Davitur

Are the movies free?

Ship Flicks and the movies in the Wajong Theater are free. I haven't been one one of the updated ships yet, but my guess is the movies would be free on those as well. You can even grab a small bag of free popcorn just before the movies are shown in the Wajong Theater each day.

So, I spent quite a few years in the photo printing industry. The "cost" of an 8x10 sheet is relatively inexpensive , even on the machines they run in the backroom of the ships. What you are paying for is the photographer's skill in composing the photo and getting the lighting right. Is it overpriced? You bet. But enough people pay the price to keep them in business. I've purchased a few shots when we were next to a glacier with very difficult lighting. The pictures looked great and turned out much better than the ones I took, so I paid the money. That's why I let them take the pictures around the ship - you never know when they will catch that one perfect "Kodak moment".

Would agree with most of your analysis but HAL did full transits with their larger ships this year, Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam?

You are correct, HAL does do PC "repositioning" cruises when moving ships to and from the Pacific for the summer Alaska season (HAL uses a lot of ships in Alaska during the summer that they don't need on the Pacific side during the winter). In addition some Grand and collectors cruises may have a PC segment. All the HAL fleet with the exception of the new Pinnacle class will fit through the older PC locks.

Besides those repositioning cruises they usually have had a dedicated ship do the 14-day full transit from San Diego to Fort Lauderdale (and reverse) the whole winter season. Repositioning cruises are only available in the spring and fall (usually April & September).

My assumption is that HAL would struggle to fill a Vista class to do the 14-day runs and that's why they have been using the S-class in the past.

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My assumption is that Cuba has thrown a wrench into the 2018/2019 HAL cruise schedule. Typically HAL uses smaller ships for the PC full transit run and uses the Zuiderdam (Vista Class) for the 10-day taste of PC round trips to Florida (just goes in and then back out of the Gatun locks). With Cuba's current infrastructure the smaller S-class (R-Class as well?) ships are better suited for those Cuba port visits. (Also factor in that prices for Cuba will not need to be discounted much - so Cuba will be a higher-profit cruise for HAL).

In my opinion, they were most likely planning to sell off the last two S-Class (Veendam & Maasdam) prior to Nieuw Statendam hitting the fleet in December 2018. Now with Cuba opening up, my guess is the sale of the two S-Class are now on hold as they are optimal size for Cuba until the infrastructure in Cuba can be upgraded by Carnival Corp...so now they have to decide whether or not they are going to commit a larger ship to do full PC transits (R-Class or Vista).

Just my $0.02 and speculation...

Was the ship decorated for Christmas and did you see any fireworks from the ship?

We did the full transit over the Thanksgiving holiday. Christmas decor started going up the Friday after Thanksgiving ("Black Friday"). The ship was fully decorated a few days after that. On our itinerary we were out to sea before nightfall on every port...so not sure how much fireworks you would see from 10-20 miles off shore...

Been on the Veendam twice, with the second trip just 6-months ago. While she doesn't have that "new car smell" that some of the super-ships have, she is none the less a pleasant ship for those that like upscale cruising without paying the upscale price. I would sail on her again given the chance.

However, I'm not sure that I will get the chance to again before she gets sold off to pay for the Nieuw Statendam in 2018 (speculation).

With Alaska you have to expect anything. It can be hot, cold, or somewhere in between. We've been several times and had lots of rain and no-rain. We've had really warm days and very bitter cold days. One consistent is when they stop the ship next to the Glaciers (depending on your itinerary) it can get a bit cold. Evidently wind and a 30-mile long ice cube can chill things down a bit. Layering is great advice. Don't forget rain gear, Juneau and surround area is part of a temperate rain forest.

Bring binoculars or a camera with a good zoom on it (or both). There is amazing wildlife and scenery in Alaska. I go back over my pictures that I've taken and tell myself, "Yeah, I was really there." Sunscreen and insect repellent is always smart to pack. HAL used to have a "what to pack" section for Alaska, you may want to check that out.

Last of all, bring your curiosity and have fun!

Silversea is harvesting from a very specific portion of the marketplace; they're not aiming for the core of the mass market, but rather those with significantly more wealth. It's a valid business model for a cruise line that has fewer berths across all its ships than there are on the ms Konigsdam all by itself.

I agree with this. Silverseas is targeting a premium (aspirational) demographic with a desire to cruise and the means to do it in style, which right now living in that Baby Boomer age group. Many millennials right now are dealing with children and contemplating sending their children to college. If they are looking at cruises, they are looking at Disney or one of the mega ships. Why cruise Silverseas that costs 2x the price of Disney and you still have to deal with your children??

