NancyNM

I voted "Will not be cruising with no casino".  As a solo traveler, I really enjoyed the Casino on Crystal because it was very friendly, I got to know the dealers, etc.  I never witnessed them trying to lure people in to gamble -- I don't think that was ever a thing, unless maybe they were just greeting a previous gambler who they recognized.  It was one of my main nighttime entertainment activities.  I am able to budget my gambling money so that if I was losing I limited it to what was acceptable to me for the entertainment derived.  And sometimes I won.  So the expense wasn't a factor.

So I am very disappointed to learn that the casino will be gone.  

I also have changes in my life that make it uncertain when I might go on another cruise, Crystal or otherwise, so my vote doesn't mean much right now anyway.  I will keep an eye on things and could change my mind in the future and give them a try.

I saw an add Oceania had a sale for singles . Iv been watching for a sale in jan. I requested a qoute as you cant do it yourself on line. They came back for a 10 day at $6800 . Thats rediculous. One of the cruise discount sites has a sale on same cruise for $2600 with a $550 room credit for a double ocp. which at full price would be $5200 less $550 or $4650. For a solo promotion thats not very good.The rep said the sale is on limited sailings , not the one I want as yet Silverside has offered me a 10 day same date for $4100. But Iv found at about 120 days out they usually want to fill ships and will eather lower solo sup. or lower price . So Ill wait to see what others offer Im flexable so I can go at short notice . If anyone sees a deal on a jan 10 day or more higher end cruise let me know CARL

Carl, you don't mention what itinerary you are looking for, but Crystal Cruises 13 day Panama Canal cruise (Crystal Symphony Jan 4 2012 LA to Miami) cost me less than $4k for a single, including a $500 OBC (plus some perks from the travel agent).

There is also one running the other direction (Crystal Serenity Jan 4 2012 Miami to LA 14-day) on Crystal's other ship, that will cost more (mainly because Serenity's cheapest cabin is more expensive than Symphony's cheapest cabin). It should come in under $5k.

Crystal has 25% single supplement on their Oceanview cabins, so it prices out pretty well for a single, even though it's a luxury line.

- Nancy

What casino was this ???????:D:D:D

Santa Ana Casino, Northwest of Albuquerque NM.

Okay, craps experts.... I was at an indian casino today that had the most favorable layout I've ever seen. First, they have a FREE buy on the 4 and 10 for $5 (as in, no vig or anything -- you bet $5 you win $10...). No house edge at all on this bet.

They also had a field bet I don't think I've ever seen before. It paid triple (3x) on both the 2 and 12! Can somebody check my math? The way I figure this out, it comes out to an even percentage bet (20 ways to win, 20 ways to lose), so again no house edge at all on this bet!

I also noticed they paid 33 for 1 on the hopping hard-ways. I think this is usually 30 to 1 (or 31 for 1). Still not a good bet, but not as bad! I *think* all the other payouts in the center of the table were standard, but not sure because I don't normal play them. I might have seen 17 for 1 on something, but not positive.

Anyway, despite all this, they were still making money off me today.

Somebody check my math on the Field bet with 3x 2 and 12? Is this a 0-edge bet?

- Nancy

P.S. I calculated like this:

20 ways to lose: 5: 4 ways, 6: 5 ways, 7: 6 ways, 8: 5 ways = 20 ways

20 ways to win: 2: 1 way (x3), 3: 2 ways, 4: 3 ways, 9: 4 ways, 10: 3 ways, 11: 2 ways, 12: 1 way (x3) = 20 ways

In my opinion this is the best casino afloat for these reasons :(1) it is 100% non smoking all the time (2) well lit and cheery (3) the most penny machines afloat, and they are current video slots with bonus rounds.

 

On most ships I can sneak in right at opening and have about half an hour before the smoke drives me out.

I was just on the Rhapsody. Loved the non-smoking part. It's not a large casino since Rhapsody is not a mega-ship. The casino was okay and had a nice selection of slots (they have 165 slot machines, don't ask how I know that :)) and table games. The staff was nice.

But I didn't like the craps table. It was mini-craps (meaning sort of half a layout, and only one dealer doing the whole thing) and the dealers really didn't know what they were doing. They were nice enough, and I managed to make a little money, but it was kind of tedious and stressful dealing with the dealer mistakes (had to watch all your bets constantly to make sure they paid you!).

