TOTTT

Squeaky, how interesting that you stop three times, I've never heard of that before. I'm guessing that once will be in Ocho Rios and once in MoBay...where will the third stop be?

Really, there should be nothing to worry about. If you take a cruise booked through the ship itself, you'll board a bus, be taken to the excursion destination of your choice, dropped off at the entrance, take part in the activity, and then get back on the bus to be taken to the ship. You will most likely have a tour guide on the bus, whether or not they accompany you inside the attraction or not I'm not sure. There will be little interaction with local citizens of the town in general. The cruise ship tours will not take you anywhere that your family would be 'in danger'...it would put them out of business in a heartbeat.

If you book a tour with a private company, they too have a reputation to uphold, not to mention that safety again comes first for clients. As I mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread, my husband has always stated and follows the rule to the letter: "I will not go anywhere I am in danger, or that my wife (me :)) or family are in danger, or that the people who choose to travel with would be in danger." This rule of thumb will be the same followed by anyone reputable in the independent tour business.

Coming from Britain, there is a lot of history here your country has had a part of...your husband might want to explore that aspect, or customize a trip to include his hobbies or curiosities in general.

You will find some vendors understanding of the cultural differences and not being so vocal with their 'invitations' to stop to browse or chat...they are outnumbered, I agree. But unless one purposely stops to take a breather, to sit quietly and do so, rushing from one activity to the other doesn't give you this time. And asking a particular culture to change their long standing ways is easier said than done.

How old are your children? Maybe you could set up a tour for just your family that would allow time for a visit with a Jamaican family with children of their age group, or a visit to a local school that would fit into their category...allowing them to see first hand, the similarities and differences. Expand this day to include any parts of your days at home and what that might be like here? You have lots of choices for what would fit your family best. If you have the time, do plan ahead when corresponding with the tour provider of your choice...let them know your concerns or worries, let them know any little details that would allow them to 'get to know' your family before actually meeting...you'll be suprised how 'at home' you feel from the first moment here!

When you use the services of an independent tour guide, you have every right to ask them to accompany you anywhere you go during the day...however, there may be times they can't, as was mentioned in relation to a tubing tour. If you have to be dropped off at one point and picked up at another (for instance, at the end of a river tube ride, or a bamboo raft ride) then while you're relaxing and enjoying the excursion, the driver/guide must drive to that pickup spot...or you'll have a driver/guide who was on the excursion with you, most likely having a great time...but when it's over, won't have a vehicle to continure on with the trip...a NEW driver would have to be booked to pick everyone up and return them to your original drivers vehicle!

Mill, I'd love to help with a recommendation, but two friends that used to live in Ochi are no longer there...one migrated to Germany and the other has moved to the west of MoBay. I wish we were in Ochi...we'd love to help and working as a team, while my husband usually does most of the driving, I'm the one that gets to go on the non-driving parts of the excursion activities. :)

Islandsinmyblood and Bunduo..I’m sure that your manners and friendly response to vendors (or anyone you encounter for that matter) are well noted, whether here in Jamaica or elsewhere, and give encouragement to those who you meet to hang in there yet another day. It is just a courtesy, yet many people seem to lack it, and people appreciate the fact that they’re recognized as another human being with feelings. In one way or another, all of we people are part of the family of Earth’s inhabitants. In Jamaica they say “manners carry you through the world” and it’s very true. “Big up!” to you, as we say here. :)

Newt98, your open-mindedness to experience other cultures will both reinforce your appreciation for what you are blessed to have and I’ll bet you come away with a new respect for cultures that many deem ‘uncultured’ or lacking in some way. The Jamaicans as a whole are strong, proud people, with a spirit that allows them to continue to fight for survival in circumstances that would have many just feel like giving up...and underneath the struggles still beat hearts of dignity. Hopefully when you land here, even though for such a short time, you’ll have a chance to relax at some point and sit under a shady tree somewhere, or under a plastic tarp “awning” or in a grocery store..anywhere at all...and have a good chat with a Jamaican about life’s similarities amongst all the differences. A cruise stop won’t even let you scratch the surface of this diverse little island...but should you like what you see, there are plenty of places for a land visit!