What I find interesting is the obvious omission of the smaller demographic that lives in-between boomers and millennials. Gen X has 62 million people between 37 and 52 who grew up watching "The Love Boat" and is now in a segment of their lives that they can finally start doing things like cruises without worrying about their kids. From a marketing standpoint Millennials and Boomers are larger populations...but there is one population ripe for the picking... Gen X.

We visited those ports back in November when we did a Panama Canal full transit on the MS Veendam.

Puerto Caldera (Costa Rica): Our ship stopped at Puntarenas which is near Puerto Caldera. Its a quaint fishing town. Most of the ships passengers took busses out to zip lines, jungle canopy options, or even the big trek into San Jose. We just visited a local church (it was Sunday) and then went back to the ship. If you are going soon, you may want to avoid San Jose because traffic has been especially difficult in the city with two major bridges out for construction. I was in San Jose last month for business and a 3 mile trip took almost 45 minutes because of traffic. That being said, Costa Rica is a beautiful place and nearly anything you do will be great. There is not a lot to do near the cruise pier, so you will want to take a cab or excursion.

Corinto (Nicaragua): We took an excursion up to Colonial Leon and bubbling mud pots. The mud-pots are on an area of land about half the size of a football field. It is similar to what you may see in certain parts of Yellowstone, only there is not as much mineral rounding (and coloring) that you would see in Yellowstone. It is literal bubbling mud-pots. The locals will try and sell you a bag of mud from the pits (good for the skin, they say). The walking tour around Leon was nice and we were able to visit the Cathedral Basilica which was really nice. They even let you climb up the narrow staircases that lead up to the roof and you can walk around the roof in your socks (no shoes allowed on the roof). Great views of the city as well as the volcano's in the distance. As what has been mentioned in the past, Corinto is a working port so not much to do or see immediately around the port.

Puerto Quetzal (Guatemala): We had left over ship board credit and used it to purchase the "on your own in Antigua" option. The ship bussed you to and from the old capital city of Antigua, and then you have several hours to do whatever you want. There are a lot of interesting places to go and see. We walked around town, saw the Arch, but couldn't go through the big Cathedral because it was closed for the day. We did find a museum and saw a bunch of local art as well as a Pablo Picasso exhibit. Be aware that Antigua is about 5,000 feet in elevation (similar to Denver), so you are driving on a bus from sea level up to the elevation which can bother some people. It was overcast the day we were there, but on clear days you have great views of three Volcanos that surround the city. The cruise port has a large tourist shopping center attached to it - so no need to go into town to do souvenir shopping -- and they take US cash.

On a side note, if you have the cash and the time - many cruise lines will offer a trip in Tikal. If your interested Mayan ruins, Tikal should be on your bucket list. We haven't been yet, but hope to in the future.

Puerto Chiapas (Mexico): The port here is a small 10 shop inclosed "mall". Once you leave the port area, there are places you can book private excursions to mostly to Tapachula and Izapa (Mayan Ruins). We booked an excursion to Izapa to see not only the main site, but to visit two lesser sites at Izapa (Zone A & Zone B) to see the different Stela and artifacts. There are nicer Mayan ruin sites on the Caribbean side, but this site wasn't that bad. Lots of chocolate production in the area, so many tours include a chocolate factory of some sort.

Anyways, hope this was of help!

...Marketing on the other hand has a little more to prove (and a harder time of it). Having done the development of many web sites I've gotten to work with a lot of marketing people and sometimes they made changes just for the sake of change to "keep things fresh" and "the old site looks tired and dated".

 

As far as a HAL Internet Explorer bias... just what you would expect in Microsoft's backyard. :rolleyes: Way too many ex-MS developers around Seattle.

There are multiple reasons why they might be biased towards MS products & platforms, but even Microsoft has discontinued IE and is moving towards Edge. As the site matures, you will see more compatibility with other mainstream browsers...especially if they are truly going to a mobile presence (see below).

I think more are what we are witnessing is the blending of a "mobile" and "desktop" website experience. [Think Microsoft "Metro" tiled interface launched (and failed) with Windows 8.0] Marketing is telling headquarters that everything needs to be mobile now - that Millennials do more with their phones than with regular computers. If you want to capture that segment, you have to "be mobile". (They have been beating this drum at my employer for the last 5 years)

HAL is trying to redefine itself (e.g. Pinnacle Class 1 & 2), as well as trying to skew younger in its overall demographic (but still keep its refined roots). Millennials are always connected and want Internet everywhere. Thats why Seattle experimented with a new internet provider service for the World Cruise (unfortunately that failed miserably). They want those 30 something successful people who live on their phone, but want something better quality than a "fun-ship" cruise.

