HappyInVan

Good review. I largely agree with your observations. Good wifi, good service from lack of pax, disappointing Sakura, luxury buffet. 

IMO, their 'curry' is the Hong Kong or Japanese variety. Not Thai as advertised on the menu.

Don't know how long they can carry on, particularly with the huge prices for Explora 2.

1 hour ago, nw gardener said:

Ship:  I never found out the final passenger count but it was a FULL ship. Don't know how things were resolved for 2 couples, but there were very irate people at guest services the first day over both being booked into the same cabin. I was there ordering flowers for my cabin but didn't stick around to listen to the shouting.  Both appeared to have paperwork in hand.  Later DH spoke to a family (different) where the adult daughter booked a balcony , solo, next to parents,  was moved out of her cabin after boarding,   into an Oceanview,  then an inside a few days later. DH did not ask how she was compensated, but she told DH she didn't want to move from her balcony,  she may have been a victim of the double booking I saw. There were times where it was difficult to find seats at different venues,  crow's nest, lido, pool area, etc. You can find the  ebb and flow of the crowds and work around them we found.

 

Unbelievable!!! 🫢

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Here is the order book until 2029.  As you can see, most new cruise ships are being built with alternate fuel option (as indicated by the green square). Based on current trends, I would expect that IF HAL orders a new ship (IMO a big if at this point); than it is probable that it will have some type of alternate fuel.

 

Thanks.

Please note that Princess will have a Meraviglia-size LNG vessel in 2024. Another one of these have been ordered. The LNG vessels are all huge.

TUI cruises will have the last of its methanol ships (110k GT) built in 2024. Then, only larger LNG ships.

The Silver Nova/Ray (SilverSea) is small (54k GT), and runs on hybrid. But, out of HAL's price point.

Looks like HAL (if the brand survives) will run on diesel fuel for the foreseeable future. 

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

 

For certain. Much preferred to those who think they are.

 

I'm really glad that you said that.🙄

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

First off, there are no "hotel generators".  All diesel generators on the ship can power propulsion, engineering systems, or hotel load as needed.  

We are so lucky that we have an expert on this forum.

Anyway, the next big thing for big sea vessels need to be LNG. Just look at the big thick columns of smoke from the funnels of older ships. Even a newish ship like Koningsdam pours out yellowish emissions. 

In recent years LNG technology has to have improved and become more competitive. And, LNG is readily available around the world. 

I doubt that  biofuel would be viable for large ocean vessels. 

18 hours ago, loge23 said:

Explora doesn't seem to advertise very much compared to say Viking or Oceania, the latter two from which we get almost daily mailings.

I don't think the ownership group of Explora is worried. They command a multi-billion dollar fleet of container ships, cruise vessels, and their little boutique play Explora. They can afford to wait until the word of mouth catches up with potential cruisers - or they can jump right into the advertising game which many cruisers have become conditioned to. 

 

 

 

Explora has only one ship in operation.  Very expensive to run a proper promotional campaign.

Explora and MSC are professional organizations.  There will be targets and schedules.  Recently. Explora lost their top management abruptly. So, all is not well.

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

LNG powered diesel engines have been around for 20 years, not sure why you think this is "next-gen" technology.

 

 

AFAIK LNG vessels were not in common use 20 years ago.

AS you may know, LNG is an important  new source of commercial fuel for ships. Natural gas is a by-product  of crude  oil production.  In the past, NG was released and flared.

Today, LNG can be used instead of heavy diesel oil. A double win for the environment.and human health.

Hopefully,  LNG can be quickly  down-scale to medium-size cruise ships.

I have confidence in the progress of electronic research. Every 5-7 years, electronic performance  increases by 100%. So, in 10 years, I hope that hybrid ships could run on stored energy for a few hours.

There is an additional  benefit to an auxiliary power supply. The ship could remain under power if the main power source fails. Surely a life saver for seamen?

In another generation, I expect interesting  possibilities for smaller all-electic boats and ships.

For planners, the future is just on the horizon.  For ship owners, it's time to make choices.  No?

1 hour ago, C 2 C said:

Does anyone know the actual profitability of any of the different divisions or any ship class?

I wouldn't  worry about it. Wait for the dust to settle. Then decide what  to do.

Looks like CCL is finally cleaning  house. How clean will it end up?

5 minutes ago, C 2 C said:

Carnival is absorbing all the P&O ships into the Carnival fold... (I think according to the news I received which may differ depending on your sources.)

Oh My! Could this happen to HAL too?

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What "next-gen" technology is Carnival bringing out?  And, yet, as noted above in this thread, HAL is experimenting with bio-fuel, while Carnival is not.