Most people start with Ocho Rios or Montego Bay or Negril, and then branch out from there...or return again and again to that one city or town that first captured their hearts.

Mill231, you brought up some excellent points...again, if you weren’t on a time schedule, a conversation with the man who was yelling would have possibly made an impression on him...he would, if nothing else, remember what you said and would watch then each day, observing the approach used by the people who do get business, and maybe, hopefully, begin to copy them.

I don’t know what the boy who was searched did to warrant it, but I would assume it was thought that he had weed on his person somewhere. If your boys are with you, and you’re all with a responsible tour guide/driver, I’m sure you’ll have no problems at all.

I do wonder when I read posts by people who have encountered difficulties of one type or another, or just had questions that were going unanswered, where in the heck were their drivers/guides? To me, it’s all part of the package...not just dropping someone off and then going to sleep in the bus or chatting with friends, but staying with the people who have chosen to put their confidence in you and being there for them throughout the day (unless it is requested and understood that the visitor is comfortable on their own in a certain location or activity instance.)

If venturing out and about in town, even in the tourist areas, you will encounter the occasional person who will ask you if you need anything for your vacation pleasure..and yes, the offer can include anything from drugs to company to tours to heaven only knows what.

If they don’t take the words “Thanks, I’m all set” as a no, and persist in following you with yet more offers, just give the usual back and forth hand wave that means “NO” as you keep walking. Should they still persist, immediately walk into the first shop right next to you...chill for a minute while the person moves on, and then continue on your way.

Why the offers for drugs (usually marijuana or cocaine)? Because many people DO come to Jamaica looking for that..and these guys want to be sure that they don’t miss a hopeful sale...the old adage of supply and demand.

I do believe if those of you on cruises were able to stay a day in either of the big cruise ship cities (both MoBay and Ochi) on a day when the cruise ships were not in port, you’d see a more relaxed tourist area.

KLCT, my husband is Jamaican, and he suggests an different response when approached by someone to stop and look at this or buy that, or someone telling you that you NEED to purchase something unwanted...he suggests that you answer the question or comment with "Do I have a choice?" (who is going to tell you no?? :) ) When the vendor answers "Of course" or something similar, you then respond with a smile and say "Then I choose not to, thank you" and keep going. Should they keep asking you, you just keep repeating "Do I have a choice?"...the repetition puts the game to an end!

Southbayer, the "gauntlet" of vendors that people refer to at Dunn's River Falls is to your right as you wind your way out of the park. I've read that others go out the "entrance" gate (but not without the guards there protesting somewhat) and have read posts by others where there guide takes them out some different path that avoids the craft market.

A craft market is a craft market...so to avoid one you'll need to avoid them all. Perhaps you'll be more comfortable at the established stores in the different tourist shopping plazas...prices are set and hopefully marked or posted on the items or on a sign above them...I'm not familiar with too many of these particular stores in Ochi on an individual basis, but if they're like the ones here in Negril, you might be able to bargain minimally on the total purchase price, especially if you buy items in bulk.

Caroline, Twinkletoes (and others)...I do understand your comments re: vendors asking you to stop and look at what they have, or asking as you walk about if you need this, that or the other. I'm don't know about the culture of the islands on the rest of the cruise ship docking itinerary, but as expanation of Jamaica, especially in the cities, what you are experiencing is really no different than what Jamaicans themselves experience. (consider it a compliment?)

When my hsuband (a Jamaican) and I go to the capital city of our parish (think of it as similar to a state in the US, or a province in Canada) to shop for clothes, household items, groceries, etc....as one walks the sidewalks there are always 'roaming vendors' to encounter...those who do not have shops or stalls of their own, but rather carry their wares in a basket or box or whatever.) These items can be anything from q-tips, shoe polish and washclothes to heads of garlic and bunches of scallions to belts and flip-flops to phone cards etc. We're asked if we need anything that they have...if we do, we buy it...if we don't we just say "No thanks" and we continue on our way as do they.