People who have a good experience with HAL typically come back. If you can hook a 30 something on cruising your line - you can have a customer for the next 40+ years (it may not be an "exclusive" relationship, but hey they are Millennials).

Anyways, just my $0.02...

Dave

Can anyone give me tips on how to price out a specific cruise on HAL's site? I'm especially interested in knowing what the charges are for 3rd/4th passengers for a specific voyage. Before the site was redesigned a few years ago, I could get a total and itemized price without putting in passenger information. Now even after typing in all the passenger info, I just get a total without itemization. I find this quite frustrating since HAL advertises "FREE or Reduced cruise fare for 3rd/4th guests!", but don't tell you which voyages it applies to and what the reduced fares are.

 

Do I just need accept having to enter all information and then back-calculate from the total price to figure this out?

If you do find a better method I would love to hear about it. I used to do what you are describing all the time until the web site redesign (still hate it - do you hear that HAL?). We have a PCC and so we did end up calling when things got too complicated with all the different promo's, etc. That being said, when I get desperate enough I do open the site and create fake bookings to try and pry the 3rd & 4th passenger information out of the site. Generally the same offers are available whether you are a Mariner or not from my experience.

Signing in seems to just flags your PCC (if you have one) to call you the next day and ask you about your booking. My wife has gotten several calls from our PCC with them starting out the conversation "...so it looks like your husband has been checking out bookings again, anything I can help with?"

Our PCC has been awesome and has helped us with several cruises for us and some of our friends. But when you "just gotta know" how much the 3rd/4th passenger is at 2am, the PCC cant help you then...

I received the survey as well. The interesting thing I found of note was that it went to an e-mail account that I have that is not linked to my regular Holland America account. So they were not looking for my opinions as a past HAL cruiser.

My guess is that they are updating their market research for the new build because the previously obtained market research is not giving the exact results they were expecting on Koningsdam. They want to ensure they are right before committing to specific designs on Nieuw Statendam.

Just kidding, we sail on the Excastcy on Friday. We don't vape, we can afford to buy our drinks, and always prepay our tips when we book , and leave extra if the room steward is nice. Very excited, Looking forward to a weekend get away with my hubby. This makes cruise number 4 on Carnival. I might want to try a more upscale cruise line next time any suggestions?

It really depends on what you like to do on ship, and where you want to go. What is it about Carnival that you like, and what do you dislike? Each cruise line has its own niche. I like Holland America (because it is more quiet), and I have friends who swear by Royal Caribbean. Do you research, and whichever one you choose...remember to have fun!

I believe they are required to take a minimum number of pictures per day. A number of years ago, a young girl on this forum was trying to get a job on a cruise ship. She was finally accepted by Carnival in the photo dept., and went for orientation. She sort of blogged while she was in training. She didn't last more than halfway through, and she reported that she was expected to take at least 200 pictures a day. EM

The "quantity of pictures quota" wouldn't surprise me because the first step in hooking a customer is taking their picture. The more pictures they take the more chances of getting you to be their customer. You can't sell a picture you didn't take.

There is a lot of natural waste in photo production. I used to be in the photo processing business - it has huge profit margins. Especially when you start talking 5x7 or 8x10 prints - the staple of the cruise ship industry. An 8x10 uses the same supplies/costs as three 3x5 prints (5" paper rolls), which most labs can sell for a profit at 8-10 cents retail price each. They could make a profit selling the 8x10 for 50 cents. They make a killing if they sold them for $5. The cruise ship wanted $30 for an 8x10 "sheet". They sell one print sheet out of 60? They come out ahead.

Some friends of ours bought a couple of prints from the photo lab because the photographer took some awesome pictures with very difficult lighting. Sometimes the value is more than the price...

Evening Davitur; my guess, and it's a guess only, is that HAL will put out either a press release and/or an entry in their blog when the new ship's keel is laid, after 1st steel, the next milestone. The same (blog entry) was done for NADM in March 2009. Don't forget also that the delivery of the 1st Pinnacle was moved back from Fall 2015 to FEB 2016 which means there will be extra time applied somewhere during the building process. With all that, I don't believe the keel has been laid yet

Thanks again! We will keep an eye out for either a PR or a blog entry in the future.

