz-s said, any answer you get is just speculation.

6 hours ago, Beachcreature said:

I am generally defensive of NCL and have enjoyed all of our 9 cruises with them.  One department, however, that needs improving is the whole drink package process.  You pre pay tips which is usually a plus for staff but when you order drinks, if you have the drink package with the prepaid tips you shouldn't have to tip again.  Once a server realizes that you are not tipping it seems that they prioritize other passengers that are tipping.  I don't have a solution but NCL needs to look into this or lose some loyal passengers.

We're relatively new to NCL having sailed extensively on Carnival, where they shove a paper receipt with a tip line in front of you with every drink, but the "no need to tip" aspect on NCL was an unexpected bonus.

We have rarely seen cash tipping during our NCL cruises but we usually have bartenders give us preferential treatment; giving us a questioning look as we approach and starting on our drinks when we can't even get to the bar. It has nothing to do with tips. It's  because we get to know them. Find out how to properly pronounce their native name, find out where they are from, treat them as a friend and they treat you well. It is not something we set out to do as a strategy, it is just normal for us to talk to folks.

We're darn sure not going to carry around a stack of cash bills and NCL doesn't shove that paper receipt in front of you for a reason (the tip has already been paid). On the last day of the cruise we do put tokens of our appreciation into envelopes and give them to those who have made our cruise special. Without fail we are told it was not necessary and we say we know, but they have been special to us and we wanted to let them know that.

I have a hard time understanding those who object to those cruising on casino comps getting credit in the loyalty program.

The Carnival ships are in separate corporations from the casino operation. They are separate businesses. The ships are in the cruise business and the casino is in the gambling business. The casinos find it to their advantage to buy cruises and drinks packages for certain of their gambling customers and give them to those gambling customers. Some land based casinos do the same thing and buy cruises for their customers. It is not uncommon to find them on NCL. The cruise business gets paid for the rooms and drinks packages.

Following the reasoning of those who don't like including casino comped cruisers, if your grandparents buy you a cruise and drinks package then you should not get credit in the loyalty program. According to their logic only the person who pays for the cruise with their own funds gets credit; no credit for the kids when their parents take them on a cruise, no credit if your boss bought you the cruise as a bonus, no credit if Caesars Entertainment bought you the cruise (which they do on occasion) and no credit if Global Casino Operations (the company that runs the casinos on Carnival, Seabourn, Princess, P&O, Holland America, Costa, Cunard and Aida) bought you the cruise.

The cruise business has its loyalty program and the casinos, and others, have their marketing programs. They are separate things. The fact that casinos, some bosses and some charity raffles buy cruises and give them away is not relevant to the loyalty program.

3 minutes ago, kd1044 said:

 

This is clearly listed in the NCL Website below.  The legal bit about the third-party contractors is for the liability of NCL.  The NCL Excursions tour operators are themselves individually insured.  If there are any issues on the excursion you would have to sue the tour operator and not NCL.  But the wait for delayed NCL excursions is true.  I have seen it several times. 

 

WHY BOOK WITH US?

We work with reputable, local tour operators to offer you a wide variety of excursions to choose from, in every port you’ll visit.

Flexibility & Convenience

We offer you flexibility, convenience and peace of mind.

• Dedicated pre-cruise and onboard specialists are available to assist you
• Convenience of one-stop shopping for all of the ports you’ll be visiting
• Flexibility to modify or cancel excursions without penalty up to 48 hours prior to arrival into port. Any exceptions are noted in the tour descriptions.
• In the event that your tour is delayed, we’ll hold the ship for you
• All tour operators are fully insured

 

 

That's how I read the legal bit also.

12 minutes ago, john91498 said:

What would the older, retired folks do???

I don't know about the others, but I would complain about there not being something like CC...

10 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

You're missing the point. Regardless of whether stores normally open for someone after closing (and they occasionally do as I've had it done for me at least once in the past...), that action does not put the customer in danger with risk of injury or death as this transfer at sea apparently would have.

7 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

Missing the point...Not going to repeat myself again. Just read through the thread.

Calm down my man. No need to stroke out. I think everyone got you point and they have moved on to another point that also supports the position of NCL not being the bad guy. Folks accepting your point and not arguing about it is a good thing...

1 minute ago, MrsTocko said:

Please tell me the store that the employees will open back up an hour after close so I can do my shopping, because I couldn’t get there before closing.  

Unless things have changed drastically, last folks I knew that worked retail started closing out the registers as soon as the door closed. Perhaps a one man company would do it though.

37 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Why wouldn't the port agent have handed over the passports if they were indeed being brought back to the boat?  (Not that I believe they were.  I suspect the CG offered to bring them out and the ship said "no")

In the story the folks never mentioned the port agent. It is not like everyone on the island was sitting around a table trying to figure out how to get them back aboard. I suspect (guess) the port agent received the passports and the passports sat there waiting for the passengers to come get them. The passengers didn't show up. The port agent probably had no idea what the passengers or the coast guard were up to.

While they describe emailing NCL they never mention the on-the-spot port agent. I have always been amazed at the number of experienced cruisers who have no idea the port agent exists. On cruises on which you keep your passport most folks don't seem to know that if you are late to the ship then ship personnel will enter your cabin and search for your passport and turn it over to the port agent to facilitate your necessary travels. 

So I don't think the port agent had any idea what these folks were up to. 

I'm of the opinion the there is too much questionable or missing information.

One thing I would point out is that if the local coast guard did take them out to the ship then of course the ship would not take them. Their passports had been turned over to the local shipping agent and were with the agent on shore. They would not have had passports. When a cruise collects the passports (which they did in this case) it is because they are visiting some ports that require all passports be available for inspection before the ship is allowed entry. If any of their following ports were such ports, or the disembarkation port, these passportless folks would have created problems for the whole ship.

I don't think anyone has anything to worry about as far as the rules changing for the next level thereby taking that away just as one was about to get there.

I also don't think any new loyalty program will be designed to cost Carnival anything more than the current program.

So, my wild guess:

All the current levels and requirements to reach the level will remain the same.

Additional levels will be added to address the problems of "if everyone is special, no one is special." Borrowing terms from the casino cruises, let's say they add a "Ultra" level and the new top level is "Elite."

What they can do to take care of the problems of too many having priority boarding is to just add two higher levels in the priority of boarding. Instead of boarding Diamond then Platinum, their boarding order would be Elite, Ultra, Diamond, Platinum.

They may make all the Diamond and Ultra events with the Captain drinks and hors d'Oeuvres and the Elite event a proper sit down lunch. 

The priority spa and tender items would again have a Elite, Ultra, Diamond priority order.

That kind of approach would not cost Carnival any more than the current cost but would take care of the main areas where everyone being special means no one is special.

Yes, Diamond and Platinum would be less special, but still special.

5 hours ago, RoperDK said:

We are searching for a way to safely park our car for a Brilliance cruise in January.  We usually stay overnight in Biloxi and then park at the port, but I am getting nervous about secure parking.  We are Diamond with Hilton, so a free room night is easy for us.  Don't know about timely shuttles though.  I sometimes have a gimpy knee so hauling luggage and walking is iffy.  Looking forward to your input.  

I second what St. Greg said. Fulton is secure and provides excellent shuttle service. 

We found out about Fulton by following St. Greg's reviews, so thanks St. Greg.