If we go to the open air market to get fruits and vegetables and he's picking out carrots from one table, the vendor next to the one where we are is calling out "Ras (nickname because of the way he wears his hair), come see mi cabbage dem" (come and look at my cabbage) and should we then stop at that table, another vendor may call out "Ras, why yuh nuh wan buy mi mango?" (why don't you want to buy my mangos?) and the next one is offering a slice of watermelon to try hoping that we'll find it good and though not on our 'shopping list' we impulse buy and take home a whole or even half a melon..and the orange vendor peels an orange for us to eat on the spot hoping that a bag of his oranges goes home with us. Sometimes we purchase these items, sometimes we don't...it all depends on whether we have the money or not, or find the item something we need or don't.

Jamaicans call out to Jamaicans to 'advertise' what they have...you are just encountering the way it's done here. However, if one doesn't know the culture, I can see why you think you're being targeted as a "tourist."

One day while in the Ocho Rios craft market at the end of the Dunn's River Falls excursion, I sat with the vendors to chat. I watched tourists pass through...some looking at stalls, some rushing past as if something was going to bite them should they slow down. Some of the vendors would call out "Come, stop, look at my things"...90% of the visitors wouldn't say a word, wouldn't give acknowledgement....5% would growl out a "NO!!!...5% would browse briefly (some buying, some not).

The vendors asked me (being 'foreign born') - why the tourists were rushing, why they were rude not to even look up, or why they were so angry with their reponses. I explained as best I could that if they were rushing it most likely was for one of two reasons...they had an itinerary to stick to, a time limit for their stops and had to rush to the tour bus to get to their next stop. Or they were rushing because they heard scare stories about aggressive vendors. Or they were told not to make eye-contact because (heaven forbid) someone would ask them to buy something. Or they snarled a "NO!!" because they were having a bad day, or for any of the already mentioned reasons.

All expressed the same sentiment...(and again this is cultural)...it's rude not to greet people, one can say no without being angry or afraid. It is considered "old world" manners here to look someone in the eye and greet each other in passing (Good morning, good day, good afternoon, good evening, good night). Looking someone in the eye and saying "No thank you, we already purchased something like that earlier"...or "You're things look lovely but we don't need anything, thank you.".....or "No thanks but I wish you better luck with another prospective buyer and hope you have a good day." Anything at all to show manners...to acknowledge the vendor as a human being with feelings.

I bless the fact every day that being a vendor in a craft market, or on the sidewalk is NOT how I have to make my living. I have yet, after nine years of living in the country, been able to come up with an opening line that would make someone want to stop and see my wares (and most likely nothing different than they haven't already looked at or passed by.)

"Beggars" are a whole different issue of course, with a different way of response (yet still not dehumanizing.)

I wish there was more info given out on planes and cruise ships to explain more of the culture of the island, or cultural practices of the people...maybe it would give more understanding before landing or docking so that at least one would understand why certain things are encountered.

For those not wanting to encounter any interaction on the streets or beaches, the all-inclusive hotel/resort day passes will allow you some time to visit the island and have no interaction with Jamaicans unless they are in staff uniform and there to help with food or drinks, or the vendors that have been 'approved' by the hotel or resort to set up a craft area...and again, you shop or you don't, it's up to you...

For those who want to experience a Jamaican city or town (Ochi or MoBay or Negril) and want to take in beach time or a craft market, or an open air market...let your guide know you want them to be there with you to give you tips or advice or advise you on prices...there should be no extra charge for this, it's part of your day's outing. If you're on a big tour bus, and your group is large, and it's the type tour where the bus driver just drops you off and picks you up, you may not have this option, I'm not sure...but it doesn't hurt to ask the driver if they are allowed to accompany you.

It's your vacation, you should enjoy it, you shouldn't be afraid to ask questions (a hundred of them if need be!!) so that you can feel comfortable both before and during your stop. It all falls in line with what Twinkletoes said about taking the time to find out as much information as possible 'ahead of time'.

And Twinkletoes, I LOVED this comment of yours...very, very correct:

What may scare me, or not interest me, may be something that someone else doesn't have a problem with...or wants to do.