Sorry my friend Typhoon but that is incorrect; the cutting of the first steel plate for the (Pinnacle-class) ship took place on 05 FEB of this year. Cutting steel occurs before any keel-laying

 

Stage 2

 

... It takes 4 months from steel cutting to keel laying of the vessel.

 

Copper,

Thanks for this insight. In your description you mention 4 months from "steel cutting" is when they typically lay the keel. Is 4 months from when they start cutting steel (Feb 05) or from when they finish cutting steel (unknown)?

If hypothetically from the start, could the keel already be in place because we are 5 months from the start?

The HAL ships that use Vancouver, BC as (Alaska seasonal) home port depart the always nice city of Vancouver, sail underneath Lions Gate and into English Bay/Burrard Inlet, then NB Strait of Georgia, Seymour Narrows, Johnstone Strait, Queen Charlotte Strait, leaving Vancouver Island behind and into Hecate Strait for either Tracy Arm/Juneau or Ketchikan

Copper, what time does Vancouver departing ships usually hit Seymour Narrows? Is it usually still daylight or is it after dark?

Thanks in advance!

None of us outside HAL or Fincantieri (sp?) know for certain, of course, but artists renderings seem to show one additional full deck, and 400 more passengers than a Vista require 200 more cabins. It definitely will be wider (new Panamax) but still to add 200 more cabins and the promised new restaurants in the same number of decks would take some doing IMO.

 

Besides, from what the article said about channel width and turning basins in Tampa, longer and wider could be as much of a problem as height.

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Looking at the renderings on this site (and who knows how accurate they may be), it looks like there are five veranda decks above promenade. If that is true (a big supposition), it may not be much taller than the other Signature class ships. Also, widening the ship by 35 feet alone could possibly get you another 80 inside cabins as well as a couple more aft veranda cabins per "cabin" deck.

As you conclude, it may still be limited by the turning basins as well. A well, at least the Vista's should still fit in Tampa...

Dave, you are aware that everything you read/see on the internet is true? You can't put anything on the i-net that's not true.;):D

If I had a dime for everyone who came to me with something because of the "proof" they found on the internet... :) For kicks and giggles when I have the sniffles I google my symptoms to see what bizarro rare disease is going to kill me now.

Some of my reply is based on experience but I'm not a mariner or engineer, but practical... and some of the reply is based on the good ol' internet:).

That's good enough for me!

Take the Z'dam for example, to me it appears to be at 170' according to those diagrams and some of the Vistas are actually a little shorter than that. The bottom line (or perhaps the upper limit) I believe the Vista class can fit.

That's good to hear that HAL can sail its newer ships into Tampa (if they wanted). I sailed out of Tampa on the NCL Star and looking at the specs it looks like the Z'dam is a similar sized ship.

Are the Vista class ships too tall for Tampa?

Wikipedia (the internet's bible :rolleyes: ) claims that Vista class ships are "Panamax" which means no more than 190' of air draft (vertical above the water). So on paper it would fit with 3' to spare +/- for tides.

I also would be interested to know from one of the more practical experts (real engineers and/or mariners) to know if the Vista's are actually short enough to go under the bridge.

I had assumed it was a HAL requirement, it just struck me as odd.

 

Yes, someone could hack your email account but it's not that common and where would we be if we all refused to use email for commerce?

Yes, e-mail is more susceptible to some sort of 3rd party snooping - however by HAL's request all account numbers should be redacted prior to sending so it is somewhat moot.

My guess is that they chose to use fax in order to "slow the flow" of people asking for the benefit. In addition, the e-mail address was publicly advertised making it a prime target for ship loads of spam. Spam filters were probably killing legitimate requests so the World Cruise Reservations department was spending way to much time looking at bad e-mail to find the few good ones.

Only people "truly" interested in it and committed are going to find the way to fax it in. And as anyone knows with a fax machine, the only fax spam you get on an open fax # is discounted cruise and vacation offers... :)

That may be possible, but it's not what the industry is building. Everything is going both wider and higher, like HAL's Pinnacle Class under construction.

Do we know that it will be "higher"? From what I recall reading about the new build it would be wider...but I didn't remember them saying it would be higher. More berths might = higher, but then again it just may be longer and wider (New Panamax). HAL likes to be able to bring the ships through the canal to shift the fleet between Alaska in the summer and the Caribbean in the winter -- so the new build should fit through the new locks (if too big for the old locks).

The reported vertical clearance on the Bridge of the America's is 201 ft. The Sunshine Skyway's vertical clearance is 193 ft. -- so the new build depending on its final specs may still be able to due Tampa.