Carnival has the Excel class (181k GT) "First LNG-powered cruise ship based in North America"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruise_Line#Future_fleet

Hx has the hybrid electric technology (21k GT)

https://www.hurtigruten.com/en-us/expeditions/ships/roald-amundsen/

I'm really interested in the all-electric vessels. They can go where others can't. How big do they have to be? How expensive per pax?

Anyway, I'm off to Whistler. You guys keep yourselves occupied.

10 hours ago, TRLD said:

On a per day basis the difference is quite a bit more than 30% in their case.

 

10000/14 = 714 for HAL

 

8000/21 = 380 for NCL

It gets close when you take 30% off HAL. In any case, this is a personal sample of one. Its different itineraries. We don't know the ships involved. Were they in the same regions, time of year etc. 

To recap, there are two major costs associated with running a ship. Operating costs (food, fuel, wages etc) and maintenance costs (drydock inspection and repairs etc).

Older smaller ships are more expensive to operate per capita. So, net revenues have to be high enough to cover the extra cost per pax. In the case of HAL, net revenues per pax have to be even higher (compared to Carnival) to provide premium food and service.

The problem is that longtime HAL pax have noticed a drop in quality. Suggesting that the 'premium' HAL earns has not been enough to maintain standards.

But, that's alright as long as HAL fills the ships and earns enough to offset higher costs per capita. There is a rotation in pax. Quality conscious pax leave, and value customers dominate.

The problem with ship longevity is the maintenance costs. Rising steeply after Year 15, and again after Year 25. Does HAL earn enough to keep old ships operating?

Crystal is at an entirely different price point, and it has old ships. Disney seems to charge amazing fares, and Disney Magic is older than any of HAL's current ships. However, HAL does not earn enough to keep its old ships operating. That's why the beloved Prinsdam was retired.

Hence, the topic of this thread. HAL will need to replace its aging fleet because of rising costs, changing tastes and tighter regulations. Post-covid, CCL seems to be re-organizing itself. Regrouping around its core biz; cheap and cheerful Carnival Cruise Line. 

What about the smaller brands? Carnival is the first recipient of next-gen technology because it is expensive. Therefore, cheaper per capita to install in the largest ships. When will it arrive at Princess and HAL?

Will will it mean if Princess gets next-gen and HAL does not? HAL could get the big diesel ships retired by Princess. In the long run, how many brands does CCL need today? Is there room for a struggling premium brand while the luxury industry is booming?

Stay tuned.

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

Let me know when that happens. We just got off a packed 21-day NCL cruise for $8000. Our 14-day on HAL is $10,000. And that was for a Club Balcony on NCL.

 

If HAL's smaller ship is 30% more expensive to operate, it comes out pretty even? Was the entertainment better on NCL?

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Let's talk again when HAL is slashing prices to fill ships -- and other cruise lines aren't. Your perceptions might then have a leg to stand on. At the moment, in my opinion, your perception of HAL is about as useful as a two-legged tripod.

 

A clear indication is when HAL fares are the same or lower than NCL etc. Who has the higher costs per pax?

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

 

Looks to me that your perceptions bear no resemblance to reality.

 

The reality is that CCL HQ can do whatever they like to the conglomerate. They have no loyalty to any customer base. Their concern is $$$$.

So watch what happens with ship movement. Who's getting the new builds, and who's not till 2030 and beyond. Whose ships are retired or transferred?

1 minute ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Affirmative, I am aware of the hybrid ships, but they can only cruise on battery for about 1/2 hr, so could not operate in the upcoming zero emission fjords.

 

The 2030 concept vessel will be entirely zero emission.

I will be onboard one of these ships soon. Will check on range and any plans for upgrades. A step in the right direction.

10 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Hurtigruten also has a zero-emission vessel planned for 2030. The concept was released last year and if memory is correct the concept is named Sea Zero.

Hx has this hybrid (with option of electric propulsion)...

https://www.hurtigruten.com/en-us/expeditions/ships/roald-amundsen/

Should CCL invest in this technology, I would expect Princess to get it first.

2 minutes ago, TRLD said:

34% of their capacity was added in the last ship class.

History is not a certain predictor of the future. The Pinnacle ships were built before the covid crisis! You're assuming that there will be the mythical "Neptune" class.

But what is CCL doing today instead. Just 2 more Excel ships for Carnival. A bunch of ships being transferred from minor brands. There would be no doubt if HAL has to transfer ships to Carnival too. ❓

8 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Except HAL is not being down sized. It's last class increased its capacity it quite a bit  Expect new capacity will continue to be added faster then retirement with the next class.

 

With very small number such as explora has rounding does through them off a bit.  If you go another significant digit they are around .16.  With 6 still less than 1 percent of passengers.

Yet, HAL and CCL have not announced any additions to the fleet. Unless, you have inside info?