Everyone is different, everyone has different tastes and desires of what to experience...and every experience is possible here. Everyone here on this message board, is on the right track...you have a chance to ask questions, to read first hand information from others, to plot and plan your day so that it is right in line with what you desire...and maybe, just maybe, when encountering others with questions about Jamaica, or worries about the island or the Jamaican people themselves, you can pass on some tips, or refer them to message boards like this one...or they're lucky enough to deal with a travel agent who has themselves an understanding about the cultural ways of any location where their people will be stopping, and have spent time themselves actually interacting within a particular country and takes time to help plan those port stops to fit an individuals needs.

I hope none of you reading this feels like I'm "lecturing" :(...I'm just trying to give some info from "the other side of the fence so to speak. :)

Twinkletoes, you hit the nail on the head when you said that to enjoy your time on the island (ESPECIALLY if here for only a day's stop) "you have to do your research ahead of time."

That's why forums and message boards like this one for cruise ship people, or Trip Advisor.com (for people both on cruise ships or doing land stays) or Negril.com or Treasurebeach.net for people doing land stays in those towns, or Jamaicans.com for tourism and Jamaican info in general, all serve to make the world a smaller place...to allow people to give first hand information to newbies to the island, or give more inside information to people returning for the second, tenth or fiftieth visit.

People willing to take a little time before a vacation to read up and ask questions or people who have already returned from a vacation but still visit these various message boards to continue to share first hand opinions or tips with others are all on the right track. People who use message boards are already three steps ahead of the game so to speak.

I'm glad to hear you loved Jamaica and had a wonderful time and that if you come back again, you'd still get off the ship. I'm sure you did some research ahead of time and knew where it was you wanted to go, what you wanted to see and experience when you made your visit. I'm sure you read plenty of advice both pro and con and made your own decisions after filtering through both sides and that's why everything turned out well.

People using message boards have that same advantage, and that's what all people who love a particular place, no matter where it is in the world, hope all visitors do.

I'm not sure I've ever read a post on this board from people advising visitors to just get off the ship and wander around on their own...perhaps I misunderstood New2cruzing and thought the question was "Do I have to take an excursion with a group as opposed to just my partner/family and I"...and that is what I intended to convey in my response. Some people love large groups when traveling, others prefer to travel with just those they left home with...some people are content to take packaged tour without any deviation (maybe because they don't know what all else is in an area to explore?). Other people prefer to customize trips to take in places that fit their interests, hobbies, similar occupations at home, etc. and these areas of exploration may turn out to be a combination of "tourist" and "local" places. Some people want to experience a place with activities and spots that residents of that country live daily (no matter how mundane) just to experience another culture, a different way of life...and to have no interaction with residents of their own home countries just for a few hours of a total vacation to more fully understand the differences and similarities between themselves and residents of a country.

The key perhaps is when we all encounter people who are considering a trip to Jamaica (or any foreign country for that matter) is to encourage them to put out a little effort...by taking some time to read message boards, taking some time to ask questions, tossing ideas back and forth with the friends or family they'll be traveling with, doing a bit of planning and then...come (to Jamaica) and have the time of their lives as many members of this board have done and will continue to do.

If by 'alone' you mean with just you and your partner or family, yes you can do this, you don't have to be part of a large group. Especially if you're a first timer to the island, or even a repeat cruise person who has only been here once or twice for a day each, I wouldn't recommend getting off the ship and just trying to flag down a cab from the road...contact a reputable tour company and make plans in advance..

Remember this...no reputable driver (nor company that employs multiple drivers) will go anywhere that they themselves are in danger...or where their own families would be in danger. Therefore, they're not about to take YOU anyplace where you would be in danger. Reputable drivers and reputable companies want people to enjoy themselves...they want people to share the word with others that it is indeed worthwhile to get off the ship and see some of what this very diverse island has to offer.

Yes there was some unrest in MoBay last year...NOT in areas directly involving tourists. The unrest involved police shootings of some innocent citizens which led to some rioting in areas on the fringes of MoBay but areas drivers might have had to pass through on their way to points of interest east (heading towards Ochi.) Tour buses were not stopped or harrassed, but they were slowed down if caught in these traffic areas. If the drivers did not explain to the tourists they were carrying what had been going on to cause this, what recourse local citizens have to make their voices heard, I can see where tourists would look out the bus or van windows and be thoroughly confused or worried...what a shame that lack of conversation continued or continues to lead to more misunderstandings.