Reading through the article, it appears a new port would be the best option if they wanted to keep the cruising business that supported "mega ships", but Tampa may want to change its business to more "boutique" (smaller) ships.

A better look at fuel costs: Wikipedia (I know) claims Amsterdam burns 140mt of fuel per day at 21 knots. A little research on my part, and this number holds up pretty well (perhaps a little conservative, but I'll give HAL this one). Today's bunker fuel price is $580/mt (average), so for every sea day, the ship will burn $82,000 in fuel, or nearly double the cruise watch figure. Theirs is an average, including port days, but a sea day intensive voyage like this would be closer to my figures, so there goes $30-35k of your profit. And fuel prices will only continue to rise.

 

Also realize that a voyage of this type requires storing at various places around the world, so the ship cannot take advantage of the bulk discounts most ships get from vendors because they are placing huge orders every week. And in some locations the Amsterdam would be taking huge amounts of supplies from the local economy, so a premium price would be paid for food.

 

Most cruises cover the overhead with cabin prices. Profit generally comes from onboard revenue only. I assume that HAL would adjust the price on select cruises like these Grands to ensure a better profit, but I don't believe they would be making more than 10% (at the very best) before onboard revenue.

You bring up some good points. I hadn't thought about the non-standard supply costs created by the World Cruise. I'm not emotionally tied to any of the numbers. Just trying to do the math to see financially what a World Cruise might mean in revenue & profit.

An interesting thing to note while running the numbers is that if they are unable to fill the ship, that profit drops pretty rapidly as a lot of the costs are fixed. For example, lets say they sold all the rooms *except* the "A" and the "SA" groups, and ran those empty (or upgraded others and left the lower areas empty). That would cost them $12m in revenue and make the cruise unprofitable.

If they do end up canceling a World Cruise it would be because they couldn't get the price they needed, couldn't fill the ship, or both. Ah, the economics of a "for profit" business...

Does anyone have any numbers, or even an educated guess, indicating whether or nor HAL actually makes money from the Grand Voyages?

 

Following Captain Mercer's blog during the just completed GWV on the Amsterdam, he listed the amount of what just the fuel costs were.

 

With the problem reported by some of the GWV passengers regarding the internet, I'm sure there were concessions made by HAL, thus some of that income was negated.

So, after looking at 2015 World Cruise (114 day) prices and counting up all of the different rooms on the Amsterdam, here is some *very* fuzzy math:

* Double Occupancy, all rooms filled, full 2015 114-day rate:

$47.0m gross revenue total ($412k / day)

* Cruise market watch claims fuel is $220/pax/7-day cruise (2014). Extrapolating:

$4.9m total fuel costs ($43k / day)

* But lets ignore that, that same site says the total expenses (including fuel) for the "average" 7-day cruise is $1,535 per passenger. Extrapolating:

$34.5m estimated expenses ($302k / day)

* Estimated Profit of World Cruise

$12.5m estimated profit (26.6% margin) - $109k per day.

This of course ignores everyones bar tabs, etc...

Zaandam Alaska 7day Vancouver round trip

How valuable is Upsell from Ocean View to Vista Suite?

Room same size, no real perks, can't smoke cigars from balcony.

Sailed Maasdam to Canada was happy with views deck side.

Worth $100 per day?

Any reason to upgrade? Thanks for help.

BW

Is that $100 per person per day, or is the room $100 more per day (double occupancy)? My assumption is the latter. So that would be $700 more than your ocean view. Looking at it from a purely monitory view:

Right now HAL's site has an HH ocean view at $599 per person for Zaandam (May 30th sailing) and $1099 per person for a BC. So with two people that is $1198 for the HH and $2198 for the BC. An HH+$700 is $300 off a BC rate, so not bad ($998 per person).

Now things are a little different if you had already paid up for a D ocean view at $869 per person ($1738). So the D+$700 is $2438 ($1219 per person) which is $120 more per person than the current rate for a BC. Now if they are upgrading you all the way to an "A" Vista Suite, the current rate is $1149 so the $1219 may not be much of a deal.

Granted the different dates and room availabilities change all sorts of pricing so you will need to see what the current rates are for your cruise to see if its a "deal" - bottom line is what is the balcony worth to you?

The views in Alaska are beautiful. Walking out on your balcony as you are sailing into Juneau is great - and you don't have to be "fully presentable" to go out on the balcony (bed head is A-OK). I've done Alaska with a balcony and without. I'd upgrade to a balcony, but $700 is more than what I would want to spend on an "upgrade" just for the balcony.

My $0.02 on the matter...