There was a very experienced player who used to be a dealer and was playing a fairly complicated strategy (he was also mostly losing, as far as I could tell) and he basically had to constantly be telling the dealers what to do. I can't imagine how the poor dealer would have coped if the table had been full and several players were doing high-maintenance betting strategies!

Anyway, I'd still sail on that ship again, but there are definitely better ship casinos out there if craps is your game.

- Nancy

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I don't like laying odds on 6/8, but I will on 4/5/9/10. (Just a personal preference.) On a $5 table, will they let me lay $6 on a 4/10 to make $3 and lay $6 on a 5/9 to make $4? Or would I have to bet enough so that a winning bet is at least the table minimum, i.e., lay $10 to make $5 on a 4/10 and lay $7.50 to make $5 on a 5/9? In Vegas, I saw both ways so I have no idea which way is the consensus/majority view. My preference would be to bet the minimum on odds while still getting mathematically proper payouts. Hey, I'm cheap, but not stupid. ;)

I've never seen any casino enforce any kind of "minimum" odds. I don't think they'd let you lay $1 against 4/10 (or $2 against 5/9) because it's impossible for them to pay anything on it, but when betting the pass line, if you bet too little on odds, it would just get paid at even money, and they won't care (as you're only hurting yourself).

I'd say certainly try it (i.e. lowest amount that gets you paid correctly), and see if they complain.

I am pleasantly surprised you know about HOP BETS. I love them. But remember they are ONE ROLL bets.

However, where I live they do not allow them. I know they do not allow them in Atlantic City either. I believe they allow them in Vegas and Biloxi though.

The reason why places do not allow them is that the bet cannot be verified by a camera review as there is no specific box marked for a hop number (except the Yo, midnight, and snake eyes). Those one roll bets are on the layout and are hop bets but they are marked on the layout. The rest of them aren't and this poses a problem for some casinos. But where they are allowed, I will play them. :D

I have seen layouts (I think most recently they were in Vegas on the Strip) that show all the hop bets on them across the top of the center of the layout, so the bet can be placed there as easily as the more common 2/3/11/12 bets. And plenty of people were making the bet.

It's still not a good bet though! Way too much house edge on it.

Where is there?

Santa Ana Star Casino (Indian casino near Albuquerque).

Sorry, I doubt you'll find such a favorable table on a cruise ship!

Damn, these injuns are blowing some money. Just wait their bean counters let thme know what it's costing them. It'll probably change.

I just went there today -- first time in about a year I think. They still have the "Free Buy" on 4 and 10, so they've had it for at least a year and a half. It is printed right on the layout. I was playing $5 places bets on them and getting paid $10.

As usual, I seemed to be the only one at the table taking advantage of the bet. Others might have been betting it as part of placing all the numbers, but it didn't seem like they were altering their play style to take it into account or anything.

So really, I doubt the casino is losing much on this at all, since not many were really betting it. And because they have that bet, I choose it over the other casinos I might go to, so they are getting my business for it!

I think if a casino in Vegas had that bet people would sure take advantage of it, but maybe in an obscure indian casino near Albuquerque, it's not such a big deal...

Anyway, I'm not complaining! (well, except I had a losing session today, despite that bet -- I can complain about that! :(

P.S. Just to be clear what this bet means, the house has 0 edge on it. It pays out exactly at the true odds. So, if somebody chose to stand there and play only the 4 and 10 (boring...), then in the long run (on average, etc.), the casino would not make a dime from them!

Nancy, if the casino is letting you buy the 4,10 then pay the vig after, you would be a fool not to take advantage.

No, there is NO VIG! They have a buy (place) bet, minimum $5 that pays off at true odds. I bet $5, I win $10 -- that's it!

Yes, it's crazy, but true!

Nancy

Reading you guys is exactly why I am reticent to even step up to a craps table. You are speaking Greek and I have no idea what you are saying.

I will stick to Bj's(cards and otherwise):D.Maybe not as exciting but at least I feel that I have a small idea what is going on.

 

Cheers to all!

Well, the nice thing about Craps is you can just ignore a lot of what's going on at the table and still play your game.