Luxury brands don't care about % of total cruise pax. That's the concern of mass carriers like Carnival and NCL. Luxury brands care about the $$$ that will buy champagne, fillet mignon and seafood. To hire staff and promote the brand in luxury media. 

Sorry. I can't allow myself to indulge in escapism. From the recent announcements, its obvious that CCL group is regrouping around their core business; Carnival cruise line. Obvious that they're going to concentrate their little financial resources to prepare Carnival for the new age. That's also where their core competence is.

Pretty consistent with what I have been saying. CCL needs to rationalize the number of brands they have. For example, NCL just has 3 brands (mass, middle, high). 

The question for HAL, P&O and Costa is how small will CCL be willing to shrink them, before calling it a day. ❗

1 hour ago, TRLD said:

Explora like most others in the luxury range is running less than 1 percent and will be there even with their new ships.

 

Sorry. You did mention in post 231 that Explora had 0.2% of pax. That's only one ship. Assuming the same pricing as Regent (luxury category), that would be 1% of revenues. With six ships, I'm sure that MSC expects maybe 6% of revenues. Clearly, a bigger operator than HAL which is being downsized.😒

I'm happy to help you with the numbers!

Looks to me that HAL is fading into insignificance. Disney with just 5 ships in operation (and three more coming) already overtakes HAL in total revenues. Explora will have 6 ships (like Regent) and will likely close on HAL. 

In addition, HAL's closest competitor (Princess) is already significantly larger. IMO, concerns about HAL is valid. Unless HAL has new-builds or transfers, the fleet will shrink as retirements must take place. ❓

41 minutes ago, santos949 said:

I loved 6016 on our first Explor cruise and I have requested it for our next cruise.  For our third cruise 6016 was not available.  The location is fantastic!

Ohhh! That's a surprise?

What do you like about 6016? The view? Near the elevators?

I found that the mid-ship location was closer to the buffet and restaurants.

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

First, everyone complains about the cutbacks that HAL has made in order to repay the debt load incurred by covid, but then folks ask why HAL won't invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a new ship.  That level of investment puts even more stress on their profit margin, at a time when they can't afford it.

Just a clarification. An expensive debt load will increase expenses and reduce the bottom line. However, new investments don't necessarily reduce the bottom line. It all depends on the price of the cruise fare, the operating cost and the effect on operating profit.

A new ship that reduces operating cost by 30% will go a long way to pay for its costs. A new ship that generates higher cruise fare and lower operating cost is a good thing.

The problem for CCL, HAL and the industry is that the industry has too much capacity. Resulting in fares lower than ideal. That's why the industry continuously launch new ships with more Wow factor. To bring customers back for more, and to draw customers from competitors.

The risk for HAL is that the fleet will get smaller, and the brand becomes cheaper until it is irrelevant. Will HAL still be recognizable in 5 years time?

Don't forget that the Norwegian fjords and other destinations are imposing restrictions on diesel ships. Quite possible that HAL's diesel ships in 10 years time will be restricted only to large cities and transoceanic voyages. 

16 minutes ago, Dean said:

I would appreciate hearing from others before we sign up for the 3/24/25 cruise out of Miami.  It is difficult to separate the pros and cons of any new ship. we are looking for a luxury experience on the Explora 1.  Will we be disappointed? 

 

Dean

Yes, you may very well enjoy a luxury cruise with EJ. There is the excitement of a newly built ship, and the possible pitfalls of a new organization. My review...

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/3008457-yet-another-explora-1-review

Bear in mind that I'm somewhat blase, and at my age I don't gouge myself.

The price is right. Of course, you know best what your preferences are. We'll be happy to help if you have specific concerns. Just start a new thread for your queries. 👍

2 hours ago, uktog said:

Interesting having given feedback to the former manager at Azamara now in a senior leadership role I found someone extremely willing to listen and react. As an example the opening and closing hours of a venue were altered and our room steward was changed 

Yes, that is within her power to do.

To be fair, here are the virtues of the person you are so enamored of. Conscientious, nice, and the rare ability to listen.

25 minutes ago, uktog said:

Thank you for clarifying - I would agree you suffered from less than perfect service... 

I hope you shared your findings with the appropriate managers

Explora Journeys is in the hospitality biz, not transportation like container ships. In small family-owned Europeans inns and hotels, they'll greet you with a smile, “Welkom!!!” They may not be able to improve the heating, if you have a complaint. But, they'll provide you with extra blankets etc.

IMHO, Explora 1 is not a threat to the established luxury brands. Hopefully, Explora 2 and 3 might do better.

As others have discovered, there's not much point complaining to hotel management. Their reply might be “Work in progress!!!”. Or, “I've spend 15 years in Azamara!!!”