The Buy bets they were discussing are a pretty advanced thing that probably 90% of players don't have a clue about. And there is a lot of jargon that players use that may make it seem extra confusing...

It's not really a difficult game if you read a book about it and then just focus on making a few of the bets (preferably the ones with the lowest house edge, like pass/don't pass and come/don't come and placing/laying odds). And just ignore all the bets in the middle of the table and you are doing well.

Unfortunately I think a lot of novices gravitate towards the easy to understand bets, like the Field bet, big 6/8, hardways, etc. Unfortunately those bets all have huge house edges on them.... When I say huge I mean up to 15-20% house edge when normal passline is worst case 1.4% house edge (and gets lower the more odds you bet).

And if you play the game enough, you'll pick up knowledge about all the other bets you shouldn't be making, even if you never make them!

Here is a nice table I found by googling ("craps house edge"):

• 
  
• Pass/Come 1.41%
  
• Don't Pass/Don't Come 1.40%
  
• Pass + 1 x Odds 0.85%
  
• Pass + 2 x Odds 0.61%
  
• Pass + 5 x Odds 0.32%
  
• Pass + 10 x Odds 0.18%
  
• Pass + 100 x Odds 0.02%
  
• Field (2:1 on 12) 5.56%
  
• Field (3:1 on 12) 2.78%
  
• Any Craps 11.11%
  
• Big 6,8 9.09%
  
• Hard 4,10 11.11%
  
• Hard 6,8 9.09%
  
• Place (to win) 6,8 1.52%
  
• Place (to win) 5,9 4.00%
  
• Place (to Win) 4,10 6.67%
  
• Place (to lose) 6,8 1.82%
  
• Place (to lose) 5,9 2.50%
  
• Place (to lose) 4,10 3.03%
  
• Proposition 2,12 13.89%
  
• Proposition 3,11 11.11%
  
• Proposition 7 16.67%
  

The worst bet (from house edge POV) I will ever make is placing the 6/8 (1.52% house edge). Playing pass/come with 2x odds gets you ~0.6%.

On the other hand, people who bet "Big Red" (Proposition 7 -- a one roll bet that the 7 will roll. Odds are 6-to-1 and it pays 4-to-1) are giving the house a whopping 16.67% edge! Popular bets like "any craps", "yo/11" and "hard ways" have ~10% house edge. No thanks for me!

So if you want to learn craps, focus on pass/come or don't pass/don't come (all with odds) and you will find the game much easier to understand, and also will be playing it to your best advantage!

Start by just understanding the passline bet with odds, because come bets work exactly the same way, just starting from a different die roll.

Ok, $20 4 or 10, you have a choice, have it pay $36 or pay the buck up front, get paid $40, pay another buck to leave it up there, now I know where your coming from, the problem is, there are not many places that are now letting you pay the vig after the win, now :(

An indian casino near me has (or at least did have last time I was there, and for many months before that) free buy on the 4 and 10, with no special minimum (i.e. you didn't need to buy it with $20, you could buy it with $5). This was printed right into the felt on the table layout, not some special short-term thing.

So, I could place $5 on the 4 and 10 and get paid $10 when it hits. Zero edge for the house. An amazing bet, and yet I was generally the only one taking advantage of it (other than people who were placing lots of numbers anyway). Naturally I modified my normal play style to include always placing those number! In fact the smartest thing would just be to sit there and only places those numbers, but that would be too boring.

The fact that so few people were taking advantage makes me ponder how willing people are to bet at a game they really don't understand at all....

Personally I'm not particularly lucky or unlucky -- I've had my share of hot rolls, but on average I roll a 7 about 16.6667% of the time ;-/

Hi Nancy

Just curious, how have you been able to actually keep up with your shooting percentage at the table. That is awesome. I don't know that I would be able to keep up with my bets, my winnings, roll, and keep up with a count of the numbers rolled to calc that. Do you track any other numbers?

Heh heh! That was a joke!! :D

The odds of rolling a 7 are 1/6 = 16.6667%. I don't keep track of my own personal rolling percentage, but just have no reason to believe it deviates from the average.

I have never seen hostility against a female craps player. This is strange to me. Then again, I have never seen a female wrong bettor. [...]

Odd that you haven't run into many female wrong bettors. I have seen quite a few in my time -- probably the same percentage as male wrong bettors.

I also haven't found being a female craps player to draw that much attention, except occasionally if you have a complete newbie female shooter that people hope will be lucky. Personally I'm not particularly lucky or unlucky -- I've had my share of hot rolls, but on average I roll a 7 about 16.6667% of the time ;-/

I have had the dealers ask me if I was a dealer, I guess because I knew too much of the lingo -- told them they had "dirty stacks" and that kind of thing...

If I was going to generalize at all, I'd say most female craps players who are alone (as opposed to just hanging on their boyfriend/spouse or in a big group) tend to actually know the game pretty well, compared to the average male craps player.

P.S. Most of my craps playing has been in Reno, Vegas, or Indian casinos near Albuquerque. I have only played on a cruise ship once, and as I mentioned earlier on this thread *everybody* was playing the dark side cruise!

I just booked a five nights balcony for $733, solo with a senior special.

 

It is on the Radiance of the Seas round trip from San Diego, Sept 25, 09.

 

The balconies were actually less than interiors for senior specials!:)

 

Come join me!

I'm on this same sailing, too. $644, solo NM residence rate, for D1 balcony on the hump! I got that price reduction a couple weeks ago, it's about $50 higher now.

And yeah, some of the balconies are cheaper than some of the interior / oceanviews!

Yo...from the link you posted:

 

"Wrong or "Don't" bettors are generally despised by right bettors. They usually stand at one of the corners of the table, silent and inconspicuous. I've always taken delight in watching them lose. Nothing makes me happier than to watch a shooter make his point when there's a stack of chips sitting in the "Don't pass" section of the layout. Don't bettors wait patiently for seven to be rolled. When and if it is, they must celebrate in silence and collect their "ill gotten gains" without fanfare."

 

Somehow I picture a Don't player dressed like father time, or an undertaker, black cloak and all HAHA. :p

I don't have any problem with Don't bettors. The way I see it, at least somebody at the table is winning when the table is cold! And I will switch to their side if it's icy enough! But I'm also not very superstitious about the dice. I certainly don't think that the way somebody else is betting affects the dice in any way.

I would get irritated if a Don't bettor was obnoxious about gloating when they won, but that would be because they were obnoxious, not because they were a Don't bettor.

And yeah, it is easiest to play Don't from the end of the table, because of the position of the Don't Come box.

Nancy

Let me ask you this. I may have already can't remember.

Who has the advantage when the point is made? The right bettor or the wrong bettor?

Before point is established, the right-bettor has the advantage.

After the point is established, the wrong-bettor has the advantage.

Before the point is established, the right bettor has 8 ways to win (7,11) and 4 ways to lose (2,3,12). But after the point is established, the 7 is more likely than any individual point (either 2-1, 3-2 or 6-5).

Before the point is established, the wrong bettor has 3 ways to win (2,3) and 8 ways to lose (7,11). A 12 is a push. But after the point is established any individual point is less likely than a 7 (either 1-2, 2-3 or 5-6). If the 12 wasn't a push, the wrong bettor would actually have a statistical advantage.

Some wrong bettors don't like to play the 6 or 8 when it's the point. They will "wave it off", meaning they get their money back, which the casino is happy to do. They are fools, since once the point is established their best bet at the table is that 6 or 8 don't pass (which pays even money on 5-6 odds).

You can never take down your pass-line bet after a point is established, because the casino has the advantage at that point (you have the advantage before the point is established). You can always take down your don't pass bet after a point is established, because YOU have the advantage at that point (and you have the disadvantage before the point is established).

Pass and Don't Pass have exactly the same odds overall, they just differ in when the player has the advantage and when the house has the advantage.

I play don't pass sometimes when the table is cold, but I don't enjoy it. The rhythm isn't as exciting. I was once on a cruise ship where the table was ice cold and all the players decided to play don't pass. For the whole rest of the cruise! Soooo boring! I call it the "Cruise ship phenomenon" as you would never get stuck like that in a real casino (the players would change over and/or you could go down the street to a different casino...).

I love craps. I play pass w/2 come bets + odds, and will place the 6 and 8 (sometimes not until I've won at least one point -- depends on my bankroll vs. the minimum bets) if they're not covered by the time I have my 3 points. Ignore all the bets in the middle